[quote]Hardasnails wrote:
Since all his parameters are in check I suspecting low cortisol levels are not causing the thyroid to be pushed into the cell since the ferritin is good that variable is rulled out. Correcting the adrenals will probably show the true hidden hypothyroidism when the thyroid levels in the blood drop. We also see this alot in people with food allergies as we well which he has some as well as potential hidden infections that are lowering the cortiosol production. Secondary hypothyroidism due to adrenal insufficeny is what I am looking to potential cause. [/quote]
So HAN, if low adrenals are the cause, how do you strengthen them so they will produce more cortisol?
which is mostly related to gut imbalances, food intolerance…
Also, is it not true that the increased metabolism due to TRT can further tax the already weakened adrenals?[/quote]
depending on the body chemistry one needs to support adrenals first and thyroid before implementing TRT in YOUNGER guys. Older guys we put them right on TRT and adjust there thyroid and adrenals later. We just want to get people feeling good. With younger guys we want to rebalance their body through identifying the cause and treating it then support hormone system with cortef, botanics, nutrition, clomid, thyroid and lifestyle changes have been the most successful in these cases.
To strength adrenals you remove the inflammation so body can heal and rebuild its cortisol reserves.
some take herbal supplements to stimulate cortisol production (with mixed results)
some go on hydrocortisone ramping up to 20-30mg daily to give their system a rest, and then tapering off after awhile to see if their system can pick up the slack. some have to stay on HC for life.
yes TRT can put more stress on already weakened adrenals and cause you to crash worse then before.
stopthethyroidmadness has some great info on adrenals.
you may some trandermal DHEA 15 mgs, but one needs to make sure the adrenals also have cortef as well to support low adrenal function. When given DHEa with low adrenals that are not supported can make matters alot worse, but again. One needs to look at the whole scenerio before making proper recomendations which dr’s rarely do.
DHEA-S=300 is not low and your issues are probably not a result of this. Hardasnails will probably comment further. Levels drop with age and at age 23, perhaps the levels could be better. You could try 25mg DHEA per day just to see if you feel any changes with that.
Met with the doctor last friday and discussed the labs listed above. He thinks the problem lies in my adrenals or thyroid but cannot be tested further until i get better (have mono right now). I have an intolerence to corn so he reccomended i cut it out of my diet completely. This is easier said than done because corn is in a lot of stuff but im doing my best. Since my dhea is low he recommended 15/mg day of transdermal dhea cream which I just got today. Additionally he recomenmended some fish oil tablets. He is confident I will feel a lot better if I cut corn (and its products) out of my diet and use the cream. So below is what I am taking everyday.
15/mg day of Life-Flo DHEA cream
10000iu vitamin d drops
3 Carlson Fish Oil soft gels with food
2 Uni-Liver/Beverly Hills Ultra 40 liver tablets with each meal
1 serving of Green Vibrance powder
Sulis Ultra multi-vitamins with food
wanted to stop in and give an update. I’ve been sticking the the regimen i posted above and been seeing some improvement which is nice.
I am now getting some nocturnal erections and have been dreaming which is really nice. I didnt list this as a symptom but i havent had a dream during sleep for a long time (or at least I didnt remember them after waking up). For the past couple weeks ive been dreaming and remembering them. Has anyone else here lost their dreams from these kind of problems?
Everything else is pretty much the same. Morning erections are either non-existent or week, tired during the day, etc.
I would have to say that the vitamin d and avoiding corn is helping the most. Avoiding corn is by far the most difficult task because corn and its products are in everything. I literally had to cut out 75% of what I normally eat. Also i can no longer go out to eat unless i get a salad with no dressing or something like that. also most alcholic drinks out of the questions which sucks because im only 23…
wanted to stop in and give an update. I’ve been sticking the the regimen i posted above and been seeing some improvement which is nice.
I am now getting some nocturnal erections and have been dreaming which is really nice. I didnt list this as a symptom but i havent had a dream during sleep for a long time (or at least I didnt remember them after waking up). For the past couple weeks i’ve been dreaming and remembering them. Has anyone else here lost their dreams from these kind of problems?
Everything else is pretty much the same. Morning erections are either non-existent or week, tired during the day, etc.
I would have to say that the vitamin d and avoiding corn is helping the most. Avoiding corn is by far the most difficult task because corn and its products are in everything. I literally had to cut out 75% of what I normally eat. Also i can no longer go out to eat unless i get a salad with no dressing. also most alcholic drinks out of the questions which sucks because im only 23…
Southpaw have you felt any better since cutting corn out of your diet? Are far as testosterone levels, prolactin, age, etc. we are in a pretty similar situation. My Uro wants me to go to an allergists to get a complete food allergy/intolerance work up. I’m really curious how cutting out corn has made you feel.
[quote]jrvswim wrote:
Southpaw have you felt any better since cutting corn out of your diet? Are far as testosterone levels, prolactin, age, etc. we are in a pretty similar situation. My Uro wants me to go to an allergists to get a complete food allergy/intolerance work up. I’m really curious how cutting out corn has made you feel.[/quote]
As stated above I am having some improvements. Three things primarily: nocturnal erections are coming back, I am remembering my dreams again, and it seems like I have more energy during the day. The rest of my symptoms are pretty much the same. Keep in mind I am still recovering from mono and on the protocol below.
