T Nation

My Case and Questions


#1

I am 41 and until now have never used any type of gear. I started lifting in high school and have ever since. 4 years ago I wax diagnosed with a rare autoimmune disease called microscopic polyangitus. Went through 2 years of prednisone and other nasty drugs. Most of the two years was 60mg or higher on the pred.

If you know pred then you know what I delt with. I ballooned up to 350. After the good fight I was declared in remission June 2014. I worked myself down to 275. My pre diagnosis stats were 6'6 245 7.5% bf. At 41 after all that I had low test, no energy and looked nothing like I did pre mpa. I decided I wanted a jumpstart.

Spent a ton of time on this site and others like it learning from others. I decided to go pretty basic for my first run which I figured would be my only time. 30 days ago I started 500mg test cyp injected twice weekly on mon and thurs. I use a blocker on each injection day. My first two weeks were fantastic, I mean I haven't felt that good in years.

I started back in the gym few months prior but two weeks in and I just felt great. I jumped up to 285 over 3 weeks. My calories are in the 3700 range and high protein. I figured out my calories from formulas posted on this site and pretty much everything I am doing. I kept with the same Ole workout routines that I have always done and works for me.

My question is this. Just over three weeks in I start feeling exhausted. I mean worn the hell out. I don't feel the same quick recovery or energy I had the first 3 weeks. Muscles are sore days after I work them whereas the first several weeks they seemed to recover in 24-48 hours. I am tired throughout the day. I read sleep was important and I make sure I get 8 hours a night. I don't get it. I want that same feeling I had but can't get it back.

Any thoughts and advice is appreciated. I'll not whine about anyone who flames me either!


#2

when you say “blocker,” do you mean aromatase inhibitor? what is your dose?

i’m not gonna lie, i have no idea what a cycle can do to someone who has had autoimmune issues before…


#3

I have Crohn’s which is an autoimmune disease. There is some evidence that TRT helps keep it in remisison. In any case I haven’t had a flare up in years. I’m not sure how relevant this is to your situation. Hormones influence just about everything in your body so keep that in mind.

As far as lethargy, my suspicion is that your estrogen is high, or perhaps too low. Get bloodwork done.

And for guys like us, even though we read on our own, it’s still no replacement for going to a doctor and being monitored. Get on TRT if you’re going to fool around with steroids. And make sure a good doctor supervises you. And then tell the doctor who you go to for your MP so he knows. Ask both lots of questions.


#4

what does your training routine look like on a weekly basis?


#5

@Cycobushmaster - You are correct, I use arimidex, 1mg pills and I take 1 pill on each injection day. I think you and Joyfull hit the nail on the head. After reading you response and his about estrogen I did some more research. I didnt realize low estrogen would be an issue. I know I dont have high estrogen but in reading side effects of low estrogen it is exactly what I am feeling. Extreme fatigue, exhaustion and so on. I didnt know you had to balance it.

So, would it be better to cut to a half pill tomorrow which is injection day or skip it completely and not take any inhibitier?

Also, I was going to go 10 weeks total then take HCG at the end. If I am taking arimidex during cycle and HCG at the end is there a need for anything else like nolva?

@Mr. Walkway - My first thought was I was overtraining because with the increased recovery time I was able to go harder but I dont think I was over doing it. My usual routine is this and I would take any advice n regards to it whether I need to cutback and increase or change completely please feel free to give input. All my sets I do reps between 5-12.

Monday - AM Chest - Bench 5 sets, butterflys 5 sets, incline d-bells 3-4 sets then cardio 30 min

     PM Biceps/Triceps - barbell curls/tricep ext superset 5 sets, Hammer curls/tricep pushdowns superset 5 sets and then ABS

Tues - AM - Back - ? hammer machine but cant think of name for 5 sets, rows 5 sets and pull downs 3 sets then cardio

Wens - AM - Legs - squats 5 sets, ext 5 sets, leg curls 5 sets, calf raises 5 sets, abs

Thurs - AM - Shoulders - Press 5 sets, front raises, 5 sets, side raises 5 sets rear 3 sets and cardio 30 min.

1-2 days rest and repeat. every 6 weeks or so I change up exercises but it will still follow same format.

@Joyful - Chrones is something they talked about with me at first alond with Lupus. It took them a year to properly diagnose me with a kidney biopsy. Autoimmune disease suck but I guess all diseases do. Glad to hear you got through it as well.


#6

[quote]tmac34 wrote:
I am 41 and until now have never used any type of gear. I started lifting in high school and have ever since. 4 years ago I wax diagnosed with a rare autoimmune disease called microscopic polyangitus. Went through 2 years of prednisone and other nasty drugs. Most of the two years was 60mg or higher on the pred.

If you know pred then you know what I delt with. I ballooned up to 350. After the good fight I was declared in remission June 2014. I worked myself down to 275. My pre diagnosis stats were 6’6 245 7.5% bf. At 41 after all that I had low test, no energy and looked nothing like I did pre mpa. I decided I wanted a jumpstart.

Spent a ton of time on this site and others like it learning from others. I decided to go pretty basic for my first run which I figured would be my only time. 30 days ago I started 500mg test cyp injected twice weekly on mon and thurs. I use a blocker on each injection day. My first two weeks were fantastic, I mean I haven’t felt that good in years.

I started back in the gym few months prior but two weeks in and I just felt great. I jumped up to 285 over 3 weeks. My calories are in the 3700 range and high protein. I figured out my calories from formulas posted on this site and pretty much everything I am doing. I kept with the same Ole workout routines that I have always done and works for me.

My question is this. Just over three weeks in I start feeling exhausted. I mean worn the hell out. I don’t feel the same quick recovery or energy I had the first 3 weeks. Muscles are sore days after I work them whereas the first several weeks they seemed to recover in 24-48 hours. I am tired throughout the day. I read sleep was important and I make sure I get 8 hours a night. I don’t get it. I want that same feeling I had but can’t get it back.

Any thoughts and advice is appreciated. I’ll not whine about anyone who flames me either![/quote]

Hi man,

You need to build up the adex in your blood… according to the adex data sheet, after 7 days you will have 90 to 95% in blood concentration at steady state. You need to use it ED or EOD… 0,25mg to 1mg, depending on the case. Some guys use it E3D OR E4D, but I really don’t think it is a good idea, based on adex data sheet. Balance, steady is the key, keep strogen levels not too low and not high…

If you never used test before, it’s pretty normal to feel awesome first two/ three weeks and therefore, to feel not soooo great after that. Our body is very adaptative you’ll stop feeling superman after a while on steroids…


#7

yeah, i agree about getting the A-dex levels more stable, and prolly lower.

most guys start with .25 mg EOD, and adjust from there. some need more, but again, taking a pill twice a week leads to pretty unstable levels.

also, since low estrogen levels makes one drowsy, i’d take the A-dex in the evening.


#8

so if I am taking 1mg twice weekly wouldnt .25 EOD be almost the same amount? Should I go lower or start with .25 EOD and go from there?


#9

[quote]tmac34 wrote:
so if I am taking 1mg twice weekly wouldnt .25 EOD be almost the same amount? Should I go lower or start with .25 EOD and go from there?[/quote]

yeah, it’a similar total amount, but the effect is much different, as the blood levels aren’t stable.


#10

sounds like you got your AID tamed at least so happy to hear that man.

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]tmac34 wrote:
so if I am taking 1mg twice weekly wouldnt .25 EOD be almost the same amount? Should I go lower or start with .25 EOD and go from there?[/quote]

yeah, it’a similar total amount, but the effect is much different, as the blood levels aren’t stable.[/quote]

that’s 2mg vs .875mg so it’s less than half. this is a good starting point but you will probably still have to adjust.


#11

1 mg dosing of arimidex can wipe you the hell out. I might be going against everyone here, I would use 0.25 on injection days, if any at all. Too much AI can make you feel like crap, when I started, after one half of a pill, the following day my knees hurt so freaking bad and i was totally worn out. If you develop nipple sensitivity, adjust. With only 500 mgs test and no 19 nor or no anadrol, I wouldn’t get too carried away


#12

[quote]joyfull wrote:

that’s 2mg vs .875mg so it’s less than half. this is a good starting point but you will probably still have to adjust. [/quote]

^yeah, good point.

i think a new user will see 1 mg vs 2 mg and think that it’s not that big of a difference…


#13

Thank you all, I can tell you that without a doubt it is the adex. I am feeling much better already. Today was injection day so I will take a 1/4th a pill and go from there. Damn, I thought I had it all planned perfectly.

Thanks again.


#14

One more thing, I posted my current workout already. It does work from me but can I go harder on this cycle? I dont want to waste this first cycle if I could be training harder. I know it is suppose to help you recover fast and such but in my 20’s I listened to the wrong person training for football combines and lost 40 pounds in 3 weeks and I was benching 225 23 times and that went down to 5 reps. It was sad. An endrocrenologist helped me recover and get back but it was rough. It was just over training and not enough calories so my body used muscle for energy. So that is always on my mind. I am taking plenty of calories so what is to much and what is not enough?