My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

[nz6stringaxe]

Good information, fotakou.

Alright all, I’ve been extremely frustrated as of late. My current goal has been fat loss, and I’ve taken numerous progressive steps to achieve it. However, the results over the past THREE months are hardly worth the effort I’ve put forth to figuring this out.

I just began my second week training with CT’s War Room Strategies: Destroying FAT program. My average caloric intake has been 1900-2300 at least since the beginning of February (my 15xBW formula yields 2400 FYI). My carbs are normally 25-40g during the week (not counting green veggies, but counting most other forms of fiber), and on the weekend it was usually an extra 100-120g from 1 shot of 50g dextrose with my PWO drink on both weekend days, plus a few more trace carbs from tomatoes, nuts, etc. My protein intake ranges from about 225g-275g day to day. To yield that caloric range, my fats make up 80-130g of my diet currently.

I have dietary records of everything since I began. I’m fairly active outside of training; biking to school 8-10min one-way about 20 times a week, walking a couple times instead of biking (which takes 20min).

I consume glutamine and BCAA’s with whey protein as my current low-carb PWO (when the dextrose isn’t used). I eat plenty of broccoli, cauliflower, green beans, mushrooms, spinach, zucchini, and bell peppers with my meats. That makes up the bulk of my current diet except for eggs, cottage cheese, peanut butter, flaxseed, and low-carb tortillas.

Like I said, I’m extremely frustrated. I thought this particular diet would be useful in shedding fat, but my calories are already so low. I’m also under the impression that it’s supposed to be far more muscle-preserving. Should I just keep going down? Daily living and training has been hard enough as is on such restriction.

Please give me your thoughts and ideas regarding potential problems I haven’t addressed.

By the way, I keep restating a line from the AS in my mind, over and over again. I refer to when he said “In a few others, I have taken them as low as 1,500 [cal] to see what happens … I will leave them at that level until they ‘lean out’.” Why the hell am I not seeing anything lean out, it makes me so frustrated with this diet! (If you’ve ever seen Raising The Bar, Dave talks about eating 6 foods that “work”: tuna, egg whites, chicken breast, oats, brown rice/yams, and bananas. He gets shredded to shit with protein and carbs while I’m trying to make this work with protein and fats with NO apparent incentive to imply it has any merit.)

I have faith in Mauro DiPasquale. He was pretty lean in one picture in the AS. I just want to know what I’m doing wrong and why it seems to be so fundamental as to yield such piss poor results!

[bulgarian]

[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:
Good information, fotakou.

Alright all, I’ve been extremely frustrated as of late. My current goal has been fat loss, and I’ve taken numerous progressive steps to achieve it. However, the results over the past THREE months are hardly worth the effort I’ve put forth to figuring this out.

I just began my second week training with CT’s War Room Strategies: Destroying FAT program. My average caloric intake has been 1900-2300 at least since the beginning of February (my 15xBW formula yields 2400 FYI). My carbs are normally 25-40g during the week (not counting green veggies, but counting most other forms of fiber), and on the weekend it was usually an extra 100-120g from 1 shot of 50g dextrose with my PWO drink on both weekend days, plus a few more trace carbs from tomatoes, nuts, etc. My protein intake ranges from about 225g-275g day to day. To yield that caloric range, my fats make up 80-130g of my diet currently.

I have dietary records of everything since I began. I’m fairly active outside of training; biking to school 8-10min one-way about 20 times a week, walking a couple times instead of biking (which takes 20min).

I consume glutamine and BCAA’s with whey protein as my current low-carb PWO (when the dextrose isn’t used). I eat plenty of broccoli, cauliflower, green beans, mushrooms, spinach, zucchini, and bell peppers with my meats. That makes up the bulk of my current diet except for eggs, cottage cheese, peanut butter, flaxseed, and low-carb tortillas.

Like I said, I’m extremely frustrated. I thought this particular diet would be useful in shedding fat, but my calories are already so low. I’m also under the impression that it’s supposed to be far more muscle-preserving. Should I just keep going down? Daily living and training has been hard enough as is on such restriction.

