T Nation

My HRT Journey (So Far)


#1

Ok. This will probably be a long read, but is actually just the cliff notes version of my last 2+ years (with a total of 17 blood tests conducted by 8 different doctors).

Partially this is to share, and partially this is to let people know that HRT may not be an easy quick journey, but you should never give up. Things can get better, but it will take time.

I am 36 year old male, wife, 2 kids, stable office job.

Lifelong ADHD (treated with Ritalin as a kid - side note: Ritalin is terrible for kids and messes them up in my opinion. Now on Desoxyn or Vyvanse which helps somewhat)
Lifelong overweight (6' 2" 250+ average weight now down to 225 after two long years)

Low T symptoms for the last 8 years but didn't know it was from low T.
-increased ADHD behavior
-dropping energy levels / exhausted every night
-weight gain / inability to lose weight
-inability to gain muscle
-general symptoms of depression
-mentally foggy
-lowering libido
-low confidence
-anxiety

Tried self treating for years by taking a huge variety of various supplements = no improvement.

Asked dr. about it 2 years ago.
Had to push for a testosterone test. (FYI - I am only posting the blood test highlights as all of the results takes up 4 full pages in excel.)
227 ng/ml Total T
894 pg/ml Total Estrogen (false high from Saw Palmetto?)

Got 2.5mg Androderm patch and a "You are good to go. Now go away."
Patch not working. No changes.

Went to an Endocrinologist.
Taken off of all supplements.
More blood tests.

210 ng/ml Total T
4.9 pg/ml Free T
48 pg/ml Total Estrogen

Caused by low LH.
MRI for pituitary tumor - none found.
Got 7.5mg Androderm and a "You are good to go."

741 ng/ml Total T
22 pg/ml Free T
39 pg/ml Estradiol

Felt good to start with, but then tapered off after 4-5 months. (due to hypothyroidism possibly)
Went back to doctor with complaints. More blood tests.

550 ng/ml Total T
20 pg/ml Free T
34 pg/ml Estradiol

"You are good to go. Now go away."

Came back a couple of months later still not feeling good.

Doctor did a ACTH Stim Test but it showed normal. "You are good to go." "but wait I don't feel good." "Sorry. You are fine. Now go away."

Thought maybe my Thyroid was off.
Went to Thyroid specialist.
More tests - pretty inconclusive but put on 240mg Armour (way to high of a dose).
Heart palpitations day one - scared off Armour.

Desperate tracked down yet another doctor through a well known compounding pharmacy.
This doctor was the best one yet, but had limited knowledge.
I had done so much research by this point that I was driving some of the treatment.

Started DHEA and Pregnenelone Supplements.
Tried compounded cream for a couple of months - no good (hypothyroid = no skin absorption)
207 ng/ml Total T
4.3 pg/ml Free T
Tried Lypo-compounded cream - no good.

Started on Arimidex and HcG shots

Started on lower dose of Armour.

Tried to go back to Androderm for a couple of months - no good.
350 ng/ml Total T
15 pg/ml Free T
53 pg/ml Estradial

Still not doing good.

Found another doctor (out-of-network)
Started T-Cypionate shots (200mg biweekly)
Some good days, but huge mood and energy swings
Found had a Vit D deficiency. Started Vit D3 supplements 10,000iu daily
Convinced doctor to try weekly shots - did better but not great.
Would only do shots in office weekly - end of discussion.

Went back to last doctor with new information and convinced him to try T-Cypionate shots 100mg E3D.
Estrogen seemed out of control. Slowly increased Arimidex to 2mg DAILY.

1500+ ng/ml Total T
Would not run Free T
11 pg/ml Estradial

Cut back T-Cypionate to 80mg E3D
Cut back on Arimidex to 1mg daily.

Overall doing pretty good increased energy levels at times, better moods mostly, but still have a severe mental fog, lack of drive, lack of focus that will not go away.

The doctor wanted to help, but had run out of ideas to try. Gave a referral to someone else.

Current new doctor is running every test known to mankind it seems. (he took 26 vials of blood!!!)

Currently waiting for blood test results taken 11 days ago.

Possible low ferritin (36 ng/ml - 150 is ideal I think)
Possible hypoglycemic (fasting glucose at 75-85 on all blood tests)
Possible Reverse T3 problem?
Possible low HGH (IGF-1 dropped from 262 to 171 over the last year)
Possible low cortisol (5.5 ug/dL at 8am)
Possible low white blood cell count (average 5.0 X10^3/uL)
Plus testing for heavy metal poisoning and other things that I am not familiar with.

