T Nation

My Clean Bulking Plan

well i think im finally ready mentally…to put on abit of size…imnot tring to be a fat ass,but some definition would benice…

im going to be following Waterbury’s high frequency training
and my diet will be as follows…

Meal 1: Pro/Carb

8 Egg Whites, 4 oz turkey breast, 1 cup oatmeal, 1/2 grapefruit, 2C broccolli

50g protein / 54g carbs / 5g fat

Meal 2: Pro/Fat

Lean meat, 24 almonds, green veggies

55g protein / 2g carbs / 20g fat

Meal 3: Pro/Carb

Chicken Breast, 1 1/4th cup oats(100 g) veggies

55g protein / 64g carbs / 3g Fat

Meal 4: Pro/Fat

2 Cans of Tuna, natty pb, Veggies

60g protein / 2g carbs / 13g Fat

Meal 5: 8 oz turke breast, veggies, almonds
50g protien/5g carbs/15g fat

pre workout:apple, caffiene,start sipping xedn bcaas

Workout

Meal 6: PWO Nutrition

2 Scoops Whey Protein / 40g of Dextrose,40 grams carbs from oats

40g protein / 80g carbs / 3g fat

Meal 7: PPWO

Boneless Skinless Chicken Breast, ? cup Brown Rice (Measured Uncooked)

50g protein / 70g carbs / 3g fat

Meal 8: Before Bed

3 Scoops of Whey Protein, 1.5 Tbsp. Flax Seed Oil

60g protein / 3g carbs / 21g Fat

his is around 3500 cals…400 grams protien, 250 carbs 85 grams of fat…

ill be taking 6 gramsfish oil daily spread out in meals
and ALA with all carb meals

give me some advice guy!!

It’s going to be a long, slow journey for you.

[quote]BlakedaMan wrote:
It’s going to be a long, slow journey for you.[/quote]

care to elaboarte for me…

understand im a former fatty

im now at 215 lbs
12.1 percent bodyfat
24 years old
6 foot 1

You need more Carbs I think.

Just do a straight up bulk mate, just stay away from the pasteries and fast food. Fat gain won’t be all that bad.

You need more carbs I’m sure.

And you do not need to eat 8 dietary servings of meat a day. Its unhealthy and uncalled for. 400g of protein is too much, its 50% of your intake! 30-35% is more than adequate for gaining mass. Each meal doesn’t have to have 50g of protein.
For the PPWO, you could make it beans and rice. For meal 2 you can mix yogurt and peanut butter together, it tastes like melted pb ice cream. Breakfast can just be whole eggs and no turkey. And 1 can of tuna should be enough. Mix it with mayo, mustard, eggs, onions, celery, nuts, apples, whatever. The nuts and eggs would add enough extra cals and protein. And cut down the before bed to a scoop of whey and some milk or something. You just have way too much protein.

And add some more fat. Your amount of calories coming from fat should be around 30% and like I said earlier, protein should be around 30-35%, leaving the rest to come from carbs.

And I’m just curious why you’re alternating PC and PF meals? Personal preference or some sort of method?

i cut doing the same thing …keeping carbs around traingin sessions…witha retty high protien intake…im fine with a slow bulk actually…and im not really into dairy…

ive done alot of reading about protien and “taking in too much” ive found that alot of the ideas are being challenged…i dont know …im not afraid of carbs but i think the amount im taking in is alot…when i cut im getting around 160 on training days…

ive been really energetic in the gym the past 3 days…all advice is appreciated

[quote]texass wrote:
And you do not need to eat 8 dietary servings of meat a day. Its unhealthy and uncalled for. 400g of protein is too much, its 50% of your intake![/quote]

Unhealthy? According to whom? I agree carbs and fats should be higher, but the protein is fine if he likes a high-protein approach. It may keep him leaner in the process (TEF).

[quote]OneEye wrote:
Unhealthy? According to whom? I agree carbs and fats should be higher, but the protein is fine if he likes a high-protein approach. It may keep him leaner in the process (TEF).[/quote]

I didn’t say the high protein was unhealthy, I said 8 servings of MEAT a day is. Who considers that healthy?