Please give me your thoughts and ideas regarding potential problems I haven’t addressed.

By the way, I keep restating a line from the AS in my mind, over and over again. I refer to when he said “In a few others, I have taken them as low as 1,500 [cal] to see what happens … I will leave them at that level until they ‘lean out’.” Why the hell am I not seeing anything lean out, it makes me so frustrated with this diet! (If you’ve ever seen Raising The Bar, Dave talks about eating 6 foods that “work”: tuna, egg whites, chicken breast, oats, brown rice/yams, and bananas. He gets shredded to shit with protein and carbs while I’m trying to make this work with protein and fats with NO apparent incentive to imply it has any merit.)

I have faith in Mauro DiPasquale. He was pretty lean in one picture in the AS. I just want to know what I’m doing wrong and why it seems to be so fundamental as to yield such piss poor results![/quote]

Your not doing anything wrong, you just havent found the right thing for you. There are people that just get shredded eating as much carbs as they like and there are those that must pay careful attention to what they eat. You said you’ve only done the program for 2 weeks? that might not be enough time for your body to adapt and for you to start seeing result.

I’ve done lots of different diets, i got fairly lean on eating high protein moderate carbs (down to 8%bf from 15) low fat approach but i decided 5 weeks before my show to switch to the get shredded diet by Berardi, it produced fantastic results. It got me super lean and since my show, i’ve been following Dipasquale’s anabolic diet. I’ve gained 45lbs in a year still fairly lean (still see all my abs).

Its really easy for me to drop weight eating this way. Literarly 3 weeks of cutting mycalories down to 2500 (from 4000) gets me 10-12bs lighter and much leaner i feel no cravings.

I really recomend this diet but i think to make it work for you, check out Berardi’s get shredded diet and do it for 6-8 weeks. Its a bit extreme but man it works. After that slowly ease into the anabolic diet. CT’s stuff is good but i havent really done anything besides read them so i have no personal experience with it. But you know what, time you have and if whatever you try doesnt produce the result you want, you’ve discovered another way not to use in order to get you to your goal. Keep plugging away and if it doesnt work change it up.

[nz6stringaxe]

No, I’m just beginning my second week of CT’s program. I’ve been ADing for 3 months.

The only thing that produced staggering results for me so far was two weeks on the V-Diet in September. Just that concept though…two weeks. Two weeks and I saw HUGE change. I felt HORRIBLE, but the change was unbelievable. Compared to what I’ve been doing, it doesn’t quite add up, you know.

I have considered Get Shredded before. For one, I love John Berardi and would follow him off a cliff haha. I remember reading Get Shredded a few years ago, before I’d reached my peak insanity, and thought IT was insanity. I glanced at it within the last year and thought, “This doesn’t look that bad at all compared to what I’m willing to and have endured…” Perhaps I will try it. I guess pulling myself out of the AD would be the next goal. Although I haven’t made any decisions yet, do you have any suggestions regarding transferring yourself from the AD to anything else? Gradual reintroduction of carbs and/or calories?

(Great picture by the way, you came in looking good)

[nz6stringaxe]

I just read through Get Shredded again, and I must say I’m pretty disillusioned by observing its similarities to my current dietary practices on the AD.

The biggest change to be made is yanking out about 120g of protein and maybe a few grams of fat to get the calories down to a more ‘ridiculous’ level. Besides that, the supplement list, including HOT-ROX Extreme (which I just picked up to keep on reserve until the battle gets too heavy) is the only other thing that’s really different.

Switching to the Get Shredded plan seems like it wouldn’t be beneficial though because I’ve been running on this calorie restriction for many weeks now. I get the impression Get Shredded is far more productive as a sudden cut from a healthy, active, well-fed metabolism. I’m sure mine is running a bit slowly at the moment.

[Evil1]

[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:
Good information, fotakou.

Alright all, I’ve been extremely frustrated as of late. My current goal has been fat loss, and I’ve taken numerous progressive steps to achieve it. However, the results over the past THREE months are hardly worth the effort I’ve put forth to figuring this out.