Currently taking:
T-Cypionate shots .4ml 80mg E3D am
HcG .25iu E3D am
(shot schedule: hcg day, T-Cyp day, day off, repeat)
Vyvanse 60mg every am (for ADHD)
Arimidex (.5mg am & pm every day - had to break up because taking 1mg every am = exhaustion at night, taking 1mg every pm = profuse sweating 1 hour after taking dose)
Armour 30mg 3x daily
DHEA 25mg am & pm
Pregnenelone 30mg am & pm
Zinc 50mg am
Copper 4mg pm (zinc:copper ratio needs to be close to 10:1)
Vitamin D3 liquid 15,000iu am
Reduced Iron 29mg EOD pm
Multi Vitamin
Probiotics (1 capsule am & pm)
Fish Oil (2 pills am & pm)
Resveratrol 50 mg am
Green Tea 50mg am
Ubiquinol 25mg every afternoon
Starting tomorrow - compounded Cortisol 5mg daily first thing am

(edited: fixed alien txt caused by copy and paste)


#2

Here are the lessons I have learned during my last two years journey actively on HRT.

As a side note, most of this has been posted before by other such as KSman/hardasnails, some is from other sites, and some is from my own experiences.

KSman/Hardasnails really do know what they are talking about. Listen to them and read the sticky posts.

Thyroid Disorders, Hormone Problems, and Vitamin D deficiencies tend to be related (or share common symptoms). You should test for all of them at the same time.

Men who are hypothyroid tend to have problems absorbing T from transdermal creams or patches (personal experience here).

Armour or other natural Thyroid medications are better (in my personal experience) compared to the synthetic alternatives (if you can find any Armour that is).

HCG is good for your testicles. Injecting .25iu EOD or E3D works great. (personal experience here).

Excess HCG (.5iu or greater) can increase testicular function (and size) for a short time, but can also cause long term testicular damage (personal experience + validation from scientific papers I found online)

Excess HCG can also mimic TSH and cause hyperthyroid symptoms (anxiety attacks, heart palpitations, etc.) (personal experience here + validation from scientific papers I found online).

Using Arimidex to control Estrogen levels really does work and should be mandatory for HRT plans. Excess Estrogen may be the culprit increasing the chance of prostate cancer.

Some people over respond to Arimidex so you should be cautious and start with 1mg a week, but others under respond (I personally have to take 1mg DAILY).

Transdermal Patches, Creams, Lotions, etc. may work for some. Others may not respond at all or may have some initial results which taper off in the following months. (more personal experience here).

Test-Cypionate should be taken EOD or E3D. Taking it once a week, biweekly, or monthly will cause fluxuating moods, hormone levels, energy levels, etc. Get a prescription and self inject when possible.

Taking oral DHEA (25-50mg daily) and Pregnenolone (30-60mg daily) can help support your Hormone balance.

30-50mg Zinc daily is good for Hormone balance.

2-4mg Copper is needed to balance out extra Zinc.

An Fish Oil supplement is good for overall health.

Ubiquinol is great for heart health and general energy levels.

Vitamin D deficiency is underreported. A lot of people would benefit from a Vitamin D supplement.

GET the actual test results from the doctor's office. DO NOT accept "oh, your test results came back fine or within range". You are a paying customer. Make them fax you the results or get a new doctor, or ask for the results to be transferred, then get them from your new doctor.

You are the customer and have a say on what tests are run and your treatment plan. If you have a doctor that won't work with you, find another one.

Doctors surprisingly know very little. You know your body better then they do. Insist on getting your symptoms treated.

Never just accept that "your results are normal." Most doctors don't know what normal is. Get your own results and do your own research. Always insist on seeing your actual results. Get a copy for your records (in case you are like most people here who have to go from doctor to doctor until they can find one who will work with them.)

DO NOT believe the ranges the lab report shows. Do your own research.

Here is some of what I have asked for or doctors have recommended:
* Chemistry Panel (Metabolic panel with lipids)
* Complete Blood Count (CBC)
* Free Testosterone
* Total Testosterone (<500 is not good. 700-1000 is good)
* DHEA - Sulfate (low DHEA = increased risk of cardio complications + DHEA converts to T)
* Prostate-Specific Antigen (PSA)
* Estradiol
* Homocysteine
* C-reactive protein (High sensitivity) - (high = cardio risk)
* TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone) - not that important. It is inaccurate and too many doctors use it as the holy grail; T4/T3 numbers are more important.

