T Nation

My Next Cycle, Open to Suggestions


Hey guys, just posting my next one. I welcome all educated critiques.

Weeks 1-16: Test Prop, 100mg ED
Weeks 1-16: Tren Ace, 50mg ED
Weeks 11-12 and 15-16: Clen (Haven't decided on dosing yet)
Weeks 11-16: Cytomel (Haven't decided on dosing yet)
PCT: Haven't decided yet, most likely just a good old nolva protocol

As you can see, the first 10 weeks are a bulk followed by a 6 week aggressive cut.

As of now, I stand at 6'0, 225lbs @ 12%


I'll be honest Joey..I don't like it.
1. I rarely see/understand anyone using a short estered product(s) for 16 weeks first off. That's just not necessary/logical, ime and imo. Hell of a lot of pins to serve what purpose for that length of time?

2; why on Earth would you bulk for 10 weeks, then immediately cut "aggressively"? That isn't sitting well with me either buddy, sorry.

Top that off with clen and cytomel...I don't know, I just don't see those things (all 3 points), being necessary or at least very well thought out. I see you gaining a decent amount of weight, and then you're going to drop the very weight you gained right away?

Let's rethink things a bit. I can see you might want a bit more weight at your height. Having said that though, at 12% bf, you would certainly "appear" to be larger and more muscular if you cut right now, with the appropriate anabolics to serve your cut to it's best potential, ie; lose very little muscle/lbm. If you dropped into single digits, you'd likely be happy with your look in the end, and be surprised at how "big" you look in the process as well.

Now, lets say fuck it, you def want to gain for 10 weeks. Why then is it imperative you choose prop for your test? I understand using ace as tren is tren, and that gives you the upper hand most def for any issues that could come up, though there again at 350mg/week, I find that unlikely to be anything you can't tolerate well. But the difference in bloat etc, from prop to enan/cyp in test is easily controlled by your preferred AI, this you know also. Masteron is your very good friend here as well. :slightly_smiling:
SO I'm puzzled my friend, lol.

I say, if you want to still do this bulk/cut, then why not run your test with a long ester, use prop in the first 2 weeks if you want to get the ball rolling, add in your tren whenever you want, though again 16 weeks is a long run of tren. I would add masteron which as most know compliments test just so damn well, including helping control your estro issues.

Fuck it, I'd run test enan at 750/wk, mast enan at 600/wk for 10 weeks.
Then if you still want to cut, just cut your cho levels way back, run your tren ace and drop your test to 500/wk. Adjust your AI if necessary, (likely less), and use your nutrient mgmt skills and cardio to lean the fuck out nicely, with the cmpds intact, you will keep a lot of mass still.

Sorry, not sure if this was a rant or advice...lol...
Kidding I hope this gives you a difft perspective though.

Let's toss around some ideas back and forth. The forum is alive and well as you know still, so you should be right as rain in no time.

How bout some more info/clarity now on your part buddy?



Well, you're right in that this is pretty reckless, and I know it's not that well thought out. I was sort of panicking on my time line for filling my frame further and subsequently leaning out to single digits.

I like the idea of starting with prop and continuing with enan. As far as the 11-16 cut goes, I'd like it to be as muscle sparing as possible, although I realize that goes against using cyto and clen. I may be able to drop the cyto, and use the clen and still spare the muscle. Not sure yet. As far as Mast goes, never tried it yet so no idea.

It's pretty late so I'll have more discussion with you tomorrow, I want this one to go well.