T Nation

My First Test Cycle (WITH BEFORE/AFTER PICS)

Pharma
#1

Hi!

Im new on this forum and choosed to sign up here cause I found it the most appropriate of all those forums on the wild web. And actually I was very fascinated about physioLojiks advices, from a real endocrinologist whose on the field making his job. There’s so much broscience, in fact a new term for me after I started last spring researching steroids.

A little about me: Im male, 30years old, from Finland, have a family, studying as a physiotherapist and now im on my first week of my cycle. Ive been going to the gym since I was 15, did really enthystiastic till 18-19, then off for 4-5years, doing drugs and thinking what I want from life, and started going to the gym again from 25 and really been doing this again since 27-28. Stats now, 184cm (6foot??) and 91kg(200lbs) bf around 16-17%.

So I have these few questions. Im doing a cycle of omnadren 500/wk split in 2 injections for 10wks.
1-10 Omna 2x250/wk

(EDIT: 11th [LAST] POST, I’VE BUILD 4 ALTERNATIVE CYCLES WITH 2 ALT. PCT. CAN ANYONE GIVE ME HIS/HER OPINION WHICH IS BEST AND IF MY PCT HAS SOMETHING WHAT MUST BE CHANGED? SCROLL DOWN AND THANKS, I’D REALLY APPRICIATE IT =)

So because of broscience I ordered anastrozole to take it during cycle. Itll arrive on monday. Been taking now 6-bromo 100mg ed in the morning. But then I read about tamoxifen (nolva) to be used as the only antiestrogen during cycle and AI’s only if needed.

So, should I order nolva and use it daily? should I continue 6-bromo? What with the arimidex? Can Itake it like twice a week (elimination half life 2-3 days or does this cause too much rebound effects? Should I just go as I have started and if I start to experience some sides Ill start anastrozole? Or nolva better? U tell me. And how about pct on cycle like this?

What do you think about keeping ones hypothalamus and pituiary glnad fluctuating with the use of opioid-antagonist like nalmefene and naltrexone from keeping own test production from shutting down?

How much does a glass 12cl of wine or a pint of regular lager with meal affect aromatizing when on this kind of cycle? Have searched the net about this but all I find is people think if one asks about alcohol its always getting wasted?! Everybody talks about how bad its for your liver but non of the aromatization. Have read that humulus lupulus acts as and aromatase-inhibitor as do flavonoids in white wine but alcohol induces significantly aromatization, so…havent been drinking yeat because dont want to risk it. I know 1alcohol dose/day is considered healthy and 2or more unhealthy, but how much does this affect the T:E ratio and aromatization and possibility of getting estrogenic sides? And why Im asking is I used to take a beer or two with my dinner, but havent since I started my cycle. Its kinda just a habit but like yesterday (bc friday =P) I bought a beer but didnt drink it. Sometimes it would just be nice to chill with a could pint.

Thank U so much!

#2

Yeah and I know I should plan my pct forehand but there are so many opinions about of which drugs to use when coming off of cycle.

Was thinking doing twice a week 2mg of nalmefene intranasally (bioavailability and ive got just 3x18mg tablets but couple of mgs should be enough for this purpose) during cycle and after with some nolva(?). Do I need something else like hcg?

Very curious about folks here know about the opioid-antagonism studies. Theres been a little conversation on forums about this but people dont know the difference between a opioid agonist and ant-agonist…

Ill do it anyway, maybe itll be a new trend some day…using opiod antagonist on cycles. and why 2 times a week because of receptor sensitization. I dont know. maybe physioLojiks knows because endo and has to do with hpta-axis.

Thanks!

#3

Ok, got my anastrozole today, it’s from the pharma comp Alvogen. Should I start it with .25mg ed or just have at hand? Or would you recommend to order nolva? Havent had any sides, but it’s been just a week, tomorrow my 3rd 250 test pin. Some water retention. Maybe a little afraid of crashing E2 but also paranoid of gyno, but have getting over the paranoia. Also read that anastrozole is not that selective for just E2 aromatizing, so nolva would be better in this case cause it’s more selective on the breast tissue receptors (yes I know the other is an AI the other a serm).

