Zeb,
It just seems odd to many of us, that were in the military, that there is a potential for getting hurt doing body weight pushups. My platoon in boot camp had 87 people in it. Not one got hurt doing pushups and we did them every day.
These weren’t just a set of 20, but to failure at different rates. Sometimes, it was as many as you could as fast as you can. Other times, you held the bottom position for several seconds before banging out several more at a fast pace and then going back to a hold.
Are you trying to say that this was just a statistical anomoly or is there something we are missing?
I’m not saying that if a group of 87 or 187 people do the same movement repeatedly that they will become injured.
My point is that the risk goes up. And in addition to that you are also courting longer term problems. The ones that don’t bite you until you are over 30.
Oh that’s right…you’re never going to be over 30 so you don’t have to worry about it.
Sorry.
[/quote]
Well, I was in the Marines as well, and although you did see alot of older SNCO’s with repetitive motion injuries of the knees due to all the running, I can’t remember even one person with a push up injury. Given that I was attached to a recon unit, we did more pushups than I care to remember. While this evidence is anecdotal, given that several other people have chimed in the same, I’d say the injury potential is low.
Zeb,
It just seems odd to many of us, that were in the military, that there is a potential for getting hurt doing body weight pushups. My platoon in boot camp had 87 people in it. Not one got hurt doing pushups and we did them every day.
These weren’t just a set of 20, but to failure at different rates. Sometimes, it was as many as you could as fast as you can. Other times, you held the bottom position for several seconds before banging out several more at a fast pace and then going back to a hold.
Are you trying to say that this was just a statistical anomoly or is there something we are missing?
I’m not saying that if a group of 87 or 187 people do the same movement repeatedly that they will become injured.
My point is that the risk goes up. And in addition to that you are also courting longer term problems. The ones that don’t bite you until you are over 30.
Oh that’s right…you’re never going to be over 30 so you don’t have to worry about it.
Sorry.
Well, I was in the Marines as well, and although you did see alot of older SNCO’s with repetitive motion injuries of the knees due to all the running, I can’t remember even one person with a push up injury. Given that I was attached to a recon unit, we did more pushups than I care to remember. While this evidence is anecdotal, given that several other people have chimed in the same, I’d say the injury potential is low.[/quote]
I wonder if it’s just the “magic” of the Push-up, or will that type of training work with everything?
Hmm…then if I did bicep curls each day there would be zero chance of repetitive stress injury, right? Same goes for Rowing, Deadlifting, Squats, Chinning…and just about everything.
Apparently, it’s okay to train Push-ups every day as no harm will ever come to your joints. I just want to know if this holds true with every other exercise, or if it’s just Push-ups.
You encounter a greater risk for injury when the ligaments and tendons do not have ample recovery, be it nutritionally, rest, etc. It’s not the motion or exercise that causes the injury, it’s the lack of recovery. Funny how old time strongmen used to do full body routines daily for years on end and nowadays we can’t seem to get past doing split routines for fear of overtraining. The key was not going to failure day in and day out thus allowing for more recovery. These men trained primarily for strength with hypertrophy as a byproduct. The hypertrophy they got was miofibrillar hypertrophy as opposed to sarcoplasmic hypertrophy which you see in bodybuilders.
So it’s all about goals. This guy wants to shed some bodyfat. So I would agree with what was previously mentioned, that it will not hurt doing them daily. I would agree that a Tabata protocol would be more beneficial compared to his “grease the groove” type modality as well.
Playing musical instruments
Walking for 4-8 hours a day
Breathing
Using jaw muscles for eating
Try to think of it in terms of doing endurance based work. Or volume vs intensity.
When you do Gym based exercises or sports, you are pushing your uper limits. Which is why you get injuries.
If I throw a basball as fast as I can, of course i’ll get a shoulder injury. If I try to bench 80-100 % of my 1RM every day, of course i’ll get injured.
But with pushups, your handling a weight that you can do for dozens, and in some cases hundreds of reps. In the milatary, they don’t bench 80 % of their one rep max everyday.
Like I said, it is not the exercise, it is that loading paramaters. The further away you are from your 1 RM, the more work you can do. A body builder might do upwards of 50-100 reps on one muscle group per workout. Many Powerlifters wont even touch 30 reps on a lot of workouts. For endurance work, your talking about 1,000 reps a day. Lance Armstrong, peddles a bike for hours on end. You can not squat 70 % 1 RM for hours on end.
I wonder if someone has ever done a study of injuries on endurance based athletes vs strength/speed athlets. I bet long distance walkers suffer MUCH less injuries then Short distance sprinters.
