T Nation

My EDT Critique

OK I have made the plunge and after watching Staleys new DVD decided to go for an all out EDT for a bit. Using it as the sole program instead of just for one body part.

I am a little over one I gues you would say training week into it and am loving it. I have repetead the first w/o yesterday and actually had to adjust the weight up as I under shot the firts go at it but that was expected, some changes.

Anyhow I was just wanting you all to chime in and tell me what you think. Do you see any obvious mishaps that are leading me to not hit a body part etc…

Here goes. I have foru w/o’s 2 upper (U1, U2), 2 lower (L1, L2)and I rotet them 1 on 1 off like this. 1U, off 1L, off, 2U, off, 2L, off, repeat. So the weeks very between having 4 training days and three off like last week and this week will have three on 4 off. but it is always on, off, etc…

ok
1U=
PR Zone 1 15 minutes
Standing Military press & Chins

PR Zone 2 15 minutes
Dips & Upright DB rows

PR zone 3 10 minutes
DB flys & BB curls

2U=
PR Zone 1 15 minutes
Decline Bench & Sup. Grip Low cable rows

PR Zone 2 15 minutes
Incline DB bench & bent over BB Rows

PR zone 3 10 minutes
DB Reverse flys & Cable push downs

1L=
PR Zone 1 15 minutes
Deads & Leg raise

PR Zone 2 15 minutes
Step up Right & Step up left

PR zone 3 10 minutes
Lying Leg curl & Cable Wood choppers

2L=
PR Zone 1 15 minutes
Squat & Cable stnding Crunch

PR Zone 2 15 minutes
Lunge Right & Lunge Left

PR zone 3 10 minutes
Leg Extension Unilateral & Cable side bends

Thats it. I have to say they are brutal but I am liking the change of pace.

Let me have it,
Phill

Phil,
Good luck with EDT, it looks like a good design. I have tried several of the CS programs and like the way it changes your focus from lift more weight to something like take shorter rests for a while.

I would however caution against using exercises that tax the same muscles in a PR zone:

(1) 1U PR2: both exercises hit the delts hard. Switch the curls from PR3 with the Upright rows from PR2.

(2) 2L PR1: both exercises hit the abs hard. Substitute something for the cable crunch.

You may be able to tolerate the overlap, but will probably be able to squeeze out a few more reps if PR exercises are antagonist or completely unrelated.

Looks like a good setup overall,Phill. On the UB day, for your horizontal back work, I see you are using supinated grip on your low pulley rows. That is fine, but make sure you change that up on the bent over BB rows in the next PR Zone. A pronated grip is always a good idea to keep around on your horizontal pulling motion to keep your scapular retractors in good balance with your anterior internal rotators (pec minor, major, and anterior delts). I really like the pronated grip for the rows in with the same grip and elbow angle as my benching. Works great for balance and helps on bench power.

Best,
DH

you go Phil-BOYYYYY!!!-Jules

Looking very sexy Phill… keep up the good work!

Thanks all. I am lovin it so far. Tomorrow brings my second DL leg day should be fun. LOL

Disc I didnt put it down but I am switching the grip for the Bo Rows. I never use the sup. grip that is why I threw it in. I am also using a much closer grip on the low cable rows as well and I use the same grip width as my BB bench on the Bo Rows.

Thansk for the info so far all.

Keep it coming and I’ll let you know how I fair.

Ltr,
Phill

One reminder for Phill and anyone else venturing into EDT:

There’s an old saying that any form of training intense enough to elicit a training response is also intense enough to burn you out. EDT is no exception. Therefore, at least initially, I’d recommend doing EDT in 3-4 week cycles, broken up with more traditional set/rep formats in between.

Alternatively, you can use more traditional formats for “core” lifts and then EDT for “auxilliary” lifts. Both methods work, but beware EDT’s ability to fry you to a crisp!

[quote]Phill wrote:
OK I have made the plunge and after watching Staleys new DVD decided to go for an all out EDT for a bit. Using it as the sole program instead of just for one body part.