I know this is kinda rambling because theres much discussion about this and everybody works different etc.

But what would YOU do…?

I think I’ll start the anastrozole .25mg ed, drop the bromo (have been using it as an AI) and order the nolva. And then if I get the feeling of sides -> drop the anastrozole and hit the nolva 10mg ed?

Hope I’ll get someone commenting so that this wont be a monolog anymore… =D

Didnt have a pre-blood work…will do one in the middle, or maybe sooner (?)

Thanks!

#4

Sorry for not seeing this sooner! You have posted a ton of info and clearly have been doing your homework. I am still on holiday with my family but I will get to this very soon!

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#5

Hi!

Nice that you spotted my post! =)

Have a very relaxing holiday with your family!

Will be waiting for your advices and thoughts! =)

Ps.: Started with .5mg/d with anastrozole just to raise up the blood levels.Will run this for one week and then drop it to .5mg eod. Or is this too aggressive? I just have at nights this water retention, I dont know why, because of carbs (?) consider myself to eat clean and cutting on carbs.

Pps.: Oh yeah and tried last weekend having one pint (1,5 alc doses) with my meal on friday and saturday and I think I shouldn’t do that. Maybe it’s just in my head but I think itll worse the water retention so maybe such a low dose significantly raises the aromatizing level. Though hadnt been taking the a-dex yet.

Bye!

#6

Hi,

another short update. I threatend to take adex .5mg ed on week 2 for the whole week and then drop it to .25mg ed. I took mo and tue .5mg but today on wednesday only .25mg, because I noticed my systolic blood pressure go up to numbers 155-163/85 and I thought that’d be due to the adex’s effect of raising blood pressure through lowering blood pressure. So, i took today .25mg. In the morning my bp is fine but through the day it raises and now it is again in the same numbers.

I ordered today the nolva so shall i start it immediately 10mg ed and totally stop the adex?

There is also this thing that I have bipolar disorder type 1 and am taking medications: lithium 1200mg/d, lamotrigine (lamictal) 200mg/d and quetiapine (seroquel) 300mg/d. I studied that there are no interactions between those drugs and anastrozole/tamoxifen, no ones hat Im aware of.

Could it be a quetiapine rebound effect because it lowers (dramatically) blood pressure and I take it only once a day at night. So maybe I should split the quetiapine dose into a afternoon and night dose. Yesterday when I took my quetiapine my bp dropped down to 125/66.

I guess I just have to try, but the isolated hypertension is worrying me.

Someone else here who’s had problems with bp? I know that the test injections can raise ones bp, but dont think not that much. Sometimes I also take intranasally a nicotine spray which could also raise blood pressure but that much…Oh, and my normal systolic blood pressure has always been a little high, 130/75 (at day, not in the morning, in the morning it’s low). I selten add sodium (like when im cooking olive oil, onions and white button mushrooms I’ll add a little salt and cooking pasta etc) and eat clean.

Will there be a huge estrogen rebound if I stop the adex before the tamoxifen arrives?

That’s for today!

Ps.: I also read somewhere quckly that testosterone stimulates in some way the vagus nerve which can result in higher blood pressure. So what if the systolic stays at 150? My pulse has also hightend to 70-90+! Should I start doing some real cardio/hiit again?

PPs.: So now I didnt take the quetiapine yet but the bp dropped to 126/68. Like yesterday. Took 200mg aspirin today. But what can this be? First raises at night and later at night drops!

Ciao

#7

And sorry for putting so much info here to read, but I can use this also as somekind of a diary =)

I have also a before pic so I can share my progression.

