I don’t believe this is Bill Roberts’ latest and greatest method, though it’s the one I use. If you search, I think you’ll find his new method is to simply place the pellets in a vial with oil and use a sonicator or magnetic stirrer to break up the pellets. No solvent is used in the process, but this would only be good for a 50mg/ml concentration. The difference in ease between the two methods is negligible in my opinion. Though, I do see the benefit in not using solvents.
The settling process doesn’t take very long. You can filter the next day if you are in a hurry. I let the solution sit for 2-3 weeks before filtering.
I would store in a dark and cool place, but I don’t see refrigeration as necessary.
Due to the nature of Trenbolone, I would not store the preparation for too long. You could refer to the expiration date on the package for a good indication of the time frame it should be used within.
I’ll leave the last one for someone else, as I have no clue.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
The thread title was accurate at the time, but this is not my current formula.
I have stopped using BA because it results in some non-TA component of the pellets to mix with the oil, tending to clog the filters.
If no BA is used, filtration is far easier.
On Component-TH: I have never used it. I would expect it to work but don’t know if it may contain a different binder or other such thing that might affect the processing.
If you want to search the forum to find what is more current, the best way is to go to Google and set up the search with, among the search restrictions, site:http://tnation.tmuscle.com
Bill I realize that the recipe has changed since the first thread and I have spent almost 8 hours today reading various articles on the Finiplex conversion. This is why I am asking if the method I wrote above is current with your thinking. I did not add any BA on that conversion just BB.
I hope the Component-H is the same. I knew I should have checked with you first!
I have a bad practice of hitting the Submit button before doing any review, and often don’t see omissions or unintended-but-said things until after it gets to the board. Which can be too late, as the edit may not be seen for a while.
I meant to write BA or BB.
Benzyl benzoate also has this property.
If the extra filtration trouble doesn’t bother you, then there’s nothing wrong with using the BB, and it does allow a higher concentration, for what that is worth (personally, doesn’t matter to me much but some prefer 75 mg/mL to 50 mg/mL.)
I think it unlikely that the Component-TH would differ in any important way. I was just wanting to make clear that I had no factual information as to whether it would present any problems of its own or not. Not that I suspect that it likely does.
The really important thing is to always use a heifer formulation for TA, not a steer formulation. Those have added estrogen.
Thanks for the update Bill. I think it would be safer for me to use a heifer also, sometimes those steers dont appreciate a little lovin! Just a funny Bill remember when you caught me saying I drink lots of MILF?
Anyway now I am clear NO BA or BB just enough oil for the concentration and lots of stirring, crushing or sonicating. I know WHB gave me a amount of time for settling, but he uses a solvent.
What time frame will it take if no solvent is used for settling?
ALL DAM DAY I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR Benzyl Benzoate AND THE ONLY PLACE THAT I CAN FIND IS OUT OF STOCK…
If no solvent is used, some of the material can be poured into a syringe and filtered the same day. By the next day most of it is ready to be filtered if desired.
Myself, I have gotten tired of filtering – even though it is so much easier now – and instead of doing it in batches, instead follow a method of pouring some clear material into another smaller vial (for example a 30 mL vial), storing the main bottle in a dark closet, and then as needed pouring from that other vial into a syringe and filtering as the means of filling each day’s injection. Ultimately it’s not any less work, but it avoids the tedium of doing a large amount at one time. Strictly personal preference: it’s not inherently better.
I have a few vials that I already brewed from powder. Unfortunately, I made it before I read what you had to say in regards to Trenbolone being heat-sensitive and followed instructions I read on another site which included baking for 45 minutes at 250f. Is it pretty much toast?
Heat is never necessary. It only results in faster dissolution. Unfortunately the word “baking” has become firmly associated in the minds of many with producing injectables at home, and they are determined to bake.
When wishing the advantage of faster dissolution, which is a significant issue with Fina pellets as the total surface area (as the pellets are large) is small relative to the mass, no great amount of temperature is necessary. For example 55 C (about 131 F) does a very nice job. Even 45 C gives good speed.
When doing as many do and taking “baking” literally and actually using the oven, there really is no telling what temperature is achieved in the oil other than that it will not be higher than the air temperature of the oven, which may not be the same as indicated on the dial.
In other words your oil may well not have reached 250 F.
I would expect that if it had your product would appear quite brown.
If your product experienced no oxidation it would be a nice canary yellow with no brownishness to it.
Some have used severely browned Fina preparations and been happy with them.
Yes, brown. I use a 2/20 BA/BB ratio and would like it to be 100mg/ml. To avoid heat, could I just mix the powder in with the solvents and wait for it to dissolve? Do you think that 10 grams of powder would eventually dissolve in 22ml total of BA/BB (2ml/20ml)?
Anything that will permanently remain in solution at room temperature will also dissolve at room temperature. (This is of relevance to complete formulations with oil, not so much to BA/BB mixtures which aren’t intended to be kept indefinitely at room temperature.)
Actually my comments on taking considerable time to dissolve at room temperature are in reference to a complete solution including oil. If dissolving into BA/BB first (this isn’t IMO so suited for pellets, as binder will dissolve as well) then dissolution is much easier.
As for dissolving a powder into BB/BA, why people are impatient on this and believe they need to bake, I can’t imagine. It is easy to do at room temperature with occasional swirling, shaking, or inverting.
A jewelry sonicator is an extremely convenient means of speeding dissolution of pellets, but really isn’t needed for powder though it would speed it yet further.
Magnetic stirring is also excellent but requires things that are probably harder to find than a cheap little jewelry sonicator.
If going the sonicator route for pellets and an oily solution, you don’t want one that automatically shuts off after 5 min or whatever. For powder into BA/BB 5 minutes would be plenty.