Example of myself. I work at a grocery store, and walk about6-9 hours a day. When I had to push in shopping carts, my knees might kill me if I was pushing in long lines all day (like lines of 30), or doing a little trot/joging with them to keep up. Just plaing walking NEVER hurts my knees.
As for Curls, Deadlifts, and squats every day.
Every time you shove food into your mouth, your doing curls.
Every time you stand up from a seat, your doing a box squat.
Every time you walk, your doing calf rasises.
Everytime you lean over to pick something up, even just change, your doign a deadlift.
OMFG you had better stopped living or you’ll get an repetative training injury.
A note on ligament strength vs muscle. It is not so much how strong your ligament is, it is how close to your 1 RM you are, or how much strain your putting on your muscles day in and day out.
When you do pushups, your only going to increase volume by way of reps / sets, your not going to increase the weight load in most cases. And even if you do, it is just in moderate amounts.
Basball pitchers for example try to move their arm upwards of 90 MPH day in and day out, weight lifters try to lift 70-100 % of their 1 RM day in and day out. That is more tension based stress.
Pushups? Your talking like 20-50 % of your 1 RM. So what if you do 200 - 1,000 pushups a day, at 25 % of your 1 RM. Even if you train to falure, the fatige stress is not heavy tension based, so much as exahsting the muscle without ever having heavy tension on it.
Chad Waturbery wrote an article about doing 100 reps a day with a light load to encourage muscle recovery. This is in addition to standrad weightlifting.
Zeb,
It just seems odd to many of us, that were in the military, that there is a potential for getting hurt doing body weight pushups. My platoon in boot camp had 87 people in it. Not one got hurt doing pushups and we did them every day.
These weren’t just a set of 20, but to failure at different rates. Sometimes, it was as many as you could as fast as you can. Other times, you held the bottom position for several seconds before banging out several more at a fast pace and then going back to a hold.
Are you trying to say that this was just a statistical anomoly or is there something we are missing?
I’m not saying that if a group of 87 or 187 people do the same movement repeatedly that they will become injured.
My point is that the risk goes up. And in addition to that you are also courting longer term problems. The ones that don’t bite you until you are over 30.
Oh that’s right…you’re never going to be over 30 so you don’t have to worry about it.
Sorry.
[/quote]
Zeb,
I’m 34. I don’t do push ups everyday any more. But for 3 months, I did. After that, it went to more of an every other day situation. Occasionally, I’ll do a short cycle (a couple of weeks or a month) where I do them every day but I change up the reps. Sometimes, it is just a max set and other times it is smaller units for multiple sets.
I don’t think anyone here has said that pushups can be done every day for life. The original poster asked if it was ok to do them every day while trying to meet a goal.
Many of us feel that is fine. Your argument is against something that I know I haven’t said.
You can not be injured from doing pushups alone. You could aggravate a previous injury.
a good improvement program is to set your watch on a 1 hour timer, at the end of every hour knock 20-30 pushups. Over the course of the day easily knock out 200-400 pushups, and you can always mix in diamonds, wide arms, dive bombers, elevated feet. blah blah ad nauseum
You encounter a greater risk for injury when the ligaments and tendons do not have ample recovery, be it nutritionally, rest, etc. It’s not the motion or exercise that causes the injury, it’s the lack of recovery.[/quote]
Well said. Exactly my point!
I agree the body can adapt. But you also know the other end of that don’t you?
The body adapts or it becomes injured. And I would also be careful about throwing around “old time strongmen.” As they had their problems as well. I don’t think it was in vogue to talk about your injuries back then. But anyone training the same muscle group hard every day will be in a higher risk bracket for injury than those who train more wisely.
I agree with you, I think not going to failure is an absolute must when you are training the same muscle group every single day.
There are plenty of ways to shed bodyfat without working the same muscle group, much less the same movement day in and day out.
In addition to avoiding the obvious (potential for injury) you also get to add new movements which will build other parts of your body at the same time you are shedding fat.
My daughter is a pianist. And at a very young age she started getting pain in two of her knuckles. She practiced everyday faithfully and became quite good and didn’t want to give it up.
I suggested she practice three days per week.
You know what happened!
No more pain in those two knuckles.
I’m not sure that anyone has experienced repetive stress injuries from walking. Although I’m sure if I dug up some info on google we might come up with some.
However, we do know that those who run everyday do experience problems …eventually.