I am a little over one I gues you would say training week into it and am loving it. I have repetead the first w/o yesterday and actually had to adjust the weight up as I under shot the firts go at it but that was expected, some changes.

Anyhow I was just wanting you all to chime in and tell me what you think. Do you see any obvious mishaps that are leading me to not hit a body part etc…

Here goes. I have foru w/o’s 2 upper (U1, U2), 2 lower (L1, L2)and I rotet them 1 on 1 off like this. 1U, off 1L, off, 2U, off, 2L, off, repeat. So the weeks very between having 4 training days and three off like last week and this week will have three on 4 off. but it is always on, off, etc…

ok
1U=
PR Zone 1 15 minutes
Standing Military press & Chins

PR Zone 2 15 minutes
Dips & Upright DB rows

PR zone 3 10 minutes
DB flys & BB curls

2U=
PR Zone 1 15 minutes
Decline Bench & Sup. Grip Low cable rows

PR Zone 2 15 minutes
Incline DB bench & bent over BB Rows

PR zone 3 10 minutes
DB Reverse flys & Cable push downs

1L=
PR Zone 1 15 minutes
Deads & Leg raise

PR Zone 2 15 minutes
Step up Right & Step up left

PR zone 3 10 minutes
Lying Leg curl & Cable Wood choppers

2L=
PR Zone 1 15 minutes
Squat & Cable stnding Crunch

PR Zone 2 15 minutes
Lunge Right & Lunge Left

PR zone 3 10 minutes
Leg Extension Unilateral & Cable side bends

Thats it. I have to say they are brutal but I am liking the change of pace.

Let me have it,
Phill[/quote]

I got the EDT book its cool and all but didn’t work for me because I have to run and I don’t get to eat enough calories. Once I do get enough money to buy all the food I need EDT will be the first thing I’m doing because I’ve come to find out that without the right amount of fuel going in, you won’t get very far.

However, I have come up with a very nice split and am learning how my body works, with that knoweldge there, I can use some of thst information from the EDT book to help me with that such as doing the antagonist approach to keep my time down.

Thanks for the heads up Charles.

I will keep hat in mind and every third or fourth week switch it up for a little break week.

We’ll see how i goes.

Thanks again,
Phill

Just to drag this out a bit and becasue I am pretty damned pleased with the progress I made on my first day of repeating and trying to beat my previous PR.

Also want some opinion on the rep ranges and moving up.

I accheived getting 9 more reps in DL than last week. Pulled 345 60 times in 15 minutes. I wish I had payed a little more attention to the time and numbers and got the 20% progress of 10n reps damn it. This time thing takes a little getting used to.

My grip was killing me toward the end with all the sweat and chalk I was making clay. LOL That and I am sure my abs will feel it from the 60 leg raises.

I think I may go ahead and up the weight next go another 20 or so and start over. 60 seems to be a good spot to add weight IMO, atleast on something like the big compounds. Thoughts???

Oh also had movement in the step uops and leg curls/wood choppers as well.

Ill be hurting come tomorrow. LOL.

Time to EAT BIG.

Ltr,
Phill

If you go up in weight, your chalk may turn into some quick dry cement :), but enjoy the increase.

Typically, I don’t use squats or deads in traditional EDT formatting since the antagonist for these patterns is trunk/hip flexion, read: ab work. Therefore, you’ll be squatting or pulling with tired abs, and the potential problem is that your abs may not be strong enough to pressurize yourself for low back protection. But if it’s going OK, proceed with caution, and don’t look for big jumps, and you should be OK.

[quote]Phill wrote:
Just to drag this out a bit and becasue I am pretty damned pleased with the progress I made on my first day of repeating and trying to beat my previous PR.

Also want some opinion on the rep ranges and moving up.

I accheived getting 9 more reps in DL than last week. Pulled 345 60 times in 15 minutes. I wish I had payed a little more attention to the time and numbers and got the 20% progress of 10n reps damn it. This time thing takes a little getting used to.