I just began my second week training with CT’s War Room Strategies: Destroying FAT program. My average caloric intake has been 1900-2300 at least since the beginning of February (my 15xBW formula yields 2400 FYI). My carbs are normally 25-40g during the week (not counting green veggies, but counting most other forms of fiber),
[/quote]

Count every carb you ingest. Atleast in the intro phases. The ‘free’ greens come in after you’ve been on for a while

[quote]and on the weekend it was usually an extra 100-120g from 1 shot of 50g dextrose with my PWO drink on both weekend days, plus a few more trace carbs from tomatoes, nuts, etc. My protein intake ranges from about 225g-275g day to day. To yield that caloric range, my fats make up 80-130g of my diet currently.
[/quote]

Are you sure that fits with the p/f ratios?

I consume glutamine and BCAA’s with whey protein as my current low-carb PWO (when the dextrose isn’t used). I eat plenty of broccoli, cauliflower, green beans, mushrooms, spinach, zucchini, and bell peppers with my meats. That makes up the bulk of my current diet except for eggs, cottage cheese, peanut butter, flaxseed, and low-carb tortillas.

whey and BCAA’s stimulate insulin release and glutamine will replenish muscle glycogen to an extent.
The central scheme of the AD is to not have a rise in insulin at all during the week.
Again this would be ok AFTER you have been on for 2-3 months

The veggies you listed are fine, but I would be careful with the bell peppers, mushrooms and broccoli. the carbs in those add up really fast.
lc tortillas should not become a crutch. use carefully and sporadically.

Like I said, I’m extremely frustrated. I thought this particular diet would be useful in shedding fat, but my calories are already so low. I’m also under the impression that it’s supposed to be far more muscle-preserving. Should I just keep going down? Daily living and training has been hard enough as is on such restriction.

Don’t cut any cals. Set protein at 1-1.2 gm. make sure you get at least 50% cals from fat.
Drop the BCAA’s and glutamine PWO. Take Whey in Heavy Cream if you must have something.

Please give me your thoughts and ideas regarding potential problems I haven’t addressed.

By the way, I keep restating a line from the AS in my mind, over and over again. I refer to when he said “In a few others, I have taken them as low as 1,500 [cal] to see what happens … I will leave them at that level until they ‘lean out’.” Why the hell am I not seeing anything lean out, it makes me so frustrated with this diet! (If you’ve ever seen Raising The Bar, Dave talks about eating 6 foods that “work”: tuna, egg whites, chicken breast, oats, brown rice/yams, and bananas. He gets shredded to shit with protein and carbs while I’m trying to make this work with protein and fats with NO apparent incentive to imply it has any merit.)

Same here, I was pretty lean eating tuna and whole grain rye bread with plenty of fruit (45p/45c/5f). But it was onerous and tedious. I am now the same bf, but feeling much better.

[quote]
I have faith in Mauro DiPasquale. He was pretty lean in one picture in the AS. I just want to know what I’m doing wrong and why it seems to be so fundamental as to yield such piss poor results![/quote]

Seriously just stick to the bare bones plan. 30gm a day for 5 days. then carb-up.

Are you taking any supps? A lot of them have hidden carbs. most vit c chewables have some kind of sugar. chewing gum has sorbitol.
COUNT EVERYTHING.

[KingIndy]

NZ, read your post on the way home and waited until after my workout to respond. I was going to tell you to read the “Get Shredded Diet” and I come back and it has been suggested. However, I was going to reference the Get Shredded Diet, 1) because I know you really believe in him but mostly 2) to point out that you can go lower on your calorie intake.

I was slowly lowering my calories and after being at 2100 last week, I lowered it to 1800 this week to follow the Get Shredded Diet caloricly. I am keeping myself well under 30g of carbs a day with all vegetable intake coming from Greens+ and lots of spinach. You probably need to lower your calories to 1600 calories (It is going to suck but you shouldn’t need more than 4 weeks at your leanness.)