  • Total T4
  • Free T4
  • Total T3
  • Free T3
  • Reverse T3 (excess T4 converts to RT3. High RT3 blocks free T3 - so your TSH and T3 numbers could look great, but are blocked by RT3 and you feel like @$#!)
  • Thyroglobulin Antibodies
  • Thyroid Peroxidase

  • Cortisol (low cortisol = low overall cellular functions)

  • LH (low LH = pituitary disfunction causing hypogonadism - need MRI to check for pituitary tumor)
  • FSH (same as above)
  • DHT (Dihydrotestosterone)
  • SHBG
  • IGF-1 (Insulin-Like Growth Factor) (indicator of Human Growth Hormone <200 = not great)
  • Prolactin
  • Progesterone
  • Pregnenolone (precursor of Cortisol, DHEA, and Progesterone + Preg resolves brain fog and improved memory)
  • VITAMIN B12
  • Vitamin D, 25-OH Total (should be 70-100 I think - almost everyone is deficient)
  • Vitamin D, 25-OH D3

  • Ferritin (critical for cellular function - low ferritin = low transport capability of hormones, etc.)

  • Iron, Total Binding Capacity
  • Iron, Binding Capacity
  • Magnesium, RBC (is important for cellular energy (ATP) production)

(edited: fixed alien txt caused by copy and paste)


#3

Very well summed up and glad I could have helped, but other people tell me that I have other motives for some unknown reason
Ksman
THis should be modifted and put in to the sticky section for future refernces from new bies


#4

How long does HcG stay potent once it is mixed?

The bottle says it only lasts 30 days (which I just noticed now after using HcG for the last nine months or so). I had been trying to save money so I got the largest size possible (10ml bottle) which normally last me three or four months.

I wonder if part of my problem is that after the first 30 days of a new bottle, the potentcy starts dropping off dramatically, and by the end of the fourth month, it is pretty much just inactive water.


#5

Found my own answer from an old post by Ksman:

HCG lasts much longer than that when recon. I mix 10,000iu and it is effective for 80 days.

If you can get hCG in multi-dose vials and simply inject BA water into that things are then easier. This subjects the recon hCG to needle flow transfer damage once [while injecting]instead of 2 times.

Best to inject 250iu SC EOD, research show that to be effective.

You can swirl to mix, just do not shake.

When transferring or loading up; do that slowly to reduce shear damage by high speed flow through the needle and avoid cavitation. Inject slowly too.

You can mix to any concentration that you like. I mix to 2000iu/ml and inject .125ml to get 250iu.


#6

30 days for novarel. I use corion which is 2000 ius so it last me one month to make sure it does not spoil.
After man years of using hcg I was mixing HCG and then taking a shot with out letting it settle resulting in a high concentrated shot off the bat then leaving me on a huge rollercoaster ride of estrodial high to low really fast. This would explain my eracticle e2 blood tests in relationship to HCG shot.


#7

Ok... so what HcG lasts 80 days?

I have 10,000 iu of novarel that I have been using for the past three months....

Also, I just started 5mg compounded capsule Hydrocortisone daily (I take it the second I wake up). Anyone have any experience with low dose cortisol? What should I expect?


#8

Ok, so my April Blood Test with the following shot schedule showed:

Day 1 - .25iu HcG (E3D) w/ 2mg Arimidex
Day 2 - 100mg T-Cypionate (E3D) w/ 2mg Arimidex
Day 3 - Blood Test:
1500+ ng/mL Total T (per LabCorp)
Doctor would not run Free T (even after pushing.)
17 pg/mL Estradiol (per LabCorp)

I then reduced my T-Cyp shots by 20% and Arimidex by 50%.

My June Blood Test with the following Shot Schedule showed:

Day 1 - .25iu HcG (E3D) w/ 1mg Arimidex
Day 2 - 80mg T-Cypionate (E3D) w/ 1mg Arimidex
Day 3 - no shots w/ 1mg Arimidex
Day 4 - .25iu HcG (E3D) w/ 1mg Arimidex
Day 5 - Blood Test:
634 pg/mL Total T (per Quest)
170 pg/mL Free T (per Quest)
19 pg/mL Estradiol (per Quest)

So assuming I was at 1500 Total T in April, a 20% reduction should I guess have me around 1,200 Total T on Day 3 in June, which then dropped to 600 Total T on Day 5 (the day I normally take my T-Cyp shot).

