T Nation

My New Diet: Opinions?


#1

Hi everyone, I need some advices

I will finish JB get shredded diet in a few days. I went from 192lbs to 178lbs, almost all from fat. Now I am at 10-11% approx.
I plan to start a 4000 calorie diet right away, with a very approximate 40-30-30 %calorie spread Prot Fats Carbs . P+C breakfast, P+C Am snack, P+F lunch and all others snack. P+C after workout also. I never cheat. no supp and no pw drink. I need some idea how to make an homemade PW-drink too.

here it is

Breakfast P+C: 250ml egg white
250gram lowfat cottage cheese
500ml milk
2whole wheat toast
berries

AM Snak P+C:250ml/gr 1cup redkidneybeans
1tuna can
veggies in it
250 ml milk

Lunch P+F: 6eggs
150gr havarti cheese
spinach and onions

PM snack P+F: 1/2cup almonds
1/2 cupwalnut
100 gr of cheese with same profile as havarti
avocado

PW P+C: same as breakfast but with some low-fat yogurt with
some sugar added instead of whole wheat bread

supper: Salmon, Beef or chicken with vegetable (I cant calculate since it is the only meal I am dependant of my parents)

PM P+F nuts and cheese snack again

Total 320 gram protein
195 gram fat
140 gram carbs

approx 3800 cals without the supper. I am gonna eat like this every day. every.

I know it is recommend that for my weight I get 3600 cals. But from experience I didn't start to gain muscle under4000 cals as I walk a total of 15km per day from school to home

Considering I come back from a ketogenic diet, what do you think about that? I tried to split fat evenly but I dont think it is that much. I will miss Flameout

I dont know if it's relevant but here is my 1rm (before diet)
Bench 245 deadlift 375 fsquat 295

I hope this post is clear, not like those moronic posts from sniperfromhell or chickentuna lol. I hope i'll get some answer as it took some time doing this and making it spiffy enough. Thank you


#2

By “Homemade PW Drink” do you mean whole foods only or can supplements be used? I’m going to assume taht by homemade you mean you want an alternative to something like Surge where you can mix protein and carbs yourself for cheaper. While Surge is a great value, you can get good results from something simple like basic cheap whey protein with maltodextrin and or dextrose. Of course there are other whole food carb sources you can use. Whey is pretty much a must though. A great cost effective way to make your cheeap whey more anabolic is to add l-leucine powder.

Other than telling you which sites to get the stuff from for cheap, I don’t really know how to address this problem/question.

As for questions about yoru diet, for food choices it all depends on what works for you. The macros look reasonable. However, at 4000 calories, I feel that’s a little low for a bulk. It all depends on your level of daily exercise and non-exercise activity levels.

If you did the calculation accurately and are experienced with how much excess calories you personally need to gain muscle at an optimal rate then I have no specific quelms about your plan as laid out.

Just remember to adjust calroies weekly as your lean mass changes.


#3

Umm…4000 calories is low for bulk? In Precision Nutrition they recommend 3600 cals to gain muscle. I used to take 4500-5000 cals, but I was mixing fat+carb (half a bottle of PB and half a tub of cottage 2 times a day). needless to say I got fat very quickly.

For the whey, I live in a lost hole in canada, I cant get some whey at a reasonnable price. Lol, they sell this stuff 70$ for 2lbs. If I order it from T-Nation or any other site, there is crazy fees for the posting and taxes (the more your stuff cost, the more the fees associated. A real scam). So I need some real food that my parents pay for.

I heard some people take chocolatemilk as a pwdrink or stuff like that, I am not sure.


#4

The thing that’s not clear is exactly why you want advice.

If you want to gain muscle without too much fat, I do not see any way to achieve that without really good PWO nutrition. The PWO window is when you have the chance to stuff your muscles more and your fat cells less than usual. Without fast-digesting protein and an insulin spike, I don’t see how you’ll optimize the PWO window. Insulin spikes are easy to achieve with readily available foods, but fast-digesting protein. . . Your breakfast without the bread is still not even close to ideal. Cottage cheese – casein is a slow-digesting protein. Eggs are slow to digest, IMO. Berries are high in fiber, low-glycemic, low insulin. Not good for PWO.

Chocolate milk is probably better than any of these others. I also think that flaky white fish digests more quickly and easily than other proteins, and it also raises insulin more than many carb sources do. So I would also try eating a boatload of flaky white fish (like cod, tilapia, etc) and maybe some jellybeans (huge insulin spike). No veggies or fiber in these meals – they slow digestion.