I haven’t tried the particular thing you ask (10 g of TA into a mix of 2 mL BA, 20 mL BB).
It would dissolve into that plus the oil that would be used.
It might very well do it without the oil but I can’t say without trying.
I guess I will try it and find out. I don’t have a sonicator, so I will have to make do with just mixing the powder in with the solvents and letting it sit in a jar. We’ll see how it goes! Are you suggesting that if it doesn’t dissolve into the BA/BB mix to add in the oil and try that?
Bill, I am also interested in what you said about cleaning the whatman out with alcohol. I can’t buy 190 proof Everclear where I am (only 151), but I remember reading about people using Heet in their Fina conversions, which can be purchased from an automotive store. Would you consider this safe? I think Heet is methanol, but with “additives”. If not Heet, do you have any other recommendations?
Don’t just let it sit, as dissolution requires having non-saturated solution immediately next to the particles.
If there is no mixing, then the region near the particles can become saturated while most of the solution is not. And it can take excessive time to rely simply on diffusion.
Better to invert or shake or swirl every now and then.
If you put hot tap water into a suitable container and let your jar sit in that and warm up, it might take quite little time with occasional swirling.
At room temperature it would be reasonable to allow a couple of days before giving up.
Since I don’t know what is in Heet, I’d use the 151 proof. Or I’d find out what is in it besides methanol. The methanol is not a problem, as it can be pushed out of the filter and in very small quantity and very low concentration is not toxic.
By the way with my method that does NOT use benzyl alcohol or benzyl benzoate, the filter really doesn’t clog.
Bill - it worked perfectly. I measured out the 22ml of BA/BB into a jar and then dumped all 10g of TA powder in and shook it up. Then I sat it in the closet and walked away. Came back about 20 minutes later to shake it again but it had already dissolved completely! Since I’m in no hurry I’ll let it sit for another day or two before adding the oil and filtering but I doubt it’s necessary. Pretty amazing. It actually seems like it dissolved easier without heat than with. From now on, I’ll try to do all my homebrewing without the use of heat. It’s so much easier and eliminates the risk of heat damage. A sonicator might be a good investment for me for any compounds that might be a little more stubborn to dissolve.
The color is a nice orange. Probably much darker than the final product will be considering right now it is ~450mg/ml with just the BA/BB. Once I add in the ~70ml of oil I imagine it will lighten up quite a bit. Even still, as it stands right now the color is much lighter than the final product from my last batch with heat which is pretty much brown.
If to the eye it’s dissolved completely that rapidly, then there’s no need to wait further.
The sonicator would help greatly with pellets and a complete-with-oil formulation, and substantially with powder and the oil being present, but would be a luxury otherwise.
As you’ve figured, the coloration will be much more intense due to the high concentration. If your powder wasn’t brownish, you should have a nice canary yellow final product.
As you’ve seen for yourself now, the word “baking” has become attached to this process in a really unfortunate way. It has seized the minds of many.
Yes, very unfortunate. It makes me wonder how many guys out there are damaging or even destroying their TA in the oven. Real shame given the price of this compound. Some instructions I read online even suggested baking in the oven multiple times. I think you are the only person who I have seen challenge the generally accepted idea that baking won’t harm Trenbolone.
I’m curious how much more potent this batch will be compared to my previous brown batch. I’m guessing a LOT.
This is probably a “dead thread” but I am curious if anyone has recently attempted a “Finasol” experiment.
I saw a andro-sol era article on T-mag about Finasol, and was curious if anyone still tried this approach and the mechanics of the same, given that the spray-on products have gone off the market.
I am happy to jab myself in the quad with T-Cyp from CostCo in a nice manufacturing package, but injecting things I make or (worse) some random guy makes, goes beyond my risk threshold.
I walk into Costco with my legitimate, and medically-justified, prescription. I am older, have a high-stress job, bad schedule, and my T count and sex drive is in the shitter. I hunted out and found a doctor that actually understands T replacement and need. Not complicated.
On topic, read other posts read the DMSO issues and just don’t think that’s a great idea.
The use of high concentration isopropyl seems a lot better, as I don’t dig garlic breath.
I’m not that worried about wasting product, just avoiding dying from cooking up mystery crap.
I have a few questions on Bill Roberts finaplix conversion. I read that you do not need to use BA & Bb just use oil. I was not able to find his recipe when I started my home brew. So I did the recipe of 36ml oil 4g finaplix and used a sonicator to dissolve the crushed pellets.
Now I have found Bill Roberts recipe and it says that it is only good for 50mg/ml if I did mine right it would be 100mg/ml. so did I mess this up? Do I need to add some BA&BB? Can I just double the oil and use the sonicator? My vial right now has a has three layers in it a slightly cloudy oil on top and thick cloudy layer and then the left over parts of pellets.
If you swirl it the lightly cloudy layer and cloudy layer combine and the sediment stay on the bottom.
As you suggest, you can simply double the oil and repeat the sonication, then allow to settle.
By the way, if in a rush to use the TA, it’s not necessary to process the entire batch at one time. Even the next day, there’s enough settling so that some can be poured off for immediate filtering and use, while it’s best to allow the remainder more time to settle.
Definitely appreciate all of your insight on these topics. There’s so much poor information on the web and you are a man that knows what your talking about. My question for you is what seems to be a basic math computation…that I can’t figure out. I added 2000mg of syno with 20ml of oil for 100mg/ml. I now desire to add 900mg of fina 60mg/ml to the same mixture. Is this advisable? How much more oil would I add? If this is not advisable I can just wait for my shipment of vials and filters, which was shipped today. Due to finances I was not properly situated with my entire cycle. I dropped the ball and hopefully I can get this done in time to not miss a beat.
Just a funny Bill remember when you caught me saying I drink lots of MILF?