#8

About that blood pressure I was worrying about ysterday: could it be the opioid antagonist nalmefene?! Had 125-130 systolic at noon, took approx. 1mg nalmefene intranasally and now 2h later it’s 152. My pulse also bumps up which is listed as a possible side effect as is low bp but not high bp. Or is it t normal for the resting blood pressure to go up and down so often? Havent measured my blood pressure so often while off cycle so I dont how it usually bounces =D Im also maybe more concerned about this bp issue because as I have earlier stated that Im studying physiotherapy and have been working during my practises with stroke patients and wouldnt like myself to end up in that kind of state.

For those using an opioid antagonist in a same way as I do, feel free to share your experiences with the substance and if you’ve had issues with your cardiovascular system during the use of nalmefene/naltrexone/naloxone!

I’ve forgotten to put my goals into my first post: My goal is to build some muscle and to improve technique and biomechanical performance towards perfect. Im just in wee2, but have already noticed faster improvement in biomechanical performance than I did as a natty. But my main goal if one has to be risen on the top of all is getting leaner and build a better physique.

Ps.: I go now .25mg adex eod, but then would need advice for using the nolva as it arrives. Am a little bit concerned with the blood clotting side effect, but that shouldn’t be an issue with a short run of use?

PPs.: Should I stop writing here so often, because I feel Im flooding and putting a sh*tload of information about my cycle for you to help me with and thought maybe this is not the proper way to do it…like bombing someone with so many questions… =D

Kiitos ja heippa!

#9

About the blood pressure: I dont feel I would have water retention and no swollen fingers or face, I have to drink wayyy more and starting it now. But confused now if I should take a higher dose of adex or totally quit it. This week mo/tue/we/th -> .5/.5/.25/.25. I also read somewhere on a forum from a veteran juicer that the transition of hormonal levels will reflect blood pressure.

So maybe leave stressing and watch bp and drink plenty of water?

Ps.: Now at night bp 114/57 (took my meds, 6-bromo and .25 adex earlier)

Pps: This morning (after being outside bringing my daughter to kindergarten) bp 127/78 on 66 bpm. Psychosomatic prone changes? Or it’s the quetiapine, haven’t figured out yet. That’s why I am asking if you (plural) have had significant bp and pulse changes during cycle. Naaf, have to avoid negative situations, drink water a lot and take anastrozole.

Next post includes pics from before cycle!

#10

Hi!

Here are some pics from october 9th 2017. My pecs are very tiny because I have genetically a kyphotic thoracic spine. Not that bad, kyphotic structure, but still affecting my motor control and strength in scapula, shoulder and upper back area as my posture which significantly affect the pectoralis major. I also injured my right glenohumeral joint repeatedly by falling on it causing some minor rupture in the rotator cuff. Last accident was in 2013, which was the worst accident, and I really couldnt perform 100%. I didnt have the best motivation to rehab first but it got better through the minimal effort the next few years after which I started to rehab it properly and got it working pretty well again and at the moment there is no difference between right and left strength and mobility. But that’s enough of blaa blaa blaa. Luckily with my knowledge about physiotherapy I have been able to work on this and have made some really nice improvement strenghtening my rotator cuffs especially the external rotators, the posterior deltoideus part, the rhomboideus muscles and the trapezius especially the transversus part and the serratus anterior muscle also. I have also started to really manage my latissimus dorsi and the trapezius ascendes (lower part) and keep the isometric contraction during bench press. All of these stabilizing muscles during bench press improve and target the pectoralis major far better giving it the best biomechanical position and increasing its motion width. So, I hope my pecs are bigger after the cycle. Naturally I have also plenty of other movements targeting the pecs because I’ve read from t-nations articles that bench press is not the best movement if wishing for more pectoralis major hypertrophy.

Okay, here are the pictures. These are taken two weeks before the first pin.

biceps
biceps.jpg747×1328 98.5 KB
back
back.jpg1200×1600 178 KB
front
front.jpg1200×1600 229 KB

#11

Having a nice weekend? Nice.

