T Nation

My Posture


I know my physique (and my english) is bad - that’s because I’m just about to begin training after ~4 years of inactivity.
I know I should EAT.
I’m having problem deciding the posture problem I posess: posterior or anterior pelvic tilt?
Hope this belong to this forum and not beginners.
Any help is welcome

another one…

Mate I can sympathise with you wanting to be precise and stuff, I’m the same way. But I look better topless than you do, because of the following relevant advice

Your shoulders look hunched forwards. Do more rows and chinups. Focus on pulling your shoulderblades back and getting stronger at back-based exercises, especially compared to chest-based exercises. Beyond that, if you progress, over time it will work out lovely.

Your Stomach and lower back both look weak. I can’t comment about posterior/whatever. It would be the quickest way to resolve whatever problem you have if you do not overanalyse an imperfect situation you want to move away from. I suggest you do heavy crunches, supermans (look these up) and squat and deadlift until your performance improves dramatically.

You will have to be in a state of transition for a little while, but do not despair. The confusion and stuff that comes with fine-tuning like ‘posterior tilt’ and all that is not yet relevant my friend. You can and will improve if you do the simple things well.

Later on, after fucking years and years, the small details will make a difference. But for now, stronger back and legs is about all you need to really strive for. The rest should fall into place.

I recommend this

Thanks for the comment.

I understand what you say - and that’s probably the best thing for me : shut up and lift heavy.
I’m reading here for a long time and I like Cressey and Robertson stuff alot.
I don’t want to fall for the “perfect plan” pit.
I just wan’t to start right without aggravating the BAD situation any further.

Yea, my low back and abs are weak - and so is the rest of my body.
I’m just ~140-145 too.

I just want to lift heavy - but by this article guidelines:

So I need to know if to lift heavy hip/quad dominant.
Thanks again

Hard to tell with just one picture, but your hips look pretty good. Maybe a little anterior tilt. You don’t have any areas overdeveloped relative to an other. If you start a balanced program everything should fix itself.

To redress for my earlier non-reply-

I think you should do both quad and hip-dominant exercises, with squats done more often, since they add balance and not just strength. I’m quite sure that Cressey or MR would agree. You may just have bad posture. The situation those guys are talking about is when a significantly unbalanced strong muscle is pulling a weaker area out of place. That’s what their focus is. You don’t have that. Just more, is what you need (I didn’t say just fucking eat).

No offense mate but it looks like your legs would do with some exercise, and less discussion. No diss meant. Just positive, you can grow from wherew you’re at now, if you don’t fall into the pit you mentioned.

Do take an hour or two to look at the link I provided. If there is a ‘perfect beginner’s program’, that would be it. Good luck fella.

It’s good that you are worried about posture now. I definitely agree you just need to lift, but going not going about it in a half hazard way will pay off in the long run. Good thing is T-Nation is the place to get good info on such subjects. Here are some general points, from just looking at your picture. Don’t be fanatical about it, just keep them in mind.

-Rounded or protracted shoulders. Focus on horizontal pulls, both to the stomach and chest. Of course you will want to do vertical pulls (pull-ups) etc. but since the lats and TM internally rotate the arms this can create more problems with rounded shoulders. Don’t worry about to much, but you may want to include more HP than VP.

-In the first pics it looks like there may be some anterior rotation. Which means your hips and hams are weak and hip flexors are tight. In this case just stay away from any leg type abdominal moves and sit-ups (leg lifts hanging leg raises). Reverse crunches, t-ball crunches, planks, wood chops etc. are the way to go. In my opinion everyone should stay away from those, unless they are directly looking to hypertrophy the iliopsaos group.

Train logically, include some mobility and stretching, especially for the hip flexors, and anterior chest wall and you should fine. Good luck.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

I wouldn’t focus so much on your posture and just focus on hitting the weights hard and using the basic compound lifts. Once you get bigger and stronger, your posture will be fixed!!!

So, stick with upper/lower body splits or a full-body split and make sure you work the body in a balanced way with deadlifts, squats, rows, benches, overhead presses, chins, dips, etc.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I have taken the liberty of drawing some postural line on your photo. Just so you know, we need to see the feet, ankles and ears, to properly assess posture (from an image alone, which never tells a full story).