[quote]Breathing
Using jaw muscles for eating[/quote]
Um…I’m going to forget you mentioned these two things. I’m sure that you know that these tasks are essential and the muscles involved are built to take everyday use…Breathing…lol
Yes that’s one way to get injuries. But simply because that’s ONE way to get injuries does not mean that there are not other ways!
Another example is my sister in law who enters volumes of computer data daily. She now has repetitive stress injuries to both wrists because of this.
I guess we were not meant to sit at a computer key board and enter data for 8 hrs per day. Just a tad different than…breathing…
Again, you are mentioning only one way to become injured…there are others.
But if you do those reps day in and day out, you increase your chances of injury. Don’t think because it’s bodyweight that this somehow magically prtects you. If you think that you will be in for the shock of your life someday.
It’s both and more!
Agreed, but that does not mean that you can do that work, as in the same movement repeatedly each day, day in and day out with no chance of injury. The more you do without a break the higher the chance of injury.
I bet you would be wrong! In fact, I bet that long distance walkers because of the nature of how they train and the specific motion used are good candidates for hip replacements after a certain age.
And you are what? Maybe in your 20’s?
I hate to break this to you but whatever you do now will effect you in some way 20 years from now.
That is not so say that you should do nothing, obviously. But you need to be smart in order to train a long time. Trust me, I’ve actually lived the experiment. Many of my friends who trained wrong 30 years ago, are now in very bad shape relative to their joint health.
[quote]As for Curls, Deadlifts, and squats every day.
Every time you shove food into your mouth, your doing curls.
Every time you stand up from a seat, your doing a box squat.
Every time you walk, your doing calf rasises.
Everytime you lean over to pick something up, even just change, your doign a deadlift.
OMFG you had better stopped living or you’ll get an repetative training injury.[/quote]
Um…you really are not understand this are you?
The exact same challenging motion (or not so challenging in some cases) performed every day, day in and day out WILL cause long term damage in many subjects.
The funniest thing of all is using push-ups to burn fat, much less to spot reduce fat from the pecs. We all know there is no spot-reduction, and it would take 30 minutes straight of push-ups without a rest to burn as many calories as a 10-minute jog, considering the significantly smaller muscle mass being used (chest vs. legs).
Tabata methods are great, but use them for improving anaerobic endurance and increasing glycolytic pathways and lactate buffering not for burning fat. Now do Tabata for 30 minutes straight and you’re burning lots of calories, but also crushing the nervous system day in and day out. Stick with more traditional cardio with some high intensity intervals for fat-loss.
As far as push-ups multiple times per day every day, that will build some great strength endurance, it obviously won’t increase your bench by 25%, the more you can vary your grips and positions the better the results and also the less chance for injuries over the years. Throw in some one-arm pushups which are also great for the core and leg adductors. Add some push-up and Rows with DB’s, rowing alternating arms at the top of each push-up. This will help to keep the back in balance with the chest, key in avoiding those long-term injuries.
[quote]BowFlexFan wrote:
A note on ligament strength vs muscle. It is not so much how strong your ligament is, it is how close to your 1 RM you are, or how much strain your putting on your muscles day in and day out.[/quote]
Wrong!
And proven wrong by those who have repetive stress injuries from playing the piano and enter data into a computer daily.
It’s the same motion repeated daily that can cause a problem.
And it’s the increase in volume which will ultimately lead to injury! Just as I pointed out earlier.
This is wrong in every way!
Your entire theory is based upon not going near your max. This makes no sense relative to the facts that we are already aware of.
Why would there be a term “repetitive stress injury” if there were no such thing?
Secretaries and muscians are not using anything near their one rep max. Yet, both groups, and many others, have repetive stress injuries. And the reason is performing the same repetitive task each and every day for a long period of time is a bad idea!
I think you can probably do almost anything for a short period of time and get away with it. Unless you are prone to having certain problems.
The Waterbury example in no way supports your claim that performing the same motion daily over a long period of time will NOT in fact cause injury.
I don’t think anyone here has said that pushups can be done every day for life. The original poster asked if it was ok to do them every day while trying to meet a goal.
Many of us feel that is fine. Your argument is against something that I know I haven’t said.[/quote]
I agree, in the short term, probably no problem.
But that doesn’t mean that there is not a better way to train.
The poster wants to shed pounds, keep muscle mass etc. And there are better ways to do it other than performing Push-ups daily.
Here is some interesting reading. Again, I do think that there are better ways to train when attempting to lose body fat and retain muscle, rather than performing Push-ups every day for even a short period of time.
However, over a long period of time you are absolutely courting disaster:
Repetitive stress injury happens when the same action is performed over and over.
