T Nation

My Current Fina Formula

#21

Rainjack, or anyone else, how has the synovex held up as far as quality of suspension? What guage needle can you get it through? I ordered some test base powder before and ended up pitching it because I could never get it to hold well in suspension. It always seemed to cake up and clog the needle.

I’ve gotten winstrol suspension to work a couple times, but test suspension never seemed to work for me. If you could post or PM a recipe that works I’d appreciate it.

Does it depend on the quality of the powder? I’d imagine the powder I got from my supplier was high quality, as I’d never had a problem with anything else. I can’t imagine the test base powder from synovex would be super high grade with the crude isolation technique. I haven’t messed around with water-based stuff much, so any info would be awesome.

#22

I have never made a suspension. If I were going to use synovex-h now - I would have to make it a suspension since kits are illegal.

I wish I could be of help, but I just haven’t researched it enough to know how it is done.

#23

In the Fina formula it mentions Wesson oil. Is Wesson sterile enough to inject or should a sterile oil be used?

#24

The oil will be filtered, along with everything else, which eliminates almost all bacteria. The benzyl alcohol takes care of the rest. If you really care past that point you could even heat-sterilize it, though that’s largely unnecessary with a .22um filter.

#25

Schwarzenegger, thanks for explaining.

#26

The pellets and benzyl benzoate solution was sterilized by heat and also quite possibly by the benzyl benzoate (not that it is much of a bactericidal but at 100% I’d expect it is.) I have always considered Wesson to be sterile. I’ve never had or heard of a problem with it in more than 10 years of using that product. And as Schwarzenegger points out, there’s the submicron filter for the final guarantee as well.

If one just isn’t comfortable psychologically not having the benzyl alcohol (it really isn’t needed) then it would be OK to filter it and then add whatever small percentage of benzyl alcohol. Doing it in that order will avoid the fine-point problem of the BA having some tendency to dissolve methylcellulose and used after fitering, won’t increase the amount of that in the final product whereas beforehand I do think it solubilizes a little of it.

#27

Hm… steroids without benzyl alcohol. There’s definitely a psychological comfort factor having that in there. I can’t imagine it would be a good idea to take it out, especially if you plan on letting it sit around for a while and use large vials (20+ml). Any info I could read up on regarding this? I wouldn’t mind cutting it out, but considering pharmaceutical companies do it, there’s probably a reason. I just use it at 1% anyway.

#28

I don’t have any info on it. I’ve used it very many times without, as well as many times with. If having any confidence issues lacking it then certainly adding in 1% as a last step would be a completely reasonable thing to do.

Even without the benzyl alcohol it’s not a good environment for bacteria. There’s no carbohydrates or protein for them as nutrients nor is there any water. Of course if bacteria are put in there from some bad handling those lacks probably won’t kill them, but then again 1% benzyl alcohol is really not bactericidal either but bacteriostatic. So actually I think there is little difference but the psychological. However that’s not a small thing: fearing that an injection might cause infection takes up a lot of mental energy whereas confidence is always a good thing.

#29

Dumb question - do you mean the number of grams of TA contained in the pellets, or the actual weight of pellets (binders and all)

To formulate 1 cart(2g) at 75mg/ml I would use 2000mg TA/26.67ml fluid?

#30

Not a dumb question in the slightest, but a matter of accurately spotting where I should have written more precisely.

I should have written, to achieve 60 mg/mL, the planned total volume is, in mL, 16.67 times the nominal number of grams of trenbolone acetate used.

Not the number of grams of pellets, as that need not be weighed and would be a slightly different and greater value.

For 75 mg/mL, the dilution would be to a total volume of 13.33 times the nominal number of grams of TA. So in your example of a single cartridge nominally containing 2 g of TA, enough oil would be added to dilute the solution to a total volume of 26.67 mL.

If for whatever reason this method of diluting to a specific end volume weren’t desired, but it instead was desired to add a specific quantity of oil, as an estimation this would be 26.67 (total) - 2.67 (volume of BB) - 2.0 (estimated volume in solution of the TA) or 22.0 mL of oil.

I really don’t know accurately that 2 g of TA in oil solution takes up 2.0 mL of volume, but it cannot be too drastically far off.

But the most accurate way, lacking exact information on how much volume is taken up by the TA in solution, would be diluting to planned total volume, e.g. by having determined beforehand that a given mark drawn on the outside of the vial represents the planned total volume.

#31

I’ve found it an improvement to the method to NOT use heat to help dissolve the pellets.

Now, without using benzyl alcohol and without using heat, it is somewhat of a pain to get the pellets to dissolve in the oil. It can be done however.

A fresh-out-of-the-wrapper large syringe such as a 23 gauge can be used, with the plastic protector of the needle still in place, as a crushing tool, reaching down into the vial through the oil to crush the pellets. Absolute complete crushing won’t take place in any reasonable time, but a fairly fine powder can be achieved in reasonable time. Other implements if sterilized would be fine also: this is just an example implement that happens to be a suitable size.