That seems like a pretty big drop over those days. If you add that drop and my insane high dosage of Arimidex (I was on 2mg DAILY which only dropped me to 17.4 Estradiol), it makes me think that my liver (or something else) must do a damn good job of cleaning out my system (a little too well) - so maybe I need to inject more frequently.

So I was taking 100mg E3D which equals 1,000mg a month.

I dropped that to 80mg E3D which equals 800mg a month.

If I switch to EOD, I would need to take 800mg/15days = ~50mg EOD. That comes out to 750mg a month which is less, but workable I think given my previous 1500+ levels at 1000mg a month.

Trying to get exactly 50mg (.25ml) from a 200mg/ml bottle is not going to be easy with the 3ml syringes I have. I may need to buy smaller syringes, but that will be a pain since smaller syringes don't have the suction power to pull the T-Cyp out of the bottle.

Does my dosage change sound about right?


#9

Human source hCG is all basically the same and all should be reconstituted with BA water and refrigerated. I don't expect that the different brands will be any different. If 80 days is a problem for you, get 5,000iu vials.


#10

ok 3 quick questions hopefully.

1) Why do some people say HcG only lasts 30 days and others say 80 days? Just personal preference?

2) I just started 5mg compounded capsule Hydrocortisone daily (I take it the second I wake up). Anyone have any experience with low dose cortisol? What should I expect?

3) Based on my post above about changing my T-Cyp shots to EOD, does my overall thought process make sense or could I be missing something? (it is hard to manage your own health when you are constantly walking around in a mental fog.)


#11

Here is my last blood test results as of 06/11/10:

634 ng/dL Total Testosterone (my range has bounced between 200 to 1500+. changed to 50mg EOD + .25iu Hcg EOD)
170 pg/mL Free Testosterone (by Quest)
45 ng/dL DHT (Dihydrotestosterone)
19 pg/mL Estradiol (my range has bounced between 11 to 53. Taking 1mg Arimidex daily)
0.5 ng/mL PSA
0.1 PSA, free
12.0 nmol/L SHBG (down from normal 14-19 range)
419 mcg/dL DHEA SULFATE (my range has bounced between 148 to 613. I take 40mg daily)
313 ng/mL IGF-1 (Insulin-Like Growth Factor) (my range has bounced between 171 to 262)
62 ng/dL Pregnenolone (last was 112. I take 60mg daily)
0.3 mg/L C Reactive Protien, Cardiac
6.7 umol/L Homocysteine, Cardo
9.3 ug/dL Cortisol (last was 5.5. Just started 5mg Hydrocortisol daily)
5.2 % Hemoglobin A1c
23.0 pg/mL ACTH, Plasma

0.98 ulU/mL TSH (I take 90mg Armour daily)
1.0 ng/dL Thyroxine (T4) Free
3.4 pg/mL Triiodothyronine (T3) Free
pending ng/dL T3 Reverse
<20 IU/mL THYROGLOBULIN ANTIBODIES
<10 IU/mL THYROID PEROXIDASE

4.8 X10^3/uL WBC
5.39 X10^6/uL RBC
172 X10^3/uL Platelets
50.1 % Neutrophils
40.7 % Lymphs
7.1 % Monocytes
1.5 % EOS%
0.6 % BASOS%
2.4 x10^3/uL Neutrophils (Absolute)
1.9 x10^3/uL Lymphs (Absolute)
0.3 x10^3/uL Monocytes(Absolute)
0.1 x10^3/uL Eos (Absolute)
0.0 x10^3/uL Basos (Absolute)
16.3 g/dL Hemoglobin
48.1 % Hematocrit
89.2 fL MCV
30.3 pg MCH
34.0 % MCHC
14.3 % RDW

<2 uIU/mL Insulin
80 mg/dL GLUCOSE
12 mg/dL BUN (Urea Nitrogen)
0.95 mg/dL CREATININE, SERUM
12.6 BUN/CREAT
140 mmol/L Sodium, Serum
4.0 mmol/L Potassium, Serum
104 mmol/L Chloride, Serum
26 mEq/l CO2
9.5 mg/dL CALCIUM
7.2 g/dL Total Protein Serum
4.7 g/dl ALBUMIN
2.5 g/dl GLOBULIN
1.9 ALB/GLOB
0.8 mg/dL Bilirubin, Total
63 U/L Alkaline Phosphatase, Serum
18 U/L AST/SGOT
17 U/L ALT/SGPT