But I will say it now, 50% of your intake when you’re barely above your maintanence is unhealthy. Its not because the protein is high, rather that everything else is low. 3500 calories for a 200lb man is not high (I’m not a male or in the 200s so I’m not that familiar with the caloric needs, but that even sounds like maintanence).

He most likely is barely getting enough fats and carbs to support the heavy demands training puts on his body. To make a point, I’m almost half his weight and I get more fat and carbs then he does, on just 500 less calories too. 400g of protein is fine, if he raises his intake up another 1000 calories. But 50% of such a low intake is not. Not enough fat, not enough carbs, not good for growth.

Define a “healthy” amount of meat. That’s very subjective and sounds to me a bit like traditional thinking. If one is theoretically supposed to get 1 to 2g of protein per pound of bodyweight and if getting the majority of protein intake from complete whole food sources is ideal (and it is), then it’s likely that most of that would, and should, come from lean meats as well as eggs and dairy.

Also, when determining those serving sizes, they probably weren’t considering someone who regularly exercises and is trying to put on weight (let alone someone who’s 215lbs).

Are ya’ll looking for an argument or do you genuinely not believe eating half your intake in meat is not good for your body?

I agree that if he wants to add mass he should take a more balanced approach,I just disagree that eating that amount of meat would be unhealthy.

[quote]texass wrote:
Are ya’ll looking for an argument or do you genuinely not believe eating half your intake in meat is not good for your body?
[/quote]

I’m not “looking for an argument.” You run your mouth a lot for someone so new to this board.

You’re a former vegetarian. You think eating meat makes people smell bad. You have a very biased opinion.

Please tell me a better way to take in 400g of protein mostly from whole foods without eating large amounts of meat. And please show me evidence that eating that much meat is somehow unhealthy (and no, “do you genuinely not believe…” is not evidence). Until then, please stick to topics you have some unbiased knowledge about.

[quote]OneEye wrote:
I’m not “looking for an argument.” You run your mouth a lot for someone so new to this board.

You’re a former vegetarian. You think eating meat makes people smell bad. You have a very biased opinion.

Please tell me a better way to take in 400g of protein mostly from whole foods without eating large amounts of meat. And please show me evidence that eating that much meat is somehow unhealthy (and no, “do you genuinely not believe…” is not evidence). Until then, please stick to topics you have some unbiased knowledge about.[/quote]

You’re basing my value on how long I’ve been a member here!? I was a competitive athlete for over a decade and have spent the past 3 years studying nutrition. My mouth can write checks that my ass can cash.

Since you said please, I’ll share what I would eat if I wanted 400g of protein. here all the things in my diet that contribute to protein:

2 servings of low-fat yogurt
2 servings of skim milk
protein shake before/during/post WO
some BCAA
some brewer’s yeast
a few spoonfulls of wheat germ
a couple handfuls of nuts
an ounce of hulled seeds
lots of cabbage
a few whole eggs
a few cups of romaine
a couple servings of oatmeal, quinoa or barley
a few servings of fruit
a couple servings of broccoli
a couple servings of beans
a couple carrots

By now thats well over 200g of protein and no meats yet.

Add a few servings of meat and you’re around 400g.

Do you see everything you’d be missing out on by eating mostly meat? All the variety of vitamins and minerals? All the carbs? All the variety of flavors? All the fiber? That is why I said it was unhealthy. Getting half your calories from any one thing is unhealthy. Getting half your calories from fruit isn’t healthy. Getting half your calories from dairy isn’t healthy. Getting half your calories from oil isn’t healthy.

By the way, eating meat does make you produce body odor.

[quote]texass wrote:
OneEye wrote:
I’m not “looking for an argument.” You run your mouth a lot for someone so new to this board.

You’re a former vegetarian. You think eating meat makes people smell bad. You have a very biased opinion.