Otherwise, without ideal PWO nutrition, I’d just focus on gaining weight by eating lots of protein and plenty of calories from good foods, and accept the fat gain till you get too fat, then diet off the fat.

Half a bottle of PB 2X a day would make almost anyone fat. Half a bottle of my PB would be 2400 kcal.


#5

What is your current caloric intake? If you take a huge jump in calories in a short time, your body will not respond well and overcompensate by converting much of the surplus into fat. It is best to increase your daily caloric intake by 150-200 kcal per day every 2 weeks or so and keep adjusting until you reach your goals. As for PWO, I would just shell out the $36 for Surge recovery. It is worth every penny and much better than anything you put together yourself.


#6

[quote]andersons wrote:
The thing that’s not clear is exactly why you want advice.

If you want to gain muscle without too much fat, I do not see any way to achieve that without really good PWO nutrition. The PWO window is when you have the chance to stuff your muscles more and your fat cells less than usual. Without fast-digesting protein and an insulin spike, I don’t see how you’ll optimize the PWO window. Insulin spikes are easy to achieve with readily available foods, but fast-digesting protein. . . Your breakfast without the bread is still not even close to ideal. Cottage cheese – casein is a slow-digesting protein. Eggs are slow to digest, IMO. Berries are high in fiber, low-glycemic, low insulin. Not good for PWO.

Chocolate milk is probably better than any of these others. I also think that flaky white fish digests more quickly and easily than other proteins, and it also raises insulin more than many carb sources do. So I would also try eating a boatload of flaky white fish (like cod, tilapia, etc) and maybe some jellybeans (huge insulin spike). No veggies or fiber in these meals – they slow digestion.

Otherwise, without ideal PWO nutrition, I’d just focus on gaining weight by eating lots of protein and plenty of calories from good foods, and accept the fat gain till you get too fat, then diet off the fat.

Half a bottle of PB 2X a day would make almost anyone fat. Half a bottle of my PB would be 2400 kcal.
[/quote]

dude that is some great advice. Thank you
So for the PW it is gonna be I think 50grams of fast carbs and 25 of protein?
or is there any formula to get the right amount?
Do you know any kind of white fish that comes in a can? because the 3,50 - 4$ piece of white fish 5 times a week is gonna piss of my parents even more.

and for the other post…I really cant afford anything anymore. I got all the trouble of the world finding a crappy job for the summer that is gonna make me even more unhappy and I just spent 250$ for the supplements of the getshredded diet.


#7

[quote]mcook123 wrote:
What is your current caloric intake? If you take a huge jump in calories in a short time, your body will not respond well and overcompensate by converting much of the surplus into fat. It is best to increase your daily caloric intake by 150-200 kcal per day every 2 weeks or so and keep adjusting until you reach your goals. As for PWO, I would just shell out the $36 for Surge recovery. It is worth every penny and much better than anything you put together yourself.[/quote]

right now I am starving myself with a ketogenic diet 1700-1900 cals a day.
what do you means, adding 200cal per day until I reach 4000?or adding 200cal every 2 weeks? I could use some more slow fat burn for a couple of weeks, but I don’t feel like it.

I want to start building up my numbers again, I lost alot of bench press strength. I was doing warroom strategy for fat loss by CT, it worked out well but I want more than 1day lower and 1day upper body strength workout. I am also tired of circuits, there is too much people in my gym.

I wanna do 5*5 stuff.


#8

.8 g/kg carb and approximately .4 g/kg protein. Ideally the carbs would be fast acting such as maltodextrin. Feel free to add some sucrose, it is converted in the small intestine to glucose and fructose so will help restore blood and liver glucose levels. As for the protein, amino acids are absorbed faster so go for hydrolysate


#9

[quote]dude that is some great advice. Thank you
So for the PW it is gonna be I think 50grams of fast carbs and 25 of protein?
or is there any formula to get the right amount?
Do you know any kind of white fish that comes in a can? because the 3,50 - 4$ piece of white fish 5 times a week is gonna piss of my parents even more.

and for the other post…I really cant afford anything anymore. I got all the trouble of the world finding a crappy job for the summer that is gonna make me even more unhappy and I just spent 250$ for the supplements of the getshredded diet.
[/quote]

That would approximate the amounts in a serving of Surge. But if substituting milk I might try a bigger serving since it won’t spike insulin as high as Surge.

In fact, if I were you – young (I assume) and lean (if really 10% bf) but without money or complete control over my diet – I would just try to eat as much decent food as possible and gain weight. You have a window there in your youth when eating a lot and lifting hard have a more profound effect than they will 10 or 20 years from now. It’s a shame to not take advantage of it. But you will not be able to stay shredded and take advantage of it, especially with your budget and food choice limitations.