The black verticle line is the plumbline. The black horizontal line is your pelvic tilt. The white verticle lines indicate where the plumbline should be passing through your anatomy. The white curved lines indicate the excess curvature in your spine.

It would appear that your elvis is NOT tilted, but is actually quite neutral. Unless you specifically took the time to specifically place the waistband of your shorts perpendicular to the ground, of course…

Your knees and hips are forward of the posture line. This is called a ‘swayback’ posture. Simply concentrate on bringing your hips back slightly, when you stand. Unfortunately, this posture will cause you to have long, weak hip flexors, due to the increased hip extension (forward carriage without increased lordosis. Contrary to twhat the others are telling you, I advocate strengthening of the hip flexors, but take care no to do too much and end up with them shortened. That’s what I did through years of karate…

You have an excess thoracic kyphosis and cervical lordosis. Simply imaging a piece of string from the crown of your head, pulling you upwards and a book on your head which you need to push upwards, elongating your spine. Although you do appear to have slinght increase in lordosis, this is just from the anterior hip position, not from a pelvic tilt.

Another piece of the puzzle is your apparently weak/lenghtened transversus abdominus. Practice co-contraction @ 30% MVC during all movements.

Bushy[/quote]

Wow man that is a cool feature you have there. Where did you get that? Excellent points, and they are evident with the plum line. Great analysis, I agree.

My $0.02 (This based on 7 years clinical experience in a high volume chiropractic practice)
You do have an increased thoracic kyphosis but with the anterior head carriage, you have more than likely lost the normal cervical lordosis. The first picture you displayed shows what seems to be an anterior pelvic tilt. The second one seems like you don’t. Take the pictures from the side again and before you shoot the pic 1. close your eyes. 2. Nod your head up and down 4-5 times (shuts off the visual-cortical righting reflex) 3. Stand (with eyes closed still) in what you think is good posture - take the pic.
This will give you a more accurate idea of your posture.

Go see a corrective care chiropractor for an x-ray - more definitive for quantifying the postural faults.
Why?
As the c-spine stretches forward, the brainstem and spinal cord are stretched anywhere from 5-7cms. An increased thoracic kyphosis is associated with a higher mortality rate due to organ compression.
Get adjusted.
Focus on extension exercises (DL’s, Squats) and lower, middle trap strengthening exercises like Y’s, W’s, T’s and L’s.

Hope this helps
Dr C

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

Wow,
I couldn’t expect for better and more constructive criticism.
Alot of points to consider - will do.

I will take pictures with the method you recommended and post tomorrow.
This is really where my confusion arises - in some pictures it seems I have “neutral” alignment and in others anterior.
I’m bothering with this so much because I already have some problems -
my left anterior delts is hurting on certain movement(bench press etc…)
and I have the most tight hamstrings I have ever seen.
I really am amazed that they didn’t pull my head into my ass already.

Thanks guys,
I have taken the notes and I’ll post some better pics tomorrow.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
drc wrote:
My $0.02 (This based on 7 years clinical experience in a high volume chiropractic practice)
You do have an increased thoracic kyphosis but with the anterior head carriage, you have more than likely lost the normal cervical lordosis. The first picture you displayed shows what seems to be an anterior pelvic tilt. The second one seems like you don’t. Take the pictures from the side again and before you shoot the pic 1. close your eyes. 2. Nod your head up and down 4-5 times (shuts off the visual-cortical righting reflex) 3. Stand (with eyes closed still) in what you think is good posture - take the pic.
This will give you a more accurate idea of your posture.

Go see a corrective care chiropractor for an x-ray - more definitive for quantifying the postural faults.
Why?
As the c-spine stretches forward, the brainstem and spinal cord are stretched anywhere from 5-7cms. An increased thoracic kyphosis is associated with a higher mortality rate due to organ compression.
Get adjusted.
Focus on extension exercises (DL’s, Squats) and lower, middle trap strengthening exercises like Y’s, W’s, T’s and L’s.

Hope this helps
Dr C

Wow dude. I am all in favour of chiropractic (I am studying an Mchiro after all) but lets not be too gung ho about this.
Not gung ho at all. Just being clinically intelligent about by work up. IMO.