My grip was killing me toward the end with all the sweat and chalk I was making clay. LOL That and I am sure my abs will feel it from the 60 leg raises.

I think I may go ahead and up the weight next go another 20 or so and start over. 60 seems to be a good spot to add weight IMO, atleast on something like the big compounds. Thoughts???

Oh also had movement in the step uops and leg curls/wood choppers as well.

Ill be hurting come tomorrow. LOL.

Time to EAT BIG.

Ltr,
Phill[/quote]

Thanks I think I am handling it. Sure I’m sore and all but seem to be recovering well. I think I may have udner shot it a bit as well. I’ll bump it and give it another go.

Thanks

With regards to EDT, at what density should you increase the weight of the lift?

Just wanted to stop in here again and say I am lovin to hate this EDT.

Also that I am using EDT principles on my mom as well in her recovery and she is doing awesome!!!

Charles you really nailed something here that can be adapted to fit every person, and every unique situation. It for sure has a place in my usual rotataion of w/o’s Thanks!!

Oh, and come October at the bootcamp I am supposed to (moms making me) chase you down and, well I wont say her words you can most likely guess. It’ll be tough to catch you however if I am as sore from the lower body w/o’s then as I am now. LOL

OK so progression is going AWESOME. I have decided that the 60 rep mark is a good one for me to move up in my 15 minute PR zones. That is a LOT of reps IMO when moving a substantial load. I will move up in weight to a new weight that will allow high 40’s to 50’s reps then work towrd the goal of nailing 60 again. On my 10 minute PR’s I am upping at 40 reps.

I was able to just get 60 on my decline bench and rows day as well as the incline DB presses and BO rows, so they will be moving up. Then yesterday I smashed my squats, though it almost killed me. I progressed 5 reps from 57 to 62 290. I started a little lower than the suggested 80% due to this being the first run at full blown EDT, and they are squats damn it. LOL. Still damn near 3 bills of weight, 62 times in 15 minutes was a killer. That and supersetted with weighted crunches. Follow that with lunges for fifteen minutes and end with ten minutes on side bends and leg extensions and wew!!. LOL You werent kidding no need for any cardio.

Anyway seems all is going good, Having the three full days to recover between repeating the same body section (yupper/lower) seems just right for me. The only thing that seemed to still be stressed longer than that was/is my forearms. After that killer DL day they are still a bit sore, but they are used in damn near evryother day as well so that answeres that.

Since I have chosen to use mainly BIG compound movements such as Squats and DL’s, I am going to take Charles advice and take a break after three training weeks (three repeats of each day). So I will do each one more time starting tomorrow. I will then just drop the volume for a week. Most likely stick to the same movements or similar and do a more standard rep set scheme. Probably high low , high set, low rep. 10x3 or maybe even some heavy singles. Just a major decrease in volume while keeping the intensity HIGH.

Thanks again Charles for the AWESOME program and that New DVD is sweet. Glad I decided to get it, and to make the push finally to try EDT fullblown. Only wish I hadnt waited so long. I highly suggest the DVD and EDT to anyone. It is a nice change of pace.

Ltr,
Phill

[quote]CharlesStaley wrote:
Typically, I don’t use squats or deads in traditional EDT formatting since the antagonist for these patterns is trunk/hip flexion, read: ab work. Therefore, you’ll be squatting or pulling with tired abs, and the potential problem is that your abs may not be strong enough to pressurize yourself for low back protection. But if it’s going OK, proceed with caution, and don’t look for big jumps, and you should be OK.

Phill wrote:
Just to drag this out a bit and becasue I am pretty damned pleased with the progress I made on my first day of repeating and trying to beat my previous PR.

Also want some opinion on the rep ranges and moving up.

I accheived getting 9 more reps in DL than last week. Pulled 345 60 times in 15 minutes. I wish I had payed a little more attention to the time and numbers and got the 20% progress of 10n reps damn it. This time thing takes a little getting used to.

My grip was killing me toward the end with all the sweat and chalk I was making clay. LOL That and I am sure my abs will feel it from the 60 leg raises.