I am doing here some calculations considering my omna dosing during my cycle. So, here we go again, unfortunately for lazy readers xD. So first I ordere 12 ampules (trustworthy and mine are legit, have really been feeling it in many sectors of life besides during workout, recovering speed etc.) I feel goood, in a way natural way =) no overdriven. First week I felt some pretty nice euphoria and couldnt look at people or otherwise I has cracked into a big laugh! One time was hard to keep it in when I was riding a bus stuffed with passangers to its extreme. Couldnt keep my laugh xD Now to the relevant point:

I stated in my first post omna for weeks 1-10 500mg/wk. Now I’ll maybe modify it alittle bit. Please give me ANYONE opinions of the folowing next three alternatives. One s a 8-week programme which I list, but think its too short.

The original was wk 1-10 500/wk + pct

8(+2)wks cycle
wk 1-2 500/wk
wk 3-8 660/wk (250 e3d)
(wk9-10) 250/wk
+pct

9wks cycle
wk 1-2 500/wk
wk 3-7 600/wk (250 e3d)
wk 8-9 500/wk
+pct

10wks cycle
wk 1-2 500/wk
wk 3-6 560/wk
wk 7-9 500/wk
wk 10 250/wk
+pct

I use arimidex .25 EOD. Think that’s a good dose. Have been taking .5 two days in a row and at a separate day, my bp hits isolated hypertansion (sometimes my diastolic raises too much also. Then I have tried .25EOD which is better but gives me still a little bit too high blood pressure. And from now I’ll try the .25 EOD method. I have the feeling of dosing .25eod will be just right for me, or .25eod. Some dont favour to use any AI during cycle, just if needed. We’ll see.

Maybe I would prefer the 9wks cycle with the 5wk long 100mg/wk test raise at weeks 3-7. I have understood that omnadren kicks really in is during week 3(-4). So I would raise it for this period dropping it back to 500/wk at week 8 for two weeks, weeks 8-9. I would profit more from the propionate ester with e3d dosing at the most efficience/critical/important(?) phase of cycle (where the omadren kicks full power in) and this 5-week higher dosing would keep my T levels higher for a certain amount of time because of the longer esters. And does one week 9vs10 matter at this point? Maybe take a “tapering week” with a 1x250mg omna shot? I like the idea of 1-2 500, 3-7 600 (e3d), 8-9 500, 10 250 with adex 1-10 .25 eod.

Than I need advice with pct: 2 weeks after last shot. Let’s say Im doing this 9+1wk cycle. I’ll do my last pin on thursday 28.12 (week10: 1x250). So shall I start counting the “gap weeks” from monday 1.1.2018 meaning strating PCT would take place on monday the 15th january?

Do I take the AI during those two weeks (what are these weeks called separating pct start from last pin…?) and if yes, at which dose? I assume I should start taking nolva on 15.1.2018, for four entire weeks? Tamoxifen citrate lowers anastrozole’s effeciency so should I take it a higher dose or drop it? What are the tamoxifen doses? I have ordered 60x10mg in total 600mg. Should arrive next week. I try to plan a efficient PCT below so correct and advice me on this BY ALL MEANS. I’d be greatful for people to enlighten me with pct’s and critizising my cycle options and AI dose or whether to take it just if necessary.

Okay post cycle therapy plans for aforementioned cycle options, particularly the 9+1 (10wk) cycle =)

arimidex…wk 11-12 .25EOD
nolvadex…wk 13-16 30/20/20/10
6-bromoandrestenedione…wk 13-16 50/50/50/50
nalmefene…wk 13-16 5-1 2x/wk

OR

arimidex same
nolvadexwk…wk 13-16 20/20/20/10
6-bromoandrestenedione…wk 13-16 100/100/50/50
nalmefene…wk 13-16 .5-1 2x/wk

+other stuff inter alia d-vitamin, zinc,mucuna pruriens, maybe order BLR rebirth with e. cottonii and ellagic acid…well, we’ll see

So yeah, feel free to answer. All of you on this pharma forum: YOU MUST ANSWER! xD No, just kidding, lame joke. Actually I wanted specifically from physioLojik help about the opioid antagonist thing, and the AI use vs nolva use during cycle and overall endocrinologist’s medical and trustworthy opinion. BUT that doesn’t mean no one else is wished for to answer. I think many here know about planning a cycle and how to do a proper pct.