However, before you drop your calories off the cliff, sounds to me like you need a refeed to boost your metabolism since you’ve been calorie restricting for awhile. Take in 3500-4000 calories immediately and then start the 1600 kcals a day. When you do the refeed, I know its not in your style to do it dirty which is good, but make sure atleast 50% of your calories are coming from high quality carbs that will turn into glucose. Leptin responds to glucose and will boost your metabolism much more effectively. Plus, you’ll restore your glycogen levels and avoid too much fat gain. Don’t gorge though as your body can only absorb so much glycogen per hour. You will gain weight, but little of it should be from fat and will come right back off as you drain your glycogen stores.

When you switch back to the hypocaloric diet (hopefully with recharged metabolism) the next day, make sure atleast half those calories are coming from fat, cut down your protein. You want to make sure your body is using that fat and avoid as much glucogenesis as possible.

Also, I would recommend stopping the dextrose post workout and switch to a 25g serving of maltodextrin. It won’t absorb as quickly into your system and thus won’t be as likely to be stored as fat as your body doesn’t know what to do with all of it. Honestly, I’m starting to think its better not to workout at all on the carb refeed days, but I do when my schedule requires it.

BTW, my body fat is coming down following this diet. I’m going to do a refeed this Saturday, my muscles are extremely flat right now.

[nz6stringaxe]

Thanks a lot for your in-depth responses guys.

Evil, I’ve been on for about 3 months. I feel like I should be able to brush off the veg carbs, and if I truly can’t, then I think this diet is absolute garbage on the grounds that vegetables are nutritious and all-around great, and any limiting of their intake to adhere to some dietary practice is absurd.

I believe it fits the P/F ratios…are you suggesting it doesn’t?

I’m curious as to what do you think of CT’s low-carb PWO recommendations and why.

I’m pretty good with finding hidden carbs, so none of what you mentioned on that should be a problem. I do give my tortillas a funny look, though.

Regarding protein and dropping calories, the book states to remove calories in the form of fat and if anything, boost protein HIGHER while doing so! What do you have to say to that? It seems to be the opposite of your specific recommendation.

Indy.
I’m glad you mentioned this on the GS diet. I was thinking to myself what the best way to go about a transition would be but could only rationalize “I’m screwed.” Haha, so just a one-day refeed would suffice, you think?

I’ve thought about gluconeogenesis a little regarding my protein intake since it IS high. It’s not easy to really observe the effects of it directly.

You really think just the (currently) one-day dextrose hit would be too harsh? I’ve thought about the potentially extreme effects of carbs since they’re ‘unfamiliar’ to the metabolism now, but it’s all just guessing. Where would you find bulk maltodextrin? I get my dextrose for like $20/10lb from bodybuilding.com.

Finally, do you have any pictures either recent or within the last year?

Thanks a lot for your help, guys. Thank god for this thread and it’s persistent lifespan, otherwise figuring out the AD would be quite a problem.

[bulgarian]

[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:
No, I’m just beginning my second week of CT’s program. I’ve been ADing for 3 months.

The only thing that produced staggering results for me so far was two weeks on the V-Diet in September. Just that concept though…two weeks. Two weeks and I saw HUGE change. I felt HORRIBLE, but the change was unbelievable. Compared to what I’ve been doing, it doesn’t quite add up, you know.

I have considered Get Shredded before. For one, I love John Berardi and would follow him off a cliff haha. I remember reading Get Shredded a few years ago, before I’d reached my peak insanity, and thought IT was insanity. I glanced at it within the last year and thought, “This doesn’t look that bad at all compared to what I’m willing to and have endured…” Perhaps I will try it. I guess pulling myself out of the AD would be the next goal. Although I haven’t made any decisions yet, do you have any suggestions regarding transferring yourself from the AD to anything else? Gradual reintroduction of carbs and/or calories?

(Great picture by the way, you came in looking good)[/quote]

Thanks! The get shredded diet is very similar to the anabolic diet but with one carb up every two weeks and for me it was 5weeks out and crunch time so i gave it a try. I will do it again for my next competition in the last 4-5 weeks. It really made a huge difference. I was already very lean before i started and after it was fairly easy to adjust to anabolic diet. I mean carbing up twice a week was heaven compared to eating 2000 calories for 2 weeks and 1 carb up day.