I think I may go ahead and up the weight next go another 20 or so and start over. 60 seems to be a good spot to add weight IMO, atleast on something like the big compounds. Thoughts???

Oh also had movement in the step uops and leg curls/wood choppers as well.

Ill be hurting come tomorrow. LOL.

Time to EAT BIG.

Ltr,
Phill[/quote]

Then the question is could you on lower day do DL say 8x3 then do a pR zone of Hack Sq and Leg curls or Natural GlHam raises

You increase the we ight once you are able to hit your PR zones with a 20% increase I think it is. My favorite thing about EDT is you can get a workout done and overwith within a short period of time.

[quote]CharlesStaley wrote:
One reminder for Phill and anyone else venturing into EDT:

There’s an old saying that any form of training intense enough to elicit a training response is also intense enough to burn you out. EDT is no exception. Therefore, at least initially, I’d recommend doing EDT in 3-4 week cycles, broken up with more traditional set/rep formats in between.

Alternatively, you can use more traditional formats for “core” lifts and then EDT for “auxilliary” lifts. Both methods work, but beware EDT’s ability to fry you to a crisp!
[/quote]

You are RIGHT on with this Charles. I am halfway through my foru w/o’s of my third training week. I am still progressing but I am starting to feel the effects.

IU could most likely keep the progress up another week or two if I really went after it. But I think I may nbe risking injury and overtraining more than any benefit.

I am fellin a bit beat up. Sleep is just starting to get effected as well. A little restless though that could be due to reasons external to training. I suppose all the big compound movements and EDT will do that.

So after finishing my last two training sessions I will do a down week only three days training.Probably mix it up and have some fun do some things I havent in a while, etc… Lots of active recovery etc… Then back at the EDT for another three training weeks.

Oh and Today was great added another 22 lbs to the DL weight (367) and still pulled out 50 in 15 minutes. Then upped the weight on the step ups, etc… Gonna be a sore sucker I suppose.

Thats bout it,
Phill

Vorn -

Charles says that once you beat your best PR by 20%, you up the weight. The reason, I think, that you dont have a specific number is that different people in different gyms will have different PRs. Like today, for instance, I was doing bent over rows coupled with Skulls. I could set the two lifts right next to each other and was able to rip out over 50 reps. Then I did seated DB Mil coupled with leg exts (would normally be doing hack squats, but I twisted my ankle last week). These two stations are much further apart in the gym, so I was only able to get in the high 30s. you will also notice that your stamina will drop off significantly from set to set, so the amount of reps you can hit in your first superset will be different than the number of reps in your third superset. Also, if you increase your weight in both exercises of an early superset, it will affect your following supersets. So, you really have to base your density on your personal experiences. But, you do it for a couple weeks and you will know when to bump up.

Side note:
I have been doing the singles PR zone first (introduced in the EDT Fat Loss article), and have been LOVING IT. I alternate the Singles lift, based on which I feel I have neglected too long, between snatches, squats, deads, and bench. It is really fun, and suggested by me.

With the recent EDT stuff popping up figured I would bump my thread. I am getting ready to finish training week 2 of the new approach.

I changed it up a bit even though the first approach above was AWESOME!! Coach Staley was right and I felt like I had been hit by a truck after three weeks of the Big Compounds on EDT. Thoughb after a down week of just doing what ever in the gym. What ever I felt and a major drop in volume I was refreshed and ready to go.

Anyway the new change is that instead of the First PR zone each day with Squat, DL, Bench, or Overhead press and the paired antagonist. Instead I am doing the same movements but doing 10x3 for these then doing EDT for the others movements listed. Still leaving the gym wiped the hell out but seemingly staying fresher.

Also Not only have the EDT zonesw kept increasing week to week, But the 10x3 of previous weeks that was a hell of a challange are getting nailed the next week for 10x4 with less of a struggle.

I’ll let you all know how it turns out.
I would sugest either approach so far for a NIce brutal change.