The worst thing you can do is not eat enough food during the PWO window. If all you got is cans of fish or tubs of cottage cheese, eat it.


#10

[quote]jasmincar wrote:
mcook123 wrote:
What is your current caloric intake? If you take a huge jump in calories in a short time, your body will not respond well and overcompensate by converting much of the surplus into fat. It is best to increase your daily caloric intake by 150-200 kcal per day every 2 weeks or so and keep adjusting until you reach your goals. As for PWO, I would just shell out the $36 for Surge recovery. It is worth every penny and much better than anything you put together yourself.

right now I am starving myself with a ketogenic diet 1700-1900 cals a day.
what do you means, adding 200cal per day until I reach 4000?or adding 200cal every 2 weeks? I could use some more slow fat burn for a couple of weeks, but I don’t feel like it.

I want to start building up my numbers again, I lost alot of bench press strength. I was doing warroom strategy for fat loss by CT, it worked out well but I want more than 1day lower and 1day upper body strength workout. I am also tired of circuits, there is too much people in my gym.

I wanna do 5*5 stuff.

[/quote]

What I mean is precisely that: every two weeks increase your daily calories by 150-200 kcal until you start seeing yourself gaining too much fat. Your body has adapted to 1700-1900 kcal a day, so if you jump to 4000 kcal/day you will be more than doubling your caloric intake. You body simply will not be able to handle it. To start off with, your body will simply try to get rid of the excess food (have you ever heard of explosive diarrhea).

Next, it will start converting more and more of it to fat and some muscle. Later, the ratio might change and you will put on more muscle than fat. By adjusting your diet slowly every two weeks, you will see more consistent gains in LBS with minimal fat gain assuming you stick to a good diet.


#11

[quote]mcook123 wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
mcook123 wrote:
What is your current caloric intake? If you take a huge jump in calories in a short time, your body will not respond well and overcompensate by converting much of the surplus into fat. It is best to increase your daily caloric intake by 150-200 kcal per day every 2 weeks or so and keep adjusting until you reach your goals. As for PWO, I would just shell out the $36 for Surge recovery. It is worth every penny and much better than anything you put together yourself.

right now I am starving myself with a ketogenic diet 1700-1900 cals a day.
what do you means, adding 200cal per day until I reach 4000?or adding 200cal every 2 weeks? I could use some more slow fat burn for a couple of weeks, but I don’t feel like it.

I want to start building up my numbers again, I lost alot of bench press strength. I was doing warroom strategy for fat loss by CT, it worked out well but I want more than 1day lower and 1day upper body strength workout. I am also tired of circuits, there is too much people in my gym.

I wanna do 5*5 stuff.

What I mean is precisely that: every two weeks increase your daily calories by 150-200 kcal until you start seeing yourself gaining too much fat. Your body has adapted to 1700-1900 kcal a day, so if you jump to 4000 kcal/day you will be more than doubling your caloric intake. You body simply will not be able to handle it. To start off with, your body will simply try to get rid of the excess food (have you ever heard of explosive diarrhea).

Next, it will start converting more and more of it to fat and some muscle. Later, the ratio might change and you will put on more muscle than fat. By adjusting your diet slowly every two weeks, you will see more consistent gains in LBS with minimal fat gain assuming you stick to a good diet. [/quote]

This is funny I have never heard of stuff like that. 200 cals per week, from approx 2000 to 4000. It is gonna take the whole summer to get to my optimal bulking spot.

Should I switch right now to 40-30-30 calories from Protein carbs fat or should I stay ketogenic and 200 calories from carbs?


#12

I know it sucks and takes a while, but your body will thank you. Feel free to go straight to 40-30-30. Remember to eat most of your carbs first thing in the morning and after exercise. That is when blood and liver glycogen stores are lowest and will help minimize your fat gains. Good Luck.


#13

[quote]andersons wrote:
dude that is some great advice. Thank you
So for the PW it is gonna be I think 50grams of fast carbs and 25 of protein?
or is there any formula to get the right amount?
Do you know any kind of white fish that comes in a can? because the 3,50 - 4$ piece of white fish 5 times a week is gonna piss of my parents even more.

and for the other post…I really cant afford anything anymore. I got all the trouble of the world finding a crappy job for the summer that is gonna make me even more unhappy and I just spent 250$ for the supplements of the getshredded diet.

That would approximate the amounts in a serving of Surge. But if substituting milk I might try a bigger serving since it won’t spike insulin as high as Surge.