My biggest recomendation would be to eat salmon and brocolli with olive oil. That really helped me. Also take 10g of BCAA and 5g creatine i know he says if your < 200 to take less but it will keep you sane. Its simple 4 meals per day 60% fats 35% pretty much same as anabolic diet. (Thats what i did Berardi recomends a little different) on my carb up i ate 2 large pizzas

How are you looking right now. What bf % do you think you are and how low do you want to get? any competitions in mind?

[Evil1]

[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:
Evil, I’ve been on for about 3 months. I feel like I should be able to brush off the veg carbs, and if I truly can’t, then I think this diet is absolute garbage on the grounds that vegetables are nutritious and all-around great, and any limiting of their intake to adhere to some dietary practice is absurd.
[/quote]

Did you just start the PWO shake or have you had it in since the start?
Mainly, did you stick to the plan ‘by the book’ for at least 2 months?
you are correct on the fact that limiting veggies is not the ideal way to do things.
But keep in mind that this is your cutting phase. It is temporary. As such, you need to optimize variables for that short period for performance.
It is not of little concern the rest of the time.

I believe it fits the P/F ratios…are you suggesting it doesn’t?

It didn’t seem like fat was a higher %. is it 50/50? my mistake if it is.

I’m curious as to what do you think of CT’s low-carb PWO recommendations and why.

Personally, I don’t think CT’s low-carb PWO recommendations are as relevant on the AD. The reasons are simple:

• CT uses low-carb plans for a short term. He goes back to higher carb after he is done cutting. eg: he also uses medium chain fatty acids to cook, something not recommended at the start of the AD.
  i.e. long-term adaptation is not his goal as it is for someone on the AD.
• When he did go low-carb for an extended period, he did so without the all day weekly carb-up. My contention is that if you are on long term keto and not doing the carb-up then CT’s recommendations are great. But when you add in the carb-up and the small insulin increases during the week, I find it hard to imagine complete adaptation to fat will effectively take place in the long-term.
• CT’s carb-up/refeed window is smaller. He mentions having maybe just one cheat meal a week (burger n fries). Also, he consumes a higher amount of carbs during the week (50gm) and takes leucine, BCAA’s to raise insulin PWO.
• The basic premise of the AD is insulin suppression during the week. then insulin spikes on the weekend. a phase shift diet. rather than timed insulin. Studies are pretty clear in that BCAA’s raise insulin and glutamine can replenish muscle glycogen.
• If you go back to earlier in this thread, there is a discussion about the efficacy of PWO shakes on the AD given that the diet is protein sparing. Most of those guys report taking nothing more than whey+heavy cream PWO. plus whey already has BCAA’s.
• The base difference is in the end-goal’s of DiPasquale and CT. DiPasquale laid it out as a lifestyle, where CT uses it as a very effective tool in cutting (more palumbo-esque).

I’m pretty good with finding hidden carbs, so none of what you mentioned on that should be a problem. I do give my tortillas a funny look, though.

They do tend to be a ‘You-Mileage-May-Vary’ type of product.

Regarding protein and dropping calories, the book states to remove calories in the form of fat and if anything, boost protein HIGHER while doing so! What do you have to say to that? It seems to be the opposite of your specific recommendation.

Don’t know what to tell ya. That is the general prescription. But try this, just cut cals overall, not from any specific macro. See if that works.
And, if fat-fasts (80% fat + v low cals) etc are any indicator, an excess of fats may prod your metabolism to burn more fat.

Question: What is your macro split after you add in the cals from veggies? Does protein come out higher than the rest?

[KingIndy]

[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:
Indy.
I’m glad you mentioned this on the GS diet. I was thinking to myself what the best way to go about a transition would be but could only rationalize “I’m screwed.” Haha, so just a one-day refeed would suffice, you think?

I’ve thought about gluconeogenesis a little regarding my protein intake since it IS high. It’s not easy to really observe the effects of it directly.

You really think just the (currently) one-day dextrose hit would be too harsh? I’ve thought about the potentially extreme effects of carbs since they’re ‘unfamiliar’ to the metabolism now, but it’s all just guessing. Where would you find bulk maltodextrin? I get my dextrose for like $20/10lb from bodybuilding.com.

Finally, do you have any pictures either recent or within the last year?

Thanks a lot for your help, guys. Thank god for this thread and it’s persistent lifespan, otherwise figuring out the AD would be quite a problem.
[/quote]

At the very least I would cut your dextrose to 25g servings. I have read instances of people fattening up on dextrose compared to maltodextrin. Malto is more effective anyways. You can get it off of amazon for cheap in 7 lbs. and there are a couple other sources.

I took some pics a couple weeks ago when I was at about 12% at 190 lbs. I should be down to around 10% by the weekend. I’ll see if I can get some updated ones this weekend.

I think a one day refeed should suffice as long as you get enough caloies and don’t work out. You haven’t gone that drastically low, so it should be good to go.

In regards to BCAA, while cutting I take Luecine and KIC preworkout and a half dose in the morning for their anti-catabolic properties and to keep me sane during this hypocaloric stage.

I think a big key is Omega 3’s as well. I am taking two servings of Flameout a day, omega 3 eggs, omega 3 peanut butter, flax oil, and I just switched from tuna to salmon this week at the grocery. Although I use olive oil instead of flax oil post workout for the monounsaturated fats instead of the polyunsaturated.

[nz6stringaxe]

EDIT: This thread sucks size-wise.

[nz6stringaxe]

EDIT: Ditto

[nz6stringaxe]

Having serious post difficulty.

Bulgarian:
Ha, my ‘crunch time’ crutch was 2 weeks of the V-Diet, straying a bit from the supplement list, but still with amazing results.

I was thinking quite a bit about the BCAA-creatine combo as it seems so peculiar, and especially since he made the comment about being night and day. For your carb up with the pizzas, do you worry about your fat content? I can’t help but feel like I should always follow the no-mixing of carbs with fats concept heralded by Berardi to the best of my ability.

It’s funny you ask my bodyfat because I’ve been trying to wrestle with what it truly is. I have this back and forth association with bodyfat % ranges. It also doesn’t help that I see pictures of people with the ‘same bf’ that look SO different in skin quality (soft/hard).

Here are my numbers that I go back and forth between for what I am right now: 17-18% if I’m right to think higher, 12-14% if it really isn’t that bad, and my Accumeasure calipers in conjunction with my Tanita scale would suggest about 12%. The weird thing about the scale is this ‘athlete mode’.

That will give me the lower number, while regularly, it’s the higher range.

My profile avatar doesn’t look much different from me right now, but if anything I’m slightly softer. I was watching youtube vids last night of off-season bodybuilders and I realized that’s what I look like, minus 100lbs.

My veins don’t protrude very well (but I was never exceptionally vascular), my abs have visible oulines as well as my quads. Seriously, the off-season lean, healthy looks the big guys were holding (not Lee Priest) were pretty on-par with the way I’m looking.

As far as where I want to be, I want to be impressed. I imagine somewhere single-digit from 7-10% depending on what it looks like. I want to be at LEAST as lean as I was for my contest, but preferably leaner. This whole fatloss thing right now is being approached sort of as ‘practice’. I HAVE to know I can do it and how.

If I have one trick that works, I can experiment later, but I need at least ONE plan. Preparing for my show was like…such a stress. I just kind of felt it out to the best of my ability having no real prior experience.

Right now though, no contests. I don’t want to compete again until they can’t recognize me. I’d rather pull my bodyfat down to really nice levels before embarking on a heavy mass phase so I can better learn to manage the fat gain and won’t feel so bad as it climbs a little.

[nz6stringaxe]

Evil, the pwo shake has been in since the beginning for the most part, but it didn’t always have glutamine since I was out for a while. It always had whey protein and creatine.

The fat ratios were pretty on point, +/- 3%.
I’ll mention that despite another mental struggle between calculation variables, that is, using 4 or 4.5cal/gram for pro and carb, I’ve been using 4.5.

