T Nation

My HOT ROX Contest Rant


Please, for the love of God, understand that it is 10x's harder to go from 9% to 5% than it is for someone to go from 15% to 9%, or whatever. Not voting for someone because they looked "too good" at the start of the contest is just stupid. It's damn hard to get to drop percentages when you are already in single digits.

I could say a lot more, but I'll stop w/ that one point.



I'll admit, I didn't give that as much consideration as I should have. It wouldn't have changed my voting much, but you still have a very good point.


Very true Joel. However, we're not supposed to be voting off strictly number changes here, which is good since anyone can say they went from 15% to 9% bodyfat. The pictures will show the actual changes made. If they don't look like they changed as much as the numbers say, then their numbers are wrong. Plain and simple.

You are right about trying to get even leaner once you are lean is a lot harder. I think people are also forgetting to read the essays and programs that people used for their voting.


Thank you for this post, Joel. It was MUCH needed and my thoughts exactly.

And did you also want to say how some of the Hot Rox Challengers DID NOT perform their "before"/"after" shots similarly? You know, same background, same/similar poses.....etc.

Was that another rant? hmmmmm?


I agree 100%. I've found that when cutting, it takes me longer to go from 8% to 6% than it does from 13% to 8%. Plus, it takes a far more contemplated approach. This knowledge/personal experience definitely influenced my vote.

Nonetheless, I still have nothing but the highest praise for everyone who participated in the contest; you all definitely represented T-mag in great ways.


I would like to add too, that it's tough for a person greater than, like, 25% to drop a considerable amount of weight. Yeah, it's easy for a lot of people to do, but what about the people who've been that way for obviously a long time ? They can't just change their diet and training and then get results. It takes one hell of a lifestyle change and a serious commitment and focus to drastically change their body in 12 weeks. It's got to be phycologically tougher for them. I would totally agree it takes a lot longer and it's a lot harder to get from the low teens to around 5-6%, but those people are already bad asses to begin with, and probably have done it many times before, therefore obviously very deciplined, knowlegdeable. If I had to put $100 bet on someone, I'd bet that the in shape person at 11% can get to 5% in 12 weeks, versus the 25% guy getting to the mid-teens. Those people from the HRC who dropped a considerable amount of BF should receive the same respect as the people who's down to the single digits and looking good !


looks like the winners are the ones who were faily lean to begin with, the only guy that looks to be getting shafted is chardawg who was very lean to begin with.

by my albeit fast count, just counting all the first votes, it looks like machine, ghost, ryan, john roman. in that order.

congrats to all you guys and gals that stuck through it and your awesome transformations.


I agree with what Podge said. It's more impressive for me to see some fat ass finally get their shit together, start eating right, start exercising than it is to see some guy who is already naturally pretty thin go from 8% to 6%. Especially if the skinny guy doesn't have any real muscle at 6%.


Directly from The Challenge Entry Thread by Chris Shugart....

"You'll be judged by the quality of the change you made and your ability to explain how you did it"

At no time was this advertised as a body building competition. Each person was to make the best transformation they could make in the allotted amount of time.

Everyone has to start somewhere. I don't think one person who reads this magazine or forum can claim they started with low body fat, and high muscle mass. Basically we all started at one of two spots- skinny or overweight.

When you began your quest for fitness should not matter in a transformation contest. If the contest had been held ten years ago would you still have the same sentiment?

Most of us would be in the early stages of learning to train and making lots of mistakes. A vast majority probably had never set foot in a gym 10 years ago. More power to them for having the guts to step up, submit their photos for everyone to see, and try to better themselves. Soon they may be struggling to get from 10% to 6%.


This, just like an actual BB contest, is subjective. Deal with it. :wink:

I used a phrase similar to that of your rant. While it may be harder to get from low teens to single digits (not that I'd know), it's also harder to see the degree of change in side by side comparisons - at least for a miserable lay person such as myself. I haven't surrendered the $200 to get Groove's Mind Calipers and visually, I'd say there is a bigger change in appearance when you're not hot shit already and then you become so. Selection of adequate before/after poses and lighting also play a huge roll as Patricia pointed out.