Also I haven’t been in the gym since early August and lost about 7lbs from being sick. Saying that these improvements are just from eliminating corn from my diet alone would be a difficult statement to make (there are too many other factors). I am going to an allergist tomorrow to be re-evaluated for this allergy/intolerence. As seen above my corn allergy/intolerence is barely over the threshold so I am interested to see how much it is effecting me. I will post an update on that appointment. Below is my current regimen since i added a few things after discussing with my doc.
15/mg day of Life-Flo DHEA cream
10000iu vitamin d drops
3 Carlson Fish Oil soft gels with food
3 Beverly Hills Ultra 40 liver tablets with each meal
1 serving of Green Vibrance powder
Sulis Ultra multi-vitamins with food
50mg Vitamin B6 P-5-P before bed
30 mg Zince before bed
1 packet of Traceminerals powerpack/day to improve energy/mood
No corn or its ingredients (corn syrup, dextrose, and about 100 other things)
Wanted to stop in and give an update. For the second time this year I had a wet dream (last night) which surprised the shit out of me. I also had one 2-3 weeks after my varicocele surgery back in February. This must mean I am moving in the right direction.
I went to a well known allergist in my area today to look further into my corn allergy. It turns out I am not allergic to corn at all! The reason this showed up on my blood work is because corn is a relative of grass which I am allergic to. He ran all the corn tests he had and they all came back clearly negative. Hazelnuts and walnuts are the only foods I am allergic to so I will be avoiding them going forward. I have a very strong allergy to ragweed and varying allergies to grasses, trees, weeds, molds, dust, dust mites, cats, and mouse urine (yea idk)â?¦ The entire appointment was 3 hours and was very extensive.
The allergist doctor wants be to buy allergy safe micro fiber casings for my beds mattress, pillow, and box spring. Its a new bed and probably the best investment I ever made I am sleeping so much better now. Also he said air cleaners are worth their weight in gold for people with allergies like mine so I will be picking one of them up for my bedroom.
I will be sticking to the regimen listed above (minus the elimination of corn and its products) and hopefully be back in the gym next month (liver panel is still inflamed from mono I had back in August so I want to wait).
“varicocele”…Not to make light of the condition but this name has always reminded me of an Italian dish.
Good to hear you had a wet dream. Those are so awesome. I remember in my early 20’s having what seemed like 17 a night. Lots of laundry. I now only have them maybe once a year. I attribute that to possibly the SSRI I take.
hey guys it’s been a while just wanted to give an update. Not much of an improvement since last post… i think im over mono and back in the gym. My hands and feet are always cold in the winter and im trying to figure out why. Some google searches point me to hypothyroidism could this be a possibility for my with these labs?
Lancet. 1976 Mar 27;1(7961):653-5.
Reduced active thyroid hormone levels in acute illness.
Burger A, Nicod P, Suter P, Vallotton MB, Vagenakis P, Braverman L.
Abstract
In acute and subacute disease the active thyroid hormones, triiodothyronine (T3) and tetraiodothyroacetic acid (tetrac), are decreased while serum-thyroxine (T4) levels tend to be slightly reduced. Conversely, the inactive metabolite, reverse triiodothyronine (reverse T3), is increased indicating a diversion of T4 metabolism from an activating to an inactivating pathway. With convalescence the serum levels of T3, tetrac, and T4 recover while reverse T3 decreases to normal. These changes occur without significant alterations in serum levels of thyroid-stimulating hormone, indicating maintenance of euthyroidism throughout disease.
…
The morass of unguided tests to which the OP was subjected does not lead to a conclusion. He had mononucleosis; mono alters a bunch of stuff, for months. Labs taken out of context have no meaning; no…rather they lead to false conclusions. Like this entire thread.
i cite above a paper that is 34 years old. Soem old stuff serves as a lesson that what is “hot” now may be rejected in a couple of years. I cannot tell you how many times I had searched for “reverse-T3 thyrotoxicosis” before the universal acknowledgment that R-T3 is a meaningless sign of inflammatory disease. If you visit websites which say otherwise, beware.
(Oh, and I did see the high cortisols with normal ACTH. The OP does not have Cushing’s disease or a macroadenoma. He had mono. A random cortisol is not a sufficient test for most issues. Perhaps this one thing should be rechecked.)
(Oh, and I did see the high cortisols with normal ACTH. The OP does not have Cushing’s disease or a macroadenoma. He had mono. A random cortisol is not a sufficient test for most issues. Perhaps this one thing should be rechecked.)[/quote]
I was curious about this too. The labwork indicated am cortisol was sky high (27 on a 19 max range I believe). Why would this alone be indicative of adrenal fatigue? I don’t understand. Wouldn’t adrenal fatigue, at the minimum, manifest itself by low am cortisol? Unless there was a 4 sample saliva test showing a flatlined cortisol response throughout the day, I just don’t understand the diagnosis?
when your thyroid or testosterone, etc. get out of whack, your adrenals (i.e. - cortisol) try to compensate for their absence by ramping up production, but your body can’t maintain at that level so at some point they crash and your numbers drop drastically… that’s when ‘adrenal fatigue’ sets in.
someone with sky high cortisol without an underlying illness or other reason would be an indication that their body is making up for some other problem and that a crash is coming up at some point down the line. how far down? well that depends on how long your adrenals can handle last.
and as a side note I have high RT3 and feel so much better now that I am treating it with small doses of T3 only medication.
also I don’t think anyone here was telling him what treatment to take on his own… we were only trying to point out possible issues for him to discuss with his doctor, get the right tests, and then based on those tests and his symptoms have an appropriate treatment plan.