In fact, if I were you – young (I assume) and lean (if really 10% bf) but without money or complete control over my diet – I would just try to eat as much decent food as possible and gain weight. You have a window there in your youth when eating a lot and lifting hard have a more profound effect than they will 10 or 20 years from now. It’s a shame to not take advantage of it. But you will not be able to stay shredded and take advantage of it, especially with your budget and food choice limitations.

The worst thing you can do is not eat enough food during the PWO window. If all you got is cans of fish or tubs of cottage cheese, eat it.[/quote]

I just turned 18. I don’t know exactly my Bf but now I got like the waist line that goes to my dick with a nice little veins and I can see all abzz (lol). I still got fat in my lower back. So I guess I am 10-12 maybe.

What do you think about the other guy who is telling me to add 200 cals a day? It’s the first time I hear something like that and I need more than 1 guy on T-Nation affirming this to be sure.(no offense mrcook123). I feel that 10 weeks to get to 4000 will be kind of slow but if it’s what to do then I’ll do it. Here comes weekly calculation and parents negociation and justification (sigh).

I just need to know how to add these calories.


#14

[quote]mcook123 wrote:
I know it sucks and takes a while, but your body will thank you. Feel free to go straight to 40-30-30. Remember to eat most of your carbs first thing in the morning and after exercise. That is when blood and liver glycogen stores are lowest and will help minimize your fat gains. Good Luck.[/quote]

oops, I didnt see your post, I was writing mine. So P-C in the morning. thanks


#15

Check out John Berardi’s Massive eating. You will be modifying it a bit since you are coming off a starvation diet, which means your metabolism is shot and needs to recover slowly.


#16

[quote]jasmincar wrote:

I just turned 18. I don’t know exactly my Bf but now I got like the waist line that goes to my dick with a nice little veins and I can see all abzz (lol). I still got fat in my lower back. So I guess I am 10-12 maybe.

What do you think about the other guy who is telling me to add 200 cals a day? It’s the first time I hear something like that and I need more than 1 guy on T-Nation affirming this to be sure.(no offense mrcook123). I feel that 10 weeks to get to 4000 will be kind of slow but if it’s what to do then I’ll do it. Here comes weekly calculation and parents negociation and justification (sigh).

I just need to know how to add these calories.[/quote]

I do not know, so I try to stick to things I do know about.

I have never gone from an extreme deficit like Get Shredded to a bulking diet. I have gone up more than 200 cals a week from a deficit to surplus, and I didn’t gain boatloads of fat or have diarrhea. There are a couple effects that weren’t so great: gas, because I added a lot more carbs, and water retention, making me lose some definition. But I also got a great pump and of course was able to train much more intensely with the added calories and carbs.


#17

I never said if you go up more than 200 kcal/day in a week you will have those effects. I said that for his situation going from 1700-1900 kcal/day to 4000 kcal/day it is very (about 90%) likely that his metabolism has slowed to the point where he will not be able to handle that amount and will have the side effects mentioned above. As such, increasing his caloric intake very slowly is the best and safest way to go.


#18

[quote]jasmincar wrote:
Umm…4000 calories is low for bulk? In Precision Nutrition they recommend 3600 cals to gain muscle. I used to take 4500-5000 cals, but I was mixing fat+carb (half a bottle of PB and half a tub of cottage 2 times a day). needless to say I got fat very quickly.

For the whey, I live in a lost hole in canada, I cant get some whey at a reasonnable price. Lol, they sell this stuff 70$ for 2lbs. If I order it from T-Nation or any other site, there is crazy fees for the posting and taxes (the more your stuff cost, the more the fees associated. A real scam). So I need some real food that my parents pay for.

I heard some people take chocolatemilk as a pwdrink or stuff like that, I am not sure.[/quote]

4000 is low for a bulk depending on his physical activity. I calculated maintenance cals and it was 3300 with no exercise at his Lean Body Mass at a light activity factor.

I doubt JB just threw out the number 3600 for a bulk without a discussion of the athlete’s lbm and exercise amount. The calcs are relatively simple and not really debatable. I’m thinking 4200 calories, but it all really depends on the OP’s exercise level.


#19

I did the getshredded diet for 3weeks, On the Massive eating article by JB, it is written that dieting should be no more than 3weeks to save your metabolism. I have dieted for 20 days plus 1 day of refeed

According to this my metabolism is not supposed to have slowed down, maybe a little bit.
What about increase of 400 cals per week?


#20

It might be okay, but I have never tried any more than 300 so can’t say for certain. With my clients I tend to try and err on the side of caution though. All I can say is give it a try and if you start to feel sick then cut back a little.