So I REALLY am wishing for answers guys. What about the cycle alternatives? What about pct?

Kiitos! Yrittäkää nyt joku vastata mulle, eiks jeh? :wink:

Moi Moi

#12

You have alot of good thought into this, I would do 500g for 10wk, followed by a good pctalso I would preference aromasin over adex, adex can give too many sides. Also tamoxifen at 20mg a day.should work.

@physioLojik hey brother while I’m here little hijack. What do you think of the 2nd gen or whatever they are called SERMs like ralox and Clomid over nolvadex?

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#13

So, how does my pct look like? Something to improve or totally do different? Is hcg necessary, I mean does it make a noticable difference, it’s kinda expensive but it’s also my body and health so…

#14

Can I also go without the AI during cycle and if I get bloated/some sidesoccur, start it? Because I think that it’s the AI that is heightening my bp. The tamoxifen I have actually saved for the pct, maybe I could order more.

#15

You can, but remember to have some on hand. Also pct I would stick with nolvadex and aromasin nolva for the LH fsh production and aromasin for the possible e rebound as well as off production.

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#16

How about the diet? Refering to myself earlier my goal is to get some lean mass, bring the body fat down and build myself symmetric. So it’s not to blow up like a blowfish by dirty bulking.

Considering my goal would it be reasonable to clean bulk five days out of the week and going two days in a deficit mode. I was thinking of this because of the body’s way to search always for homeostasis.

I don’t count my calories, I estimate them. I count my protein intake and consume 250-300g/d. For my weight it’s in between 2,6-3,2g/kg. I don’t eat alot of carbs if I do it’s always long-chained (right word?). How much should I actually eat carbs? I totally try to avoid saturated fats.

These are some of the foods I eat:

salmon, chicken (breast), pork, whey protein, bcaa
cottage cheese, buttermilk 0% fat, (milk)
vegetable blends, broccoli, mushrooms, tomatoes, spinach, different salads, corn salad etc.
onion, garlic
nuts, almonds
sometimes 2x/w fruits apple, banana, ananas
pasta,rice, maltodextrin, bread (4x/w at breakfeast, it’s rye bread)
olive oil, fish oil
supplements

These came into my mind at first. It’s alot of green and colourful stuff with somekind of meat or fish and milk products. Sometimes there are moments I crave for some carbs and I get a croissant so maybe I should up my carbs. Actually in the beginning it was difficult to drop the carbs, I had already been on a low carb diet, but I ate too much sugar the first week but have been able to drop that also. Some nights couple of pieces of dark chocolate (70%).

I try to eat carbs more if I notice there hasnt been alot of them in my diet during the day so I made pasta yesterday to get enough.

Question is: WHAT IS ENOUGH, WHAT IS TOO MUCH? (in grams) =D

Cheers!

#17

And thanks for your answers, norse_str3ngth! I really appreciate it! Liked your posts =)

I also try to keep my posts shorter in future =S

#18

Keep it simple, like 2g per lb of bw for protein, alternate .5/1/2 50gr per lb of bw for carbs fats keep them around 50 or so on refeed days bump fat to 100 or more depending on tolerance to heavy food. Keep carbs around the training session. Maximizing pre intra and post, and post post

I could go into way more detail, but that would require a few lol other than this

#19

Didn’t catch the carb thing exactly. On one day .5g/lb, one day 1g/lb and 2g/lb, alternating?. And these are for lbs, not for kilos? And fats 50g per day, traiing days 100g/day?

#20

For carbs you have the idea, fats stay at 50g all days unless you really drained and are having issues with increases in strength. Then for about 3days bump it up to 100gr. But like I said it cost money to get a much more detailed plan bud. There is quite a bit of info for this on tnation.