T Nation

[My Case] 23yrs Old, Low Test

Hi guys,

I have been training for 3 years and recently decided to get my test levels checked, since i was suspecting something is wrong.

My stats:
-age 23
-height 6’
-weight 171
-bodyfat ~9-12%, abs visible
-describe body and facial hair: body hair is normal, facial hair grows very slow, can’t grow a beard

-describe where you carry fat and how changed: mostly on lower ab and love handles, the fat on lower abs does not go away, even with intense diet

-health conditions, symptoms [history] : very very intense night sweats every night, low libido, no motivation, feel depressed often, trouble building strenght + muscle

-Rx and OTC drugs: Never done any aas, accutane when i was 18 for ~6 months

-describe diet [some create substantial damage with starvation diets] : High fat, high protein, low carb. Chicken breas, lots of whey, lots of green vegetables, eggs, fish oil, cottage cheese
I rarely go out and consume alcohol, get at least 8 hours sleep every night

-describe training: 3-4 days a week intense weight training, push/pull, rarely cardio

-testes ache, ever, with a fever? No, but a while jogging several years ago they sometimes hurt really badly afterwards, don’t get this anymore though

-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed : don’t get morning wood ever, do have nocturnal erections frequently though
-I sometimes had trouble getting/ maintaining erection when i still was with girlfriend (2months ago)

So after suspecting something is wrong I got my test levels checked, in the morning around 10 am, i had breakfast before.
Here are the lab results, i will try to translate stuff if it is in german:

BKS = 4/–
ACTH 15,3 pg/ ml (Average Norm: 5-46)
BZ = 87 mg/dl (Average Norm: 80-140)
HbA1c= 4,9% (Average Norm: 5-7)
10 END -61955-1
Follitropin = 2,0 mlU/ml (Average Norm: 0,7-11,1)
Luteotropin= 5,1 mlU/ml (Average Norm: 0,8-7,6)
Prolaktin = 6,8 ng/ml (Average Norm: 2,5-17)
Estradiol = 47 pg/ml (Average Norm: <85)

Testosteron = 348 ng/dl; (Average Norm: 160-767) [i think saying 160ng/dl test is within normal male range is pretty ridiculous)

Thyreotropin (TSH) = 1,5 μlU/ml (Average Norm:0,27- 4,2)
Sexualhormone binding Globulin = 23 nmol/l (Average Norm: 10-57)
free t4= 1,3 ng/dl (Average Norm: 0,93-1,7)
cortisol = 8,6μg/ dl (Average Norm: 5-25)
Ferritin = 64 ng/ml (Average Norm: 30-400)
Anti TPO = 8,4 U/ml (Average Norm: 0- 35)
Anti - TSH Receptor = <0, 300 Norm <1,5

ok from here on it’s only abreviations, i will omit norm ranges, can write them down later, if required

16 END -02240025
ALBUM = 61,3%
A1GLOB = 3,5%
A2GLOB = 9,4%
BGLOB= 10,3%
GGLOB = 15,5%
GRBB Leuk = 4,8k/ μg
ERY = 5,5 mio./ μg
HB = 15,1 g /dl
HKT = 45,8%
MCV = 83,3 fl
MCH = 27,5pg
MHCH =33g/dl
PLT = 211k/microgram
BASO = 0,3%
EOS= 3,5%
NEUT = 53,5%
LYMP= 37,5 %
MONO = 5,3%
PROT = 7,5 g/dl
KREA = 0,93mg/dl
GFR = >60
NA= 143,3 mmol/l
K = 4,95 mmol/l
CA = 2,4 mmol/l
GGT = 10 U/l
TRI = 59 mg/dl
CHOL = 171 mg/dl
HDL = 56 mg/dl
LDL = 90mg/dl

Dehydroepiandrosteron = 325μg /dl
Growth Hormone = 0,39 ng/ml (Average Norm <3,0)
Somatomedin (IGF) 362 ng/ml

I also got checked out via ultrasound, results are: normal thyroid size, no knots in stomach, all my intestines are fine apparently

So basically my doctor told me i was fine and that my test levels are normal. I find that hard to believe considering 300 ng/dl test is considered low, even for a 40+ year old.

I would really appreciate someone giving me input here, i am very unsure what my options are here. shoudl i just live with my low test or try to take action, first step beeing seeing more doctors.
Also i hope that you guys are not lost with the german abbreviations and stuff.

Thank you very much,
Max

Estradiol is high. I had the about the same levels and three drops of liquidex brought me back down into the 20s. After awhile only needed two drops. If you don’t want to do that, you could try DIM and/or chrysin with piperine and/or Zinc. I’d probably do all of them if you don’t want to do liquidex. Getting this into the 20s might make a significant difference. You’ll keep more the T you are making and your LH should increase a bit from reduced E2 feedback.

Cortisol is low. Not sure if that should have been fasted. 24hr saliva test is probably a good idea after getting ferritin in order. Should probably try and get ferritin above 100 at least. Not sure if that would have been effected by not fasting.

Thank you for your quick answer. I already do supplement with Zinc. About the chrysin and piperine i will look into them since they are herbal based trying them won’t hurt

Considering a fasted test, i am contemplating doing one more bloodwork fasted, with a sleep deficiency and after a week of dieting to see how my test levels are then, basically i want to get them lower to see if i can get out of the normal range.

Would you aggree that my test levels are too low for an active 23 year old though? Or am i worrying too much?

Yes, your T is probably too low. I’ve struggled to stay around those levels and feel mostly shitty.

Do you want to get better or do you just want someone to give you T? If you want to try and get better, I would not bother trying to tank a test. There are plenty of things to can do to try and improve where you are. You should really start with your seemingly low cortisol and high E2. Ferritin could be better as well.

dhickey nailed it all.

Yes I do wan’t to get better, if possible naturally. On the other hand I’m working out like a madman and watch over my diet and rest times literally all the time, it is really frustrating to not really see the progress that other people, who give a damn about their diet and workouts + go out drinking all the time, have. If you know what I mean.

Okay so the points i should tackle are:
-E2
-Low Cortisol
-Ferritin

I found supplements online that contain chrysin and piperine, they aren’t exactly cheap though.
Concerning the liquidex… what i found so far is that it is an AI, which means estrogen blocker. The advice was to check blood levels again after one week of taking that stuff, to measure how one responds to that…

Could i try this stuff out without messing too much with my hormone levels? I mean is there any risk in taking it? I would really appreciate further advice, you guys seem really knowledgable.
Thank you

Liquidex would probably be a decent solution to your E2 levels. It definitely takes some tweaking and monitoring. I did three drops ED and went from your levels to the 20s. I did have to keep an eye on it and reduce to 2 drops. I’m off it for the time being, but most recently 2 drops takes me just into the teens, so I need to watch it. Mine is 1mg/ml and a drop is about .1ml.

I would be just as or more concerned with your cortisol. Supplementing iron and getting ferritin retested wouldn’t be a bad idea. Once you get that a bit higher, a 24hr Cortisol test is probably a good idea. If your read enough threads around here, you’ll see posters much more knowledgeable than me suggest you need to be at the top of the range first thing in the morning. You are very far from this.

If cortisol is still low STTM suggests licorice root, Ashwagandha, or rhodiola rosea might work for slightly low levels. They suggest that Isocort or adrenal cortex might be more appropriate for levels that are more than slightly low. If these don’t work, you are on to some more serious treatments.

Thank you for your reply, dhickey. I have still some questions regarding the liquidex though, if you don’t mind.
Does it have to be liquidex and not a different AI, like Arimidex? It would seem to me that pills would be easier to take and measure instead of a liquid substance? Is there any reason you took exactly liquidex and not a different AI?
How long did you take the liquidex for? Is there a chance that you body keeps you Estradiol relatively low even after taking liquidex or will everything go back to the way it was before once you stop taking it?

I think I am also going to confront more doctors with my results, focusing on asking about my E2, Cortisol and Ferritin.

liquidex = arimidex = anastrozole. Liquidex seems easier to dose on the low end.

You should only need to take enough to keep E levels in the 20s. My dosing went down as I lost weight, but my T is also low. I think most probably end up at a given dosage.

You should be able to go off it and be no worse off than you would be having never taken it.