Please tell me a better way to take in 400g of protein mostly from whole foods without eating large amounts of meat. And please show me evidence that eating that much meat is somehow unhealthy (and no, “do you genuinely not believe…” is not evidence). Until then, please stick to topics you have some unbiased knowledge about.

You’re basing my value on how long I’ve been a member here!? I was a competitive athlete for over a decade and have spent the past 3 years studying nutrition. My mouth can write checks that my ass can cash.

Since you said please, I’ll share what I would eat if I wanted 400g of protein. here all the things in my diet that contribute to protein:

2 servings of low-fat yogurt
2 servings of skim milk
protein shake before/during/post WO
some BCAA
some brewer’s yeast
a few spoonfulls of wheat germ
a couple handfuls of nuts
an ounce of hulled seeds
lots of cabbage
a few whole eggs
a few cups of romaine
a couple servings of oatmeal, quinoa or barley
a few servings of fruit
a couple servings of broccoli
a couple servings of beans
a couple carrots

By now thats well over 200g of protein and no meats yet.

Add a few servings of meat and you’re around 400g.

Do you see everything you’d be missing out on by eating mostly meat? All the variety of vitamins and minerals? All the carbs? All the variety of flavors? All the fiber? That is why I said it was unhealthy. Getting half your calories from any one thing is unhealthy. Getting half your calories from fruit isn’t healthy. Getting half your calories from dairy isn’t healthy. Getting half your calories from oil isn’t healthy.

By the way, eating meat does make you produce body odor.[/quote]

There is absolutely nothing that says you can’t eat these foods, AND lots of meat. I find it a bit laughable trying to count oatmeal, romaine, carrots, fruit, broccoli, and cabbage as significant protein sources (certainly not complete proteins), but whatever. Technically, yes, you’re right. But the bulk of your protein in that list is in the milk, shakes, yogurt, and eggs, NOT the barley, broccoli, and cabbage. And if you look at his plan, he uses at least 2 of those protein sources (eggs and shakes). That’s a good 75-100g or more, so I’m not sure why you’re stuck on this “half” thing. That would be 437.5g of protein from meat, not 300-325.

I eat everything on your list but brewer’s yeast, barley, and wheat germ on a regular basis. But I’d feel like I was reaching a bit if I was counting the grams of protein in my romaine toward my intake (.58g per cup shredded).

BTW, I didn’t say anything about your “value.” I said you run your mouth a lot.

[quote]OneEye wrote:
There is absolutely nothing that says you can’t eat these foods, AND lots of meat. [/quote]

He can not shove in enough carbs and fats to eat as much meat as he does on 3500. I’ve said this several times and I gave why in my last post.

I didn’t say those were major protein sources. I even said otherwise.

But add nuts, seeds, and beans to major protein contributors.

I’m sorry I said half, I didn’t take the time to calculate it. That doesn’t change that half his calories are protein and he eats 8 servings of meat a day.

I didn’t say those were major protein sources. I even said otherwise.

I joined this site to exchange advice with others. You might not agree with my advice, but unless I say something distinctly false, don’t start an argument with me about it. And don’t be rude and snarky to me or other members.

cabbage as a protien source???..im not counting the protien from the non animal sources really…

i think carbs are necssary, but froreading Berardi,layne norton, swolecat,and many many others…keeping amajorit of thos carbs around breakfast and training sessions is optimal in not becoming a fatty…

im not afraid of carbs…but iwould like to not be grossly pudgy while putting on weight thenext 8 weeks…

some of my meals will be supplemented with whey protien…but i just came off of a year and ahalf long cut…started at 350, so imjust trying to actually eat…

all advice is appreciated, and i figuredid get alot of different opinions

[quote]texass wrote:
He can not shove in enough carbs and fats to eat as much meat as he does on 3500. I’ve said this several times and I gave why in my last post.[/quote]

Come on. This is absurd. You don’t have any idea how much he is capable of eating. I think it is absolutely possible. I know I could do it, and have before.

No, I consider nuts and seeds to be major fat contributors, and beans to be major carb contributors. Sure, they contain protein, but not in any significant amount.

And? You still have yet to show why this is bad.