The OP is young and easily ‘retrainable’ in terms of his neuromuscular system. He doesn’t need a dose of ionising radiation just to identify what can be seen with the naked eye.

Here in the UK, we would call that bad practice, using unjustifiable hard radiation. I guess it’s different where you practice.

Wow! What are they teaching you there? (I say in jest) A full spine series uses about 1/200th of a dental series. I am not about the overuse of x-ray but seriously, the use of x-ray is safe. Safe limits are 1800-2000mRads / year. A full spine series uses about 7 mRads. Cost/Benefit ratio here. The information is invaluable. Maybe the guy has a tumor, infection, congenital block or Fracture we should know about before we move forward

Here’s more reason to say it’s safe to x-ray.
http://www.idealspine.com/pages/Biomechanics.swf
http://www.jcca-online.org/Client/cca/JCCA.nsf/objects/jcca-v50-3-172/$file/jcca-v50-3-172.pdf

Please provide evidence for your statement:

" An increased thoracic kyphosis is associated with a higher mortality rate due to organ compression."

You also say:

“As the c-spine stretches forward, the brainstem and spinal cord are stretched anywhere from 5-7cms.”

Dr Alfred Breig - Adverse Mechanical Tension in the Central Nervous System 1978
Dr Alfred Breig - Healing of the severed spinal cord by biomechanical relaxation and surgical immobilization Anatomica Clinica 1982; 4:167-81

Dr William Ruch - Atlas of Common Subluxations of the Human Spine and Pelvis
Here you can get yourself a copy here…

The spinal cord is attached inferiorly by the filium terminale. This allows for movement of the cord within the canal with normal anatomy. Hence the cord does not normally ‘stretch’ with forward head carriage and spinal flexion or extension.

ushy[/quote]

The dura connects a several points along the vertebral column. Some say only at C0, C1, C2, C5, S1-4 and The filum. Take gross anatomy and you will see that the darn thing attaches all along the column in most people.

Also, please justify why the patient should close his eyes. He does not walk, etc with eyes closed, so what is the value of eliminating the vestibulo-occular reflex?

Also, why would the patient need adjusting, unless he has fixations and/or restrictions?
Getting adjusted regularly minimizes subluxations (or fixations or restrctions or whatever you want to call them)…I am partial to the term subluxation. The guy clearly shows a postural fault. If after further examination, subluxations are present, (bio-structural analysis, spinal imaging, digital thermography, and surface EMG, maybe HRV)

I agree with having him perform extension exercises, but would it not be better to have him march on the spot for say 10 paces before taking the posture picture again?
That’s a good idea. Hey why not do both :wink: Totally “reset” the v-o reflex and get a better idea of posture.

B

[quote]Butchke wrote:
Wow,
I couldn’t expect for better and more constructive criticism.
Alot of points to consider - will do.

I will take pictures with the method you recommended and post tomorrow.
This is really where my confusion arises - in some pictures it seems I have “neutral” alignment and in others anterior.
I’m bothering with this so much because I already have some problems -
my left anterior delts is hurting on certain movement(bench press etc…)
and I have the most tight hamstrings I have ever seen.
I really am amazed that they didn’t pull my head into my ass already.

Thanks guys,
I have taken the notes and I’ll post some better pics tomorrow.[/quote]

Don’t mean for Bushy and I to hijack your thread.:wink:
As your head shifts forward your ant delts will go too and the thoracic kyphosis increases from T1-T4. Possibly a cause and effect relationship here. I would guess that 95% or people stay in a flexed forward posture most of the time (sitting, sleeping, standing, etc).

As such, we become tight, in the flexors of the body (hams, bicep, pecs, ant delts etc). Most weight lifters will favour their strengths and do lots for the front of the body and little for the back. This only exacerbates tbe problem. Hence why I say focus on extension exercises.
Dr C

Bushy,
Sorry man, Evidently I don’t know how to quote properly. The above post contains my references and responses.
Regards,
Dr C

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

Ok,
I took the pictures as you guys described - eyes shut, head nodding and the paces.
Just to make sure - when you say “in what you think is good posture” you mean my relaxed, as close to “natural” posture right?
or should I try to stand in good posture?
Anyway, here are the 3 pic’s that I took:


2: