My Experience on the Anabolic Diet Part IV

Diet and Nutrition
21

[quote]tams88 wrote:
Yes 12g over 30g. Good i wont worry then. Ill put up my average days eating as still not sure if eating too much protein in relation to fats by habbit.

  1. 2x boiled eggs, 70g beef, tbs heavy cream with flax ground.
  2. Greek yoghurt with flax, seeds ground.
  3. beef/tuna with avacado and rocket. Maybe little cheese.
  4. walnuts
  5. lamb/ground beef, broccoli
  6. lamb/ground beef, broccoli

Split the last two meals. also i read a while back Pauli said not good to eat dairy as plays havock with blood sugars. was having full fat milk til i read that do you think this would upset my induction phase? Thanks, am glued to this site when not training or eating lol[/quote]

Careful buddy, milk of any kind has a good amount of carbs in it. I might be wrong but i remember it being something like 16g a cup but i haven’t had milk in a LONG time :wink:

Also, I can’t tell by just looking at your meals, but if you said you’re worried about having too much protein you should definitely use something like www.fitday.com to track your diet and make sure you protein/fat ratio is where it should be. This diet is very protein sparing. I weight 175-180 and i try to hit 180g protein per day, no more than 200g which is just 1g/ pound BW. I hear you can eat 0.8-1g / LBM even.

Also, I would eat more greens if you are able. I only see you have two meals containing brocoli, which is good but you should eat more if you are able. This diet is very acidic so you need to eat LOTS of greens to keep your PH levels balanced.

Any more questions just ask away because the few of us that are still posting consistently have read a LOT of the thread and always love helping out a fellow ADer!

22

Hood makes a low carb milk called “Calorie Countdown”. I tried it, wasnt a huge fan, but it would probably do the trick if you are one of those guys who love milk. I think 1 cup has 5g of fat, 3g of carbs, 8g of pro, 90 cals, 3g sugar.

23

pff, feel like shit this week, training goes surprisingly well, but i just dont feel that good all day, besides that, i have a lot of ehm, do you call it heartburn? The acid in my stomac is burning all day… did not experienced this for the last 6 weeks…
thank god its friday, carb up is near and it will NOT be a clean one, i can tell you!

24

Thnks guys. Was measuring milk and only having about 100 ml which is 5g carbs, didnt go over30g a day but even still thought it may have interupted the switch over because of high sugar. Sure i am fully adapted though, do feel good, strong and no cravings, though had bit of a shitty work out today. Looking forward to sunday i have decided on 2 hot cross buns and small bowl of porridge, bet i fall asleep.

25

[quote]tams88 wrote:

Thnks guys. Was measuring milk and only having about 100 ml which is 5g carbs, didnt go over30g a day but even still thought it may have interupted the switch over because of high sugar. Sure i am fully adapted though, do feel good, strong and no cravings, though had bit of a shitty work out today. Looking forward to sunday i have decided on 2 hot cross buns and small bowl of porridge, bet i fall asleep. [/quote]

Haha, sounds good man. I actually forgot tomorrow was a CHO up! I guess that’s good cause I’m not having any cravings or anything either. Gonna wake up to a scoop of whey and tbs of EVOO, then hit the gym with some sprint and a few pullups then start the CHO up! then go back in the p.m. and get in a nice chest workout. I have around 12 FINiBARS, 1.5 tubs of Surge Recovery and 1.5 tubs of Surge Workout Fuel I need to eventually use on these loads lol. AD!

-Adam

26

I started a controlled-carb diet on Monday 1/25/10 to lose body fat and improve insulin resistance, with the idea to transition into the AD diet once I’ve become fully fat-adapted and have reduced BF. My ultimate goal is a total recomp. and to do this right, I want to get BF down to around 10% before starting a bulk (as Pauli has suggested). I have not done a carb-load yet and am planning right now to wait until after next Friday to do so (so 25 days before the first load).

Generally I feel great, have had few cravings and have not been above 20 g / day of carbs yet. Strength and endurance are good. Had my first crappy workout after starting this past Wednesday.

I’ve read the orginal AD book and also thru the previous threads, but now have some questions because I’m confused about some things, mainly ketosis. Up until reading the interview with Dr. D that DH posted here Forums - T Nation - The World's Trusted Community for Elite Fitness I thought ketosis was a good thing.

  1. KetoStix have been purple since day 3 (I’m 18 days into the diet). Is this a problem?

  2. How long does it generally take to become adapted into an efficient fat burner (i.e., so ketones are not strongly detectable in urine)?

  3. If being in ketosis for this long is a problem, what would I need to do to correct it at this point?

  4. Can restricting net carbs to say, below 10 / day, actually prolong becoming fat adapted (I mean do you have to have some carbs each day)?

  5. If the main goal right now is to lose weight and my strength and endurance are not suffering, how long can I reasonably continue w/o a carb-load?

  6. Finally, once I get the carb loading that works for me dialed in, will that actually help me to lose fat, or could that be done by prolonging the first carb load for several weeks?

I haven’t been able to dial in or even track the ratio of fat to protein, but do watch carbs like a hawk. Generally my meals consist of eggs and bacon or sausage in the morning, a chef, cobb or caesar salad for lunch and a steak, burger, chicken breast or 1/2 a rotisserie chicken plus some vegetables such as sauteed mushrooms, broccoli or asparagus for the evening meal. Small snacks of cheese and cold-cuts (like salami) if I get hungry in-between.

I appreciate any feedback, but some from the vets would be great.

Thanks!

27

[quote]FadeIntoBig wrote:
I started a controlled-carb diet on Monday 1/25/10 to lose body fat and improve insulin resistance, with the idea to transition into the AD diet once I’ve become fully fat-adapted and have reduced BF. My ultimate goal is a total recomp. and to do this right, I want to get BF down to around 10% before starting a bulk (as Pauli has suggested). I have not done a carb-load yet and am planning right now to wait until after next Friday to do so (so 25 days before the first load).

Generally I feel great, have had few cravings and have not been above 20 g / day of carbs yet. Strength and endurance are good. Had my first crappy workout after starting this past Wednesday.

I’ve read the orginal AD book and also thru the previous threads, but now have some questions because I’m confused about some things, mainly ketosis. Up until reading the interview with Dr. D that DH posted here Forums - T Nation - The World's Trusted Community for Elite Fitness, I thought ketosis was a good thing.

  1. KetoStix have been purple since day 3 (I’m 18 days into the diet). Is this a problem?

  2. How long does it generally take to become adapted into an efficient fat burner (i.e., so ketones are not strongly detectable in urine)?

  3. If being in ketosis for this long is a problem, what would I need to do to correct it at this point?

  4. Can restricting net carbs to say, below 10 / day, actually prolong becoming fat adapted (I mean do you have to have some carbs each day)?

  5. If the main goal right now is to lose weight and my strength and endurance are not suffering, how long can I reasonably continue w/o a carb-load?

  6. Finally, once I get the carb loading that works for me dialed in, will that actually help me to lose fat, or could that be done by prolonging the first carb load for several weeks?

I haven’t been able to dial in or even track the ratio of fat to protein, but do watch carbs like a hawk. Generally my meals consist of eggs and bacon or sausage in the morning, a chef, cobb or caesar salad for lunch and a steak, burger, chicken breast or 1/2 a rotisserie chicken plus some vegetables such as sauteed mushrooms, broccoli or asparagus for the evening meal. Small snacks of cheese and cold-cuts (like salami) if I get hungry in-between.

I appreciate any feedback, but some from the vets would be great.

Thanks!
[/quote]

Here is my take for your questions:

  1. No idea what purple means, I do know that the honorable DH said to not worry about ketosticks. You should eventually not have ketones in the urine as your body is using them for fuel, but the adaptation takes time.

  2. I think this is pretty dependent on the person and their previous diet. The initial two weeks is to get you in that fat for fuel state, but obviously the longer you stay on it the better it gets. DH acted like the diet gets better the longer you are on it. I would guess you are fat adapted at 18 days.

  3. Being keto that long isn’t really a problem if you have a lot of fat to lose, however, I still think it would be better to throw in a carb load even if its only one day. The longer you prolong the refeed the more at risk you are of losing muscle in my opinion. You will not lose your fat adapted state if you do the refeed properly.

  4. As long as you stay around the 30 grams carb limit you will get the fat adapted state. Lowering it down to 10 will probably not have a significant effect. If anything, it will get you into a fat adapted state (however, I think you are there already if you have had 18 days under 30 grams)

  5. I would just have a healthy carb load. It will boost your metabolism, however, if you have a lot of fat to lose and want to keep going it probably is not a problem. I know when Shelby Starnes did keto for his last show he started out 5 weeks without a carb meal, but he thought that was probably a bit much.

  6. As long as you don’t go overboard on carbs or calories, the carb load will not hinder fat loss and will fuel your training for the week.

28

[quote]ajweins wrote:

[quote]FadeIntoBig wrote:
I started a controlled-carb diet on Monday 1/25/10 to lose body fat and improve insulin resistance, with the idea to transition into the AD diet once I’ve become fully fat-adapted and have reduced BF. My ultimate goal is a total recomp. and to do this right, I want to get BF down to around 10% before starting a bulk (as Pauli has suggested). I have not done a carb-load yet and am planning right now to wait until after next Friday to do so (so 25 days before the first load).

Generally I feel great, have had few cravings and have not been above 20 g / day of carbs yet. Strength and endurance are good. Had my first crappy workout after starting this past Wednesday.

I’ve read the orginal AD book and also thru the previous threads, but now have some questions because I’m confused about some things, mainly ketosis. Up until reading the interview with Dr. D that DH posted here Forums - T Nation - The World's Trusted Community for Elite Fitness, I thought ketosis was a good thing.

  1. KetoStix have been purple since day 3 (I’m 18 days into the diet). Is this a problem?

  2. How long does it generally take to become adapted into an efficient fat burner (i.e., so ketones are not strongly detectable in urine)?

  3. If being in ketosis for this long is a problem, what would I need to do to correct it at this point?

  4. Can restricting net carbs to say, below 10 / day, actually prolong becoming fat adapted (I mean do you have to have some carbs each day)?

  5. If the main goal right now is to lose weight and my strength and endurance are not suffering, how long can I reasonably continue w/o a carb-load?

  6. Finally, once I get the carb loading that works for me dialed in, will that actually help me to lose fat, or could that be done by prolonging the first carb load for several weeks?

I haven’t been able to dial in or even track the ratio of fat to protein, but do watch carbs like a hawk. Generally my meals consist of eggs and bacon or sausage in the morning, a chef, cobb or caesar salad for lunch and a steak, burger, chicken breast or 1/2 a rotisserie chicken plus some vegetables such as sauteed mushrooms, broccoli or asparagus for the evening meal. Small snacks of cheese and cold-cuts (like salami) if I get hungry in-between.

I appreciate any feedback, but some from the vets would be great.

Thanks!
[/quote]

Here is my take for your questions:

  1. No idea what purple means, I do know that the honorable DH said to not worry about ketosticks. You should eventually not have ketones in the urine as your body is using them for fuel, but the adaptation takes time.

  2. I think this is pretty dependent on the person and their previous diet. The initial two weeks is to get you in that fat for fuel state, but obviously the longer you stay on it the better it gets. DH acted like the diet gets better the longer you are on it. I would guess you are fat adapted at 18 days.

  3. Being keto that long isn’t really a problem if you have a lot of fat to lose, however, I still think it would be better to throw in a carb load even if its only one day. The longer you prolong the refeed the more at risk you are of losing muscle in my opinion. You will not lose your fat adapted state if you do the refeed properly.

  4. As long as you stay around the 30 grams carb limit you will get the fat adapted state. Lowering it down to 10 will probably not have a significant effect. If anything, it will get you into a fat adapted state (however, I think you are there already if you have had 18 days under 30 grams)

  5. I would just have a healthy carb load. It will boost your metabolism, however, if you have a lot of fat to lose and want to keep going it probably is not a problem. I know when Shelby Starnes did keto for his last show he started out 5 weeks without a carb meal, but he thought that was probably a bit much.

  6. As long as you don’t go overboard on carbs or calories, the carb load will not hinder fat loss and will fuel your training for the week.

[/quote]

Great information - Thanks!

‘purple’ is as dark as the ketostix get; darker meaning more ketones. You hit the nail on the head with the rest of the response to #1 tho. I’m worried that I’m not burning fats very efficiently because I still have a lot of ketones in my urine. I have noticed tho that after heavy cardio, the color is a lighter shade of dark purple :wink:

29

Hi Guys,

Quick question…

I am bout 143 pounds at the moment.

I have set mu bulking calories to 30000 a week thus aiming at the ideal weight of 190 pounds; this note does include the 15% extra that the good Doctor notes in the AS.

Do you guys think this is a reasonable goal for now?

My body fat % at present is 10.6%.

Let me know your opinions please.

Should say my height is a touch above 6 foot.

Help much appreciated!!!

30

banga

Im not sure if I calculated it right but at 30000 kCals you would be eating almost 30x bw. Keep in mind that your body can only build muscle so quickly and with that amount of excess kCals, you are likely to store it as bodyfat. I would suggest lowering your kCals to around the 25xBW range and see how it goes from there. If your energy is down then I would slowly up them but unless you do 3-a-day WOs this likely wont be an issue. So I would shoot for 3575 kCals per day, giving you a weekly total of 25,025 kCals. I think you are right in wanting to bulk, however gaining muscle takes time. You can gain quickly with the AD so look forward to that but you don’t add fat at the same time. I’m sure you want to lower your BF% as most people as well. There are 2 ways to accomplish this.
1)Lose bodyfat or
2)Increase LBM.

So you will be inherently getting leaner as you get bigger, and this leanness will make you appear even larger. I can’t remember the exact amount of muscle you should aim to gain each week but it shouldn’t be as much as you are dreaming. Somewhere around a 1/2 lb per week of all LBM is an excellent gain. It just doesn’t live up to the advertised hype gains. I think you should read this article, it discusses the topic of trying to bulk too fast.

Happy Carbing Up Every1!!! Time to get huge :slight_smile:

Brian

31

[quote]banga wrote:
Hi Guys,

Quick question…

I am bout 143 pounds at the moment.

I have set mu bulking calories to 30000 a week thus aiming at the ideal weight of 190 pounds; this note does include the 15% extra that the good Doctor notes in the AS.

Do you guys think this is a reasonable goal for now?

My body fat % at present is 10.6%.

Let me know your opinions please.

Should say my height is a touch above 6 foot.

Help much appreciated!!![/quote]

I agree with Airboren on this one. It sounds like you will need some serious calories to put on some size based on your height/weight, but if you jump into the deep end right off the bat, you may lay down some serious body fat.

However, the general rule of thumb is to add about 500 cals to your maintenance cals and go from there. Try this next week, and you should put on about a pound or so. I would do it for a few weeks, check my progress to see if I am gaining fast enough or too fast (getting fat), and adjust from there.

As thin as you are, you will probably continue to bump up your calories over the next few weeks, but I would start off slow and go from there.

Unless you want to get big at all cost, regardless of BF%, at which point just lift heavy and eat whatever you want!

32

[quote]banga wrote:
Hi Guys,

Quick question…

I am bout 143 pounds at the moment.

I have set mu bulking calories to 30000 a week thus aiming at the ideal weight of 190 pounds; this note does include the 15% extra that the good Doctor notes in the AS.

Do you guys think this is a reasonable goal for now?

My body fat % at present is 10.6%.

Let me know your opinions please.

Should say my height is a touch above 6 foot.

Help much appreciated!!![/quote]

AirBoren and Smithers have said it best. I was in the same boat as you are. I’m around 6’1" and weighed in under 140 a little under a year ago. I’ve been lifting hard and eating a lot for the past 6 months or so and am just above 170 now. I started the AD Januray 1st and thought it was the magic diet that would allow me to eat up to 4K a day and stay lean. although it is a great diet, magical maybe ;), you can still gain fat if not eating smart. I would suggest eating 3K on weekdays and maybe 4K on CHO ups, track you’re progress for a couple of weeks and go from there. Or like Smithers said, if you’re just tired of being that skinny dude, lift heavy and EAT! lol

Have you done the induction phase yet?

33

Thinking will prob only have two carb meals of no more than 200g. and clean. What time in the day should i start i thought bout 3 and have cho for last meals. otherwise think i will be asleep all day and get to fat if i start earlier.lol. also should i cut down fat through the whole day or jjust when eating cho. just so you guys know im a girl. lol

34

Hi, I tend to use protein bars for an afternoon snack. During the week I don’t have access to a fridge (in a hotel), but all the protein bars out there are high-carb, low-fat. Anyone know of a good high-fat, low-carb protein bar?

Or is the only alternative to whip up home-made ones? If so, has anyone tried this and got a good recipe?

Thanks
Jason

35

tams-

Well there are a few things to take into account here. One is what is your height, weight, est. bf%?

Also since this is your first carbup after the initial phase I would suggest going for atleast 24 hrs…if not 36. At the beginning of this diet you really want to teach your body the cycle that its going to be doing for the AD “lifestyle”. So it is best to stay as close to the protocol as you can in the beginning. I know it is hard to not deviate, for all of us lol. IMO I think you should definately keep individual meals to no more than 200g and maybe even less for you. I remember reading in the original thread that an average male (180ish) I think can hold ~250g of carbs in their glycogen stores at one time. During the carb load you are burning these carbs for energy as well so you can eat slightly more I believe.

Another important thing to take into account is the amount/type of exercise you plan to do on the weekdays Essentially you are preparing your body by filling up the glycogen for the WO’s through the week. Therefore if you limit the amount of CHO you intake in your carb load you could also be limiting your performance in your workouts, mainly the ones later in the week.

Your body will use glycogen the same whether you have 250g stored or 80g stored. But when there is ~0g of glycogen this is the “point” where your performance starts to suffer. So that leads to the next important question…

What types/amount of exercise do you have planned for the week?