So I’m not allowed to disagree with you unless you say something “distictly false?” You haven’t been on forums or been in real life conversations very much, have you? I will disagree with whomever I feel is misleading people. I believe your intentions are good, and I agree with you on some points, but I disagree that eating 8 servings of meat is unhealthy.

And I haven’t been rude to you. Or snarky. But I can be if you continue to tell me how I should interact with people.

I’m not interested in arguing this any further. We’ve both made our points, as far as I’m concerned. I’m done.

[quote]Tedpod wrote:
cabbage as a protien source???..im not counting the protien from the non animal sources really…

i think carbs are necssary, but froreading Berardi,layne norton, swolecat,and many many others…keeping amajorit of thos carbs around breakfast and training sessions is optimal in not becoming a fatty…

im not afraid of carbs…but iwould like to not be grossly pudgy while putting on weight thenext 8 weeks…

some of my meals will be supplemented with whey protien…but i just came off of a year and ahalf long cut…started at 350, so imjust trying to actually eat…

all advice is appreciated, and i figuredid get alot of different opinions

[/quote]

Carbs do not make you fat.

Carbs do not make you pudgy.

Eating 8 portions of meat a day is NOT unhealthy.

The biggest issue I see with your clean bulk is the lack of total carbs and total fat. I like a fairly even split of macros when bulking. And there is no reason in the world to break your meals up like that–especially when bulking.

[quote]texass wrote:
OneEye wrote:
There is absolutely nothing that says you can’t eat these foods, AND lots of meat.

He can not shove in enough carbs and fats to eat as much meat as he does on 3500. I’ve said this several times and I gave why in my last post.

I find it a bit laughable trying to count oatmeal, romaine, carrots, fruit, broccoli, and cabbage as significant protein sources (certainly not complete proteins), but whatever. Technically, yes, you’re right. But the bulk of your protein in that list is in the milk, shakes, yogurt, and eggs, NOT the barley, broccoli, and cabbage.

here all the things in my diet that contribute to protein:

I didn’t say those were major protein sources. I even said otherwise.

But add nuts, seeds, and beans to major protein contributors.

And if you look at his plan, he uses at least 2 of those protein sources (eggs and shakes). That’s a good 75-100g or more, so I’m not sure why you’re stuck on this “half” thing. That would be 437.5g of protein from meat, not 300-325.

I’m sorry I said half, I didn’t take the time to calculate it. That doesn’t change that half his calories are protein and he eats 8 servings of meat a day.

I eat everything on your list but brewer’s yeast, barley, and wheat germ on a regular basis. But I’d feel like I was reaching a bit if I was counting the grams of protein in my romaine toward my intake (.58g per cup shredded).

here all the things in my diet that contribute to protein:

I didn’t say those were major protein sources. I even said otherwise.

BTW, I didn’t say anything about your “value.” I said you run your mouth a lot.

I joined this site to exchange advice with others. You might not agree with my advice, but unless I say something distinctly false, don’t start an argument with me about it. And don’t be rude and snarky to me or other members.[/quote]

Unfortunately, you don’t get to decide how others interact.

And you did say something distinctly false–8 servings of meat a day is not inherently unhealthy. You are biased and based your statement on that bias.

Somewhat false would be stating that beans, seeds, and nuts are major contributors of protein. Hardly. Maybe if you are a vegetarian these qualify as A source, but you’d have to eat a lot of any or all to be ‘major.’

The main problem i see with this “bulk” is the lack of carbs. Being a former fattie you are likley scared to consume too many carbs in fear of a higher bodyfat percentage.

A clean bulk can work, but 3500 calories is not near enough. Eat clean foods, but eat a lot of them. Add in some pasta, rice, breads and cereals.
I personally wouldnt worry so much about the exact foods that you are eating and just eat. When I try to bulk I basically just make sure im eating something every 2 hours. When the waistline expands futher than what I feel is acceptable (which is a pant size for me, 34 right now and if a pair of 36 inch waist jeans become too tight) then I worry more about what im taking in for calories and adjust accordingly.
See Ya