149 mg/dL Cholesterol, Total
68 mg/dL Triglycerides
44 mg/dL HDL
91 mg/dL LDL Calculated
3.4 Ratio CHOL/HDL

889 pg/mL VITAMIN B12
287 ng/mL Folate (I think this is low. Not 100% sure yet. Starting 800mcg daily)
57 ng/mL Vitamin D, 25-OH Total (down from 84. I take 15,000 iu daily)
57 ng/mL Vitamin D, 25-OH D3
<4 ng/mL Vitamin D, 25-OH D2
59 ng/mL Ferritin (up from 36. I take 29mg reacted iron EOD+multi-v)
109 mcg/dL Iron, Total Binding Capacity (up from 77)
296 mcg/dL Iron, Binding Capacity
37 calc % Saturation


#12

This looks awesome, but question is how do you feel?
Also i would check to make sure that your dhea is going down the proper pathways with 2/16 ratio. This is mandatory for all of our guys on TRT as we are seeing alot of people with genetic mutations that is altering specific enzymatic pathways which if not adjusted TRT can actually increase a person chances of cancer if not properly evaluated. Thyroid is still low because of cortisol not getting a tissue response. As your cortisol increases this should lower your ft3 level so keep an eye on this in the future. The more iron will also help thyroid response as well. As cortisol and ferritin go up thyroid will be pushed into cell quicker. Also take HC before the blood draw one hour in order to see if it is being absorbed. Response you want is around 17-19 to have good reserve.


#13

More on this DHEA issue please, and address the implication that restoring DHEA to youthful levels means that such persons already had the risks associated with those levels for the many of their younger years.


#14

Momma told you to eat your vegetables for a reason. I just started eating alot of broccolli again yesterday and my pee in the morning turned dirty yellow and stunk to high heaven. This happened when I only take dim. Many men on HRT eat like crap and barely get 2-3 servings of green cruiferous veggies a week alone 2-3 servings a day. In this case I have them take green vibrance to help get proper serving of greens for the day.

This helps with keeping the estrogen metabolites going down the healthy pathways and not crossing over to the carcinagenic ones. People that have had prostrate cancer which I have tested have this altered pathways. What came first the altered metabolism or cancer well it has been shown people with higher levels of bad estrogens are more like to have dramatically increased rate.

American does not eat enough green vegetables as we did 30 years ago and the vegetables are so nutrient depleted that we have to eat 2-3 times normal amount to get the healthy benefits of them. Then factor in stress related mutation and you have a breeding ground for cancer.


#15

The problem is that I do not feel great. I am better in some ways, but I am still spacey, unmotivated, can't focus or push through issues, and mentally foggy. I am concerned that it may just be my new normal since it is related to my lifelong fight with ADHD.

My energy levels are better, my sleep is better, I am getting morning erections (prior to treatment nada, and when on 2mg Arimidex daily nada), my libido is better, my weight seems to be more under control (I still have some to lose, but have a hurt knee which makes working out for the past two weeks basically impossible), and I am able to gain muscle when I do a proper work out.

The change from .25iu HcG from E3D to EOD and the change from 80mg T-Cyp E3D to 50mg T-Cyp EOD has not done much except make me slightly more irritable it seems (hey, I wonder if that is due to the impact the 50% more HcG is having on my Thyroid since HcG mimics TSH?), but it could also be caused by some interaction with the 5mg hydrocortisone I started (or both). I am not sure which. My chest is also starting to break out, which happened earlier when the doctor had me on 100mg DHEA daily (and subsequently dissappeared when I dropped to 50mg daily).

hardasnails - you mentioned cortisol treatment in some of your previous forum posts. Does 5mg hydrocortison do anything for most people? My Cortisol levels at 8am have been 5.9, 12.1, and 9.3. An ATCH stim test resulted in 9.9 base, 23.9 30 minute reading, and 26.2 60 minute reading.

Also does anyone know if high progesterone levels in men is bad? The lab range says <1.4, but I don't rely on ranges provided by the labs, and I can't find much about excess male progesterone online. My last two tests showed 2.6 and 3 ng/mL. Is that high? If so, can that cause any problems?