A sonicator, e.g. jewelry cleaning sonicator, will help a great deal. Actually I have two sonicators, one a heavy-duty one that can be set for half an hour at a time, and the other a light-duty deal that runs only 5 minutes at a time. In the past, the heavy-duty one was quite suitable for this sort of task, requiring only a few hours of cycling. For some reason however I cannot now find it, and so most recently I had to use the light-duty one. Very many total hours of sonication was needed, along with lots of shaking and several days time. But eventually there was only filler remaining, the formula being at a planned 60 mg/mL.

50 mg/mL would have been easier.

Why do this?

Because it turns out that the heating phase causes much more of the brownish material that gloms filters to go into solution, and remains in solution even after cooling.

By avoiding heat, filtration into final usage vials (in contrast from the original large dissolution vial) is many times easier. If the preparation is made a few weeks in advance, all the better for filtration, but this stuff filters better even 1 day after having been dissolved than heated stuff does a month after having been dissolved.

Benzyl alcohol, 1 or 2%, can be added to each usage vial after filtration.

#32

Well that explains a lot!

I was looking for that “bright canary yellow” you described and was just not seeing it -not as yet anyway.

It’s been just short of a week and while I’m still waiting for the sediment to completely settle… I can see that some of it will more than likely not settle at all.

It is apparent that this particluar solution will have to be painstakingly filtered (emphasis on Pain) to produce a final product worthy of use.

Thanks for the updated information

#33

When the heated method is used, nothing like the “bright canary yellow” color occurs until after filtering; without heat, it comes pretty close to that color simply from settling but again the filtering is needed for it to be brilliant and perfectly clear.

#34

Bill,

So a mortar and pedestal will work for this method, if I sterilize them and use gloves? Then add the powder to the BB and oil and shake.

Also, what is the smallest needle you have gotten this formula to pass through with the wesson oil?

Thanks

#35

Well, yes one could use a mortar and pestle, but the more one has an open top exposed to air, the more likely (or certain) that dust or other undesirables is going to get in there when, as will be the case, lacking a clean-room environment. Doing the grinding-up of the pellets actually inside of, for example, a 100 mL vial using a sterilized implement will really cut down on such exposure compared to a mortar and pestle.

It is true that the preparation will be filtered later but somehow it disgusts me to think of dirt getting in there even if filtered afterwards.

I use a 29 gauge 1 mL insulin pin. Some have used yet-smaller. I remember back when first advocating this people, even including Dan Duchaine, insisted it was impossible via reasoning on the force required to push through a 25 gauge with a 3 mL syring, but they weren’t taking into account hydraulics.

The smaller area of the 1 mL plunger proportionately reduces the force required and it’s quite easy actually to inject even too fast (it’s best I think to allow 30-60 seconds for injection so as to allow the oil to seep between muscle fibers instead of having to force open a cavity.)

#36

I read the original post but not the replies. I would just like to add that before syringe filtering the solution, most people filter it first through a coffee filter.

Another thing I noticed is that it is recommended to suck backwards through the syringe filter and reuse them but I’ve seen a mail from whatman stating that this can damage the membranes and make the filter useless.

I also use Benzyl alcohol and Benzyl benzoate.

#37

This thread has been idle for some time now, I thought I could still ask a question though. Does anyone know info regarding finaplix needing refrigeration, some vet suppliers mail finaplix in a cooler and state that it needs to at a constant temp. How does this effect the conversion?

#38

I would like to ask a couple of questions to confirm the current method of making TA from Component-TH. I have read at least 5 different methods that have been created over the years, so maybe once a method is shored up maybe we could sticky it.

From what I understand??? Component-TH has 4000mg of TA in a kit. The current method 75 mg/mL solution would be to add 44ml of wesson soybean oil to a beaker along with 5.34ml of BB. Add the 4000mg of Component-TH and crush with a sterile(sutible type)instrument (under/submerged) in the oil. Stir and completly disolve the pellets in oil/bb mixture. Let mixture settle.(any ideas on how long this will take to settle?) After settling draw(top of mixture minus granuals/sand) into a large(10cc) syringe. Vent vial size of choice and add a needle w/ .22ui filter. Place large syringe on filter and inject solution into the sterial vial. If needed use a cauking gun with washers to save your thumbs while injecting into vial.

OOOK!!! Questions----->

Is this the correct current method?
Any ideas on how long this will take to settle?)
Will this completed solution need to be kept cool?
What is the shelf life on this?
Is there any local or easy method to obtain BB?

#39

The thread title was accurate at the time, but this is not my current formula.

I have stopped using BA because it results in some non-TA component of the pellets to mix with the oil, tending to clog the filters.

If no BA is used, filtration is far easier.

On Component-TH: I have never used it. I would expect it to work but don’t know if it may contain a different binder or other such thing that might affect the processing.

If you want to search the forum to find what is more current, the best way is to go to Google and set up the search with, among the search restrictions, site:http://tnation.tmuscle.com

So for example:

site:http://tnation.tmuscle.com “Bill Roberts” finaplix

#40

On the refrigeration question: Where the trenbolone is protected from oxidation, as it pretty much is in a vial, there is no need for refrigeration.