-Performing the same action over and over can cause pain and swelling in the muscles, tendons and bursae (pronounced bur-say).
-Tendons are the strong flexible bands of tissue that attach muscles to bones.
-Bursae are small sacs filled with fluid that act as cushions between tendons and bones. Bursa is the name used to talk about just one sac.
-The pain and swelling of repetitive stress injury is called inflammation.
-The two most common types of
repetitive stress injury are tendinitis and bursitis. Tendinitis is inflammation of a tendon. Bursitis is inflammation of a bursa.
-It usually affects people over the age of 30. However, it can also affect younger people.
(Quick point, wear and tear build up over a period of time. It’s not something that magically happens to you when you hit 30 or 35.)
-It is more common in people who have jobs that require repetitive actions or that play sports.
Please don’t misinterpret my meaning within this thread. I am not posting simply to “be right.” Not that I have not done that in the past on other threads…especially the political ones lol.
I am simply trying to help many of you young guys avoid problems later in life. I’ve been there and I have seen it over a period of years.
I’ll shut up now and you guys can go back to doing your Push-ups everyday…but it will never be a good idea.
I don’t think anyone here has said that pushups can be done every day for life. The original poster asked if it was ok to do them every day while trying to meet a goal.
Many of us feel that is fine. Your argument is against something that I know I haven’t said.
I agree, in the short term, probably no problem.
But that doesn’t mean that there is not a better way to train.
The poster wants to shed pounds, keep muscle mass etc. And there are better ways to do it other than performing Push-ups daily.
There are really two issues here.
[/quote]
I think there are a couple of issues here. For one, the poster only wants to do this for 3 weeks (the time he will be without gym access). Are there better ways for him to accomplish this, sure. Is his method bad, no (at least not in my opinion).
It may do him some good to go to a bodyweight program. It could help expose some weaknesses he doesn’t know about. It could also allow him to use the 3 weeks as a form of active recovery.
So the question is, would doing his program for 3 weeks be a bad thing to do? (that was his original question)
You can make the case that too many push ups are dangerous, but compared to free weights, push ups seem pretty tame. Two or three military men on here said that they have never seen anyone get an injury from doing push ups. If you go to a gym I’m sure you could quickly find several lifters with bad backs and busted shoulders. I know ZEB wasn’t making a case for lifting, but I doubt he was making a case for inactivity.
I have been impressed by this generally civil and interesting conversation that the post has inspired. Great to hear some interesting thoughts from all of you.
To be a bit more clear, I’m not overweight at all. I’m at about 6’1, 180-185 lbs. So, I’m not trying to lose weight (I had been bulking for several months , in fact, until about a week ago) — I am just trying to tighten, harden, muscle-up my pecs! While some parts of my physique look good, my pecs just look a bit flabby and I hoped this might have an effect. I hope that acts as some clarification!
I ran across this article by Stew Smith, a former Navy Seal, who wrote a pushup routine himself. It sounds quite a bit like what I had designed, but his is a bit more organized than my own. Take a look:
"Below is the program that has helped people go from 50 pushups to 80 pushups in two weeks.
On ODD days: Do 200 pushups in as few sets as possible in addition to your regularly scheduled workout of cardio exercises. You can still do upper body workouts on these days if you are already on a program. This is a supplemental 200 pushups using maximum repetition sets (4 x 50, 8 x 25 … it’s your choice how you get to 200).
On EVEN days: Do 200 pushups throughout the day. This can be little sets of ten done every half hour or fifty pushups done four times throughout the day.
RULE: If your maximum is under 50 pushups, do 200 a day. If your maximum is above 75, do 300 pushups a day.
Repeat the ODD/EVEN routine for a total of 10 days. Then take three days off and do NO upper body pushing exercises that work the chest, triceps, and shoulders. Then on day 14, give yourself the pushup test (one or two minutes depending on your PFT). I would not recommend this workout more than once every six months, since it rather challenging on the same muscle groups repeatedly." (Source - Military Benefits News and Resources | Military.com)
Someone mentioned that he had done a Navy Seal routine himself. Is this the same one?
Good advice, gentlemen, on switching it up and doing close grips, triangle grips, wide grips, raised legs, etc… to keep my body guessing.
One question about this Navy Seal routine for those of you who understand it.
Does this mean on ODD days do 200 reps in as short a time as possible? I understand that I’m supposed to do a series of max sets. But is this like do 40, rest a few mins, do another 40, rest a few mins, do another 40, rest a few, etc…Or does this mean to do max sets spread out throughout the day?