BTW I am new to this diet as well (1 Mo) so if something I said is incorrect please let me know as this is the information I use to try to optimize my diet as well. Just trying to help others, but don’t want to lead them down the wrong path either.

Hope this helps…

Brian

36

Jason,

I have recently been experimenting with homemade AD-friendly recipes as well. This is where the Atkin diet actually benefits us ADers. Youtube Atkin’s recipes and you will find alot of good ideas. Also in the original forum there is a muffin recipe that is out of this world so I will repost it once I find it with its original author as to get credit to this person. So give me a minute lol.

Brian

Nevermind, my computer lost power earlier today and I lost it in my word document collection of AD forum gems, but I will never forget it as long as I live so here it is…and I apologize to the lady to posted this first…excellent recipe and its all yours…lol

1/4 cup of flax meal.
1 teaspoon cinnamon
1/2 teaspoon baking powder.
1 packet of splenda(optional) i dont use this

mix these together in a coffee mug.

next add
1 large egg
1 teaspoon butter.
mix up some more than microwave on high for 1min ( I prefer 1 min and 20sec)…it just depends on your microvave

I also throw some pecans/walnuts in the mix at the end before i mic it. I’d imagine added whey protein couldn’t hurt either if your looking for a whole meal type of thing. Delicious and low carb. I know it sounds and it will look like(pre-microwave) it doesnt work but after you make one you will never go back. I plan to experiment with making “loaves” of this next week.

37

[quote]JDK wrote:
Hi, I tend to use protein bars for an afternoon snack. During the week I don’t have access to a fridge (in a hotel), but all the protein bars out there are high-carb, low-fat. Anyone know of a good high-fat, low-carb protein bar?

Or is the only alternative to whip up home-made ones? If so, has anyone tried this and got a good recipe?

Thanks
Jason[/quote]

Jason -

I dont use bars for that specific reason, so instead I just use shakes and nuts. Usually I always have a few scoops of a whey/casein blend like Low Carb Metabolic Drive and some nuts, with a few water bottles on me at all times. I just have the protein sitting in my shaker bottle and a water bottle or two with me, then when I am ready I just mix the two, no matter where I am. Get a small tupperware container, through in some nuts, you are good to go.

My morning snack:

Protein Shake + 35 Almonds: 23g of fat, 13g of carbs, 49g of protein, 7g of fiber, 2g of sugar.

Walnuts would also do the trick, or pretty much any nut you like for that matter.

I know it might be a pain to carry around compared to a protein bar, but its best if you can just plan all your meals for the day and take them everywhere with you. On a day where I know I am going to be at school all day, I pack food in a cooler and leave it in my trunk of my car, and just go out every few hours and eat something. Then, I have my protein and water bottles and nuts in my backpack at all times, so I am never without.

Remember, missing a meal is just as bad as a cheat meal.

As I once saw on a poster in junior high “Failing to plan is planning to fail!”

38

AirBoren
smithers584
ashylarryku

First off thanks a lot for the information so far!

Ok I have completed induction; I started the diet on the 17th of January and started bulking on the 8th of February.

In regards to the 30000cals that I set I used the formula set out in AS, this being eat 25x your desired bodyweight. So I set my desired bodyweight at about 165 pounds and did as it said in the book and set my caloric intake to about 22x desired bodyweight and went off that theory.

So going on the info so far I should trim this down to about 25000 weekly?

Quick info about me, I wasnâ??t always skinny lol. A few years back I weighed a nice 200 pounds; I lost all that weight, however due to my poor technique ended up losing most of the muscle I had and became a skinny bastard lol.
So yeah there we go…
Thanks for the help guys!

39

O ya…its desired bw*25 or a 15% increase in ur calories(for those with a drastically higher desired bw than their current bw) so you want to use whichever one is less. Which in your case looks like it would be the 15%…although I havent done the math. P.S. you started the exact same day as me, and i think smithers as well.

Brian

40

[quote]AirBoren wrote:
O ya…its desired bw*25 or a 15% increase in ur calories(for those with a drastically higher desired bw than their current bw) so you want to use whichever one is less. Which in your case looks like it would be the 15%…although I havent done the math. P.S. you started the exact same day as me, and i think smithers as well.

Brian[/quote]

Lol, nice piece of coincidence…

Ok, so going by what you are saying does that mean that I should be eating 15% above my caloric intake that would only be the 2800 level… Damn, I was enjoying eating the 4000 calories lol…

I am kind of confused, so it looks like I totally confused what was being said in the AS book…