T Nation

My new cycle - is this too much gear?

Hey guys, here’s my new cycle, but first a little background info (if you don’t care, skip to the cycle @ the bottom). I would appreciate any advice from vets:

Weight: 220lbs
Height: 6’3"
bf%: 12%

Goal for cycle: to cut to sub 10% bf, and add as much mass as possible, WHILE maintaining/improving cardio conditioning.

Training style planned: 5 days/week, strength/hypertrophy (~5 reps/set, 20 sets/workout), compound movements dominate, some isolation for weak point training. + additional 2 post-workout HIIT cardio sessions(15min.)/week.

Diet planned for on cycle: 4500cal/day (~400prot.carb/day, ~400gm.carb/day, ~125gm. fats/day)

AAS Cycle history: 3 small cycles previously; using Mag-10 (for 2 weeks), 500mg test (for 4 weeks), and finally winny&deca (~700gm gear for 6 weeks).

Planned cycle (6 weeks):
75mg test propionate/day
100mg tren acetate/day

Total/week: 525mg test, 700mg tren
Rotating 2delt, 2thigh, 2glute, and 1bicep inj sites/week.

Ancillaries: 25 tabs clomid post cycle, 14 tabs Nolva in reserve, 2.5gm. finasteride/day throughout.

3 questions for you guys, if you have any idea:

  1. is this too much gear for someone who has never had a >1gm. cycle before?
  2. I am not planning on taking any anti-e during cycle, only after. I have some in reserve, if problems do arise. Is this a safe approach or should I run nolva throughout?
  3. I have had problems with water retention in my face before (I puff up and everyone notices) so would running Nolva throughout help reduce this?

Thanks guys, any advice would kick ass.

With a gram of test, in my opinion it would be best to run some type of anti e during this cycle as well as using something for atleast a month post cycle.
ex. nolva during clomid post
That is just my 2 cents, i am sure the more experienced vets will go into further detail.

you need more nolva and more clomid. run one or the other or both throughout.

also, i personally would go with 100mg of test, and 75mg of tren per day.

I like pdogs advice.

Thanks pdog, I will get more nolvadex and run it throughout.

You stated that your goal for this cycle was to “gain as much mass as possible”.

I would double up the test. Try doing 150mg of prop ED or 300mg EOD (unless you like feeling like a pin cushion). I would also include a frontload.

In my opinion, trying to cut fat and gaining as much mass as possible are 2 very different goals and diets. When supplementing with a test, you’re gonna get some conversion to estrogen, which in turn, will put a little bit of fat on you. I’ve tried to teach people this for years. Make as much of a gain as possible, then work on stripping the fat away to reveal your new muscle. Good luck.

Why would you frontload prop?


im gonna take a stab at ryans question, vets correct me if im wrong.

even though prop is a fast acting drug you still want blood levels to be high as fast as possible. for example if you used 100mg per day, thats 700mg per week. now im just throwing out numbers here but i would guess at the end of week one your blood levels would be around 4-500mg. thus it would take you two to three weeks to get those levels up without a frontload.

maybe im wrong. i do see your point because it is accepted that we dont front tren, winstrol, d-bol etc because of the quick acting ester.

Here is a breakdown of the mg of propinate in your body after each week for doing the cycle with or without a front load: (I used propinate ester as 4.5 day half life)

Without front 700mg prop/ day
1st: 240mg
2nd: 320mg
3rd: 346mg
4th: 356
5th: 359
6th 360:
7th(end of cycle):122,
10th: 5,
11th: 1,
12: 0.5.

with 1400mg frontload

As you can see, by the 3rd week dosages are too close between to really tell the difference. You may want the front because of the cycle being so short.
Also if you want to avoid bloat, an antiaromatase is a much better way to go. I recomend femara (letrozole) if you can get it.

MassN: I’ve never done anything close to that dosage before; it’s overkill. Are you sure that so much test is a great idea?

Prisoner22: did you do those calculations based on daily injections or how many a week?

Pdog: why do you suggest upping the test and lowering the tren? The reason I opted for more tren is to lean me out more, with less water retention. Some guys use just tren by itself, right?

Arch, using that much test is not overkill. You were planning to use 525mg of test per week originally. That itself will suppress endogenous test production, something that has been said here a few times. Whether you use 300mg per week or 2000mg per week, you’re going to need PCT. Remember, your recovery will be based on the LENGTH of your cycle, not the QUANTITY. It will be alot harder to recover from a 16 week cycle of test than a 6-8 week cycle.

Hey, you said your goal was to gain as much mass as possible, so this is just my opinion.

Just keep your ancillery drugs on hand, and get some extra Nolva and Clomid too just incase. You can never have too many ancilleries laying around. Good luck.

The calculations were done injecting 100mg of prop per day for the entire cycle

and the frontload was done injecting 200mg of prop per day for the first week.

The results show the difference in blood levels between frontloading or not of the propinate ester