Using this ratio with veggies included, this may come out with protein being no more than a few points higher percentage wise. However, using the 4cal/gram, the fat to protein is right on, just about equal. I’ve kept this in mind pretty carefully throughout my logs.

Indy: I’ve used today as my refeed with a great deal of carbs coming from oats, fruits (banana, berries, cherries), quinoa, dextrose… My fat today has been moderately low but I think I’ll fix that within the next few hours. I kind of rolled my eyes reading your words: “and don’t work out”.

Today was a chest/back strength session along with alactic sprints. I figured putting this on a training day would merely give me more reason to eat as much as I could. Thoughts? I’m aiming for 4,000.

Alright so I typed all three of those posts like, six times each, so if I didn’t address anything, just mention it.

[bulgarian]

[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:
Having serious post difficulty.

Bulgarian:
Ha, my ‘crunch time’ crutch was 2 weeks of the V-Diet, straying a bit from the supplement list, but still with amazing results.

I was thinking quite a bit about the BCAA-creatine combo as it seems so peculiar, and especially since he made the comment about being night and day. For your carb up with the pizzas, do you worry about your fat content?

I can’t help but feel like I should always follow the no-mixing of carbs with fats concept heralded by Berardi to the best of my ability.

It’s funny you ask my bodyfat because I’ve been trying to wrestle with what it truly is. I have this back and forth association with bodyfat % ranges. It also doesn’t help that I see pictures of people with the ‘same bf’ that look SO different in skin quality (soft/hard).

Here are my numbers that I go back and forth between for what I am right now: 17-18% if I’m right to think higher, 12-14% if it really isn’t that bad, and my Accumeasure calipers in conjunction with my Tanita scale would suggest about 12%. The weird thing about the scale is this ‘athlete mode’.

That will give me the lower number, while regularly, it’s the higher range.

My profile avatar doesn’t look much different from me right now, but if anything I’m slightly softer. I was watching youtube vids last night of off-season bodybuilders and I realized that’s what I look like, minus 100lbs.

My veins don’t protrude very well (but I was never exceptionally vascular), my abs have visible oulines as well as my quads. Seriously, the off-season lean, healthy looks the big guys were holding (not Lee Priest) were pretty on-par with the way I’m looking.

As far as where I want to be, I want to be impressed. I imagine somewhere single-digit from 7-10% depending on what it looks like. I want to be at LEAST as lean as I was for my contest, but preferably leaner. This whole fatloss thing right now is being approached sort of as ‘practice’. I HAVE to know I can do it and how.

If I have one trick that works, I can experiment later, but I need at least ONE plan. Preparing for my show was like…such a stress. I just kind of felt it out to the best of my ability having no real prior experience.

Right now though, no contests. I don’t want to compete again until they can’t recognize me. I’d rather pull my bodyfat down to really nice levels before embarking on a heavy mass phase so I can better learn to manage the fat gain and won’t feel so bad as it climbs a little.[/quote]

Well if you see visible ab outline i’d say your 12 or lower. Poliquin said something about that too,abs being a decent estimate of bf %. In your pic you look pretty good a bit hard to tell bf because your very white.

I am in the same boat as you im 215 at around 10-11%bf (my tantita scale is bull at my competition it showed me at 14…so i started ignoring it) measured by calipers. I will cut back to 6-7 in the next 3 months and possible compete in july 21 (havent made my mind up exactly).

My plan is to do the anabolic diet with 3700-4000 calories for a few weeks but cut out all stimulants (coffees and energy drinks) and then slowly decrease my calories and last 4 weeks ill do the get shredded diet from 6% to get me down to 4. Lower than 4 might be counterproductive for a natural, have to preserve all the muscle i;ve got.

So far i’ve actually lost 0.5 lbs in the past 4 days eating 4000cals which is way above my maintanance ithought.

The goal is to stop taking BCAA’s (since they produce insulinc response) and stick to strictly AD principles (never done that i always had too much BCAA’s and too much stimulants stupid sugar free energy drinks). Slowly after the next 3-4 weeks i’ll cut back on calories 300-400per and won’t do anything extreme. This will sort of reset my body and when i do follow the get shredded diet along with all the stimulants, it will be alot more productive.