I think Char had the best set going for pics/lighting/layout, but I couldn't in good conscience vote for him since the actual amount of change was not as dramatic VISUALLY than that of several others. Yes, he looks freakin' awesome. Yes, he is well versed and thoroughly knowledgeable. Yes, he worked his ass off and has every right to be damn proud of his accomplishments. But no, VISUALLY, the change was as astounding as some others. (Sorry, hon) Same for several others.

So, blame it on my not having personal knowledge of how hard it is to make the drop you mentioned. Blame it on my not knowing shit about lifting or nutrition. Blame it on my not being an experienced judge. Blame it on me being "stupid". Whatever. I'm ok with that. Perhaps that's why our measly votes only count for one third of the outcome.


Tree: Actually all sorts of bodytypes are involved in this forum; just as all sorts of bodytypes became involved with this forum.

Podge: I ain't knockin' or belittling anyone's effort in this Challenge. Everyone did a bang up job. And as someone who's had to diet (for comptitive purposes)

And I agree: I think that Char is being shafted due to his Before pics not lookin' like they were, well, Before Pics. But, he posted a damn good essay; followed the rules of the Before/After pics; and made gains and lost BF during his process. His pics displayed that. Therefore: he's in the running, IMO.

Let it be known now: I'm taking ALOT of care when it comes to my vote. Since I do see quite a few competitors who did take as much care when it came to competing in the challenge. For that, they deserve the respect and thoroughness when it comes to placing yours, or my vote. I'm not treating this like some sort of BFL challenge. Where all the entries had to do was lose BF. I expect a bit more.

And what, has not anyone really sat down and READ the instructions on Hot Rox? Hmmm?


One advantage that I would think lean (<10%) contestants had was their ability to manipulate their look by simple hydration and carb depletion. I would think that at the lower end of the BF scale, you could make a significant difference within a week via glycogen/water level manipulation.

I didn't really consider the poses. This isn't a posing contest, yet I do see the value in having 'comparable' poses. In some cases, I think some people just didn't think about it. In any case, for me, my vote went to people with the most noticable body comp change and the best description of their methods.

My vote was cast based on this thinking: If Hot Rox was my supplement, which person's results would I use to demonstrate to people that this stuff works?


Whoa, let me complete a sentence:

"And as someone who's had to diet (for comptitive purposes)"

...I know and I've been there. I've gone from a decent double digit down to single. And even a single digit down to a lower single digit. Dude, it's tough goin' no matter where you begin; however, I have to say to gain/maintaining LBM while even dropping from 10% to below - is tough. Very much so. This I know.

Okay...sentence/thought completed. All is right with the world. :wink:


It is extremely diff. for the fit to drop that last 2-3%. Gaining any sort of lean mass is even more diff. when you're below that 10%#. Anytime I have increased LBM there was ALWAYS some additional BF that came with it.


Hey bodyIQ...while its true to gain a good amount of lean mass you will also add some fat, but the leaner you are the more your body will add LM vs fat and vice versa.


One more thing i agree w/ Patricia adout the before and after pics.


Out of 100+ participants who had signed up, 28 showed up at the end. All made a concious effort, and put in hard work to lose weight. Some did a lot better than others, and I'm sure some people probably did their personal best in this contest. I'm starting to feel a negative vibe with this thread, and I feel that this contest should be more thought of as a positive experience.


Right on Podge. The rules on voting were clearly stated and easy to follow. If someone doesn't like the rules or how the winner will be selected, they shouldn't vote. However, to cast aspersions on the contest or on what is harder or easier to acheive is uncalled for. It's ALL hard! All of the entrants who posted photos did a great job and I hope they all win a prize...they worked hard for it while some people, like me, choose to stay on their pizza and beer diet. :slight_smile:


I think the Dog Pound contestants have a huge advantage, because their votes count more and virtually all of their fellow Dog Pounders (love that term) voted within the Pound.


I think T-mag divided the vote into thirds to avoid most of the problems being talked about on this thread, so basically, there isn't a problem. Everything will balance out.

Overall, I think it's been a hugely positive competition. I just want to go train every time I look at the results. I'm especially impressed with those that didn't get into their final, goal shape yet but posted their photos anyway. That took balls. With balls like that, they'll reach their goals for sure.

Now I just have to finally make up my mind who to vote for!