#16

The problem is that I do not feel great. I am better in some ways, but I am still spacey, unmotivated, can't focus or push through issues, and mentally foggy. I am concerned that it may just be my new normal since it is related to my lifelong fight with ADHD.

My energy levels are better, my sleep is better, I am getting morning erections (prior to treatment nada, and when on 2mg Arimidex daily nada), my libido is better, my weight seems to be more under control (I still have some to lose, but have a hurt knee which makes working out for the past two weeks basically impossible), and I am able to gain muscle when I do a proper work out.

The change from .25iu HcG from E3D to EOD and the change from 80mg T-Cyp E3D to 50mg T-Cyp EOD has not done much except make me slightly more irritable it seems (hey, I wonder if that is due to the impact the 50% more HcG is having on my Thyroid since HcG mimics TSH?), but it could also be caused by some interaction with the 5mg hydrocortisone I started (or both). I am not sure which. My chest is also starting to break out, which happened earlier when the doctor had me on 100mg DHEA daily (and subsequently dissappeared when I dropped to 50mg daily).

hardasnails - you mentioned cortisol treatment in some of your previous forum posts. Does 5mg hydrocortison do anything for most people? My Cortisol levels at 8am have been 5.9, 12.1, and 9.3. An ATCH stim test resulted in 9.9 base, 23.9 30 minute reading, and 26.2 60 minute reading.

Also does anyone know if high progesterone levels in men is bad? The lab range says <1.4, but I don't rely on ranges provided by the labs, and I can't find much about excess male progesterone online. My last two tests showed 2.6 and 3 ng/mL. Is that high? If so, can that cause any problems?


#17

Stop talking about .25iu hCH, that is nonsense! Your dose should be 250iu, 1000 times larger than stated. Do not confuse ml's and iu's. Not all hCG is 1000iu/ml, it can be whatever you mix it to.

Skin breaking out is a good sign from a male hormone point of view, indicates more T and/or DHT.

1mg Arimidex per day may be greatly inhibiting anastrozole in the brain... which does need estrogen to work right. Suggest that you cut dose by 1/2 and see how brain fog changes over 2 weeks. Stop taking Arimidex for 3 days then start the lower dose.


#18

Just curious if anyone else splits up the arimidex? I also take 1mg/day. My test C is a little high at 300 mg/wk but even 3mg/wk of arimidex, my e went up to 59. I am going to try the 1mg/day for the next 3 months and see if that works. I am also close to hypothyroid so that medicine starts next week. I also take 350 hcg 3x/wk.


#19

yeah - just another example of the joys of "brain fog". I am taking 250iu. Noveral 10ml bottle, 10,000 iu, .25ml EOD - I think I will also switch back to E3D or maybe just lower the dosage to 200iu .2ml EOD. Going from 250iu E3D to 250iu EOD resulted in a 50% bump to my effective HcG dose. I think it may be too much - mild heart palpitations.

I will probably give that a try - if I can get those pills down to .25mg quarters so that I can take 1 am and 1 pm.

Is it better to go cold turkey for 3 days compared to just reducing the dose to .5mg daily?

I was on 2mg Arimidex a day (on 80mg T-Cyp E3D / ~200mg weekly), and that took me down to 11.2 Estradiol, with no morning erections and general depression. When I cut back to taking 1mg a day in the morning I was completely exhausted every night at 5pm. If I took the 1mg Arimidex at 5pm, I started sweating profusely one hour after taking it.

It appears Arimidex has an immediate full blown impact on me, but it also gets cleared from my system within 10-12 hours. I think that was my problem with taking it weekly, it wasn't the dosage, it was just the constant wild flucuations. I thought it was a dosage issue ,and I tried to fix it by constantly increasing the dosage. I will see how the new lower .25mg x2 daily dosage works.


#20

I think I will try splitting up my AI .5 in the morning and .5 afternoon. I have been doing some research on the internet and a lot of guys are claiming its the AI. I have been taking a lot of naps lately and I never used to. I'm sure I have other conditions (high E 59) but I will give that a try and see how that works. I figured even if I get too low on the E, it wont be for some time before it gets there and my next blood work is in Sept. Also, the thyroid meds will give me a boost of needed energy. You are right, this is a time consuming ordeal. I started it this last Feb. My TT was 92 at the time. It's 997 right now. Sae ration with FT. I also take VD3 at 15,000 / day.