For you i’d recommend the same thing. start off on 3500 calories have 70% calories from fat 25% from protein and the rest veggies. ( I never counted calories from broccoli or spinach btw.

I have huge heaps of broccoli even pre contest) and just observe your body without judgement for 2 weeks. Its important that you just observe how it changes and note it down but do not be judgemental about it. After 2 weeks, you carb up for the first time and then make a game plan. After that its carb up every week for 2 days.

When i had the pizzas, i didnt care i could see myself getting leaner every day and it was my only carb up before my show (excluding the last day of carb loading but that was more planned). I remember feeling sooo full but my veins were popping everywhere lol. Next day i looked amazing, almost better than i did at competition…

Patience is the key and i tried and succeeded at getting lean fast I dropped like 20lbs in 4 weeks a few months back but im not satisfied, i didnt build a good enough habbit of maintaining low body fat % with good nutrition. I’d always end up cheating and just stuffing my face up beyond belief. that cant be good for me.

I’d rather develop a lifestyle than find a quick fix so thats what i’ll do.Try out what i said about the anabolic diet and just 2 weeks of observing without judgement. Cut out hte BCAA’s forget about CT or Berardi and just observe how your body responds.

[nz6stringaxe]

Alright I may try that after I give the get shredded caloric levels a test run first.

What about a pwo that just contains a whey isolate and creatine? Do the BCAA’s in just a scoop of whey matter or should I just eat after my training?

[Evil1]

[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:
Alright I may try that after I give the get shredded caloric levels a test run first.

What about a pwo that just contains a whey isolate and creatine? Do the BCAA’s in just a scoop of whey matter or should I just eat after my training?[/quote]

Take the whey with some fat. there was some discussion earlier about how, heavy cream/fat PWO will not significantly slow down absorption.
However, I live pretty close to my gym and instead of a PWO shake I just have my meal. if you want to try a meal instead, I suggest taking some nuts and cold shredded meat w/ spicy seasoning. tastes sooo good!!

From what I have understood from many many sources is that whey on its own has 15% as BCAA’s and most powders today come with added BCAA’s. So it should not be a problem. Also, given the amount of protein consumption on this diet and the fact that the plan is protein sparing, I personally, do not see a need for BCAA supplementation.

It is worth noting that Berardi has kind of moved away from his p/c and p/f meals.

[KingIndy]

Alright, I’ve got some other points of view in regards to this BCAA talk as well as the PWO nutrition.

If you read the AS, Doc D has a supplementation guide. His first supplement is designed to be taken prior to your workout. It is said to take leucine, glutamine, KIC, and OKG. I take leucine and KIC prior to the workout.

It does stimulate an insulin response, but that is okay in this timeframe because 1, your body is using fat for energy and glycogen depleted, so it is just going to shuttle all these amino acids into your muscles and will not cause fat storage. This compound keeps your body from using its own tissues during the workout and promotes protein synthesis and provides an available amino acid pool. I would continue the BCAA pre workout.

In regards to the PWO shake, I go with a whey blend and a Tbsp of olive oil. You want to get that whey in PWO because it is fast digesting (as long as you have isolate and concentrate in the blend) and the olive oil promotes testosterone levels to balance the cortisol that is released from the workout. You want a fast digesting monounsaturated or saturated fat post workout. Polyunsaturated will not boost testosterone. Then you can have your meal with the longer lasting, slower digesting proteins.

[KingIndy]

Is anyone in favor of starting a Part II thread on this. The speed is extremely cumbersome at this point.

[Evil1]

Indy: excellent point. I had almost forgotten about those. I just have never used anything other than water for the longest time without any lethargy.
I get along fine without anything, but I guess it’s a personal thing.
hows the bulking going? (or was that someone else?)

In other news, I got my Bio Signature analysis done and it confirmed what I have thought for a long time.
My sub-scap was the highest, indicating a lower genetic tolerance for carbs.

If you guys want I can post the rest of the readings