T Nation

My 4 Weeker Experiment


#1

Heyyy guys,

Finally got around to trying those short, 4 weeker cycles I was talking about ages ago. Plan is 4 on, 4 weeks PCT, 4 weeks off, repeat.

I'm three weeks in to the first four weeker. Plan is to do at least 2 but probably 3. Cycle is:

-200mg prop eod
-60mg dbol/day

Love me some test and dbol. My musings so far:

-I have not bloated up really at all which is pretty unusual for me. Only thing I can put it down to is the shorter test ester. It's the only thing that's different.
-Prop stings like a bitch. I thought pharm grade stuff would be alright, but no.

Will let you guys know how these short yins compare to the more traditional cycle length.


#2

Thanks for this experiment, it will actually help clear out many myths floating around.

Yogi what are your views about short cycles (8 weeks duration) using long esters, Are they superior to moderate cycles (12 weeks) recovery wise or overall muscle retention wise?
Many vets are of the opinion that there's no point in cycling longer than 6-8 weeks as gains begin to fall after that period and going beyond only makes recovery difficult. Others say that long esters take about four to six weeks to kick in, especially without front-loading, and one should stay longer to reap full benefits. Many also say that when using stuff like hCG, caber, AI's etc on-cycle, it doesn't matter much recovery wise if the cycle length is short or moderate.


#3

I did something similar a couple years ago, a series of 2 on/5 off short cycles. Got some decent gains, spread out over a longer period than if I did one longer cycle. Lost about half of what I gained during each off period until I didn't gain hardly anything the last cycle (didn't increase cals on that one, so there you go).

Tip from my experience: I was doing two weeks on (test p, mast p, tren a), followed by a two week PCT (nolva 40/20), followed by another 3 weeks before I started back up. The last week off was always a grinder in the gym, I wasn't blood testing but in hindsight levels were probably crashing about that time. Also, about a month or so after finishing the last 2 week PCT, I felt like I crashed - losing strength in the gym, losing motivation overall, no energy, etc. I did a 4 week PCT at that point, and felt fine after that

You probably don't need the 4 week PCT every time since you are jumping right back on shortly after that, but I would recommend a full 4 week PCT (if not 5 or 6) after your last one, just to level things out. Be interesting to see how things run for you in this set up. Try and keep track of day to day stuff as well, attitude, motivation levels, energy, etc., just out of curiosity.

Now to sit back and wait for the inevitable flaming. "Short cycles are useless!!!"


#4

200mg Test P!!! Defo rather be splitting that bitch down into 1ml ED lol!

Good that there is something usefull going on to here about.

I personally think it will be too shorter length cycle, by about the 4th week its just starting to feel like your on something! (My experience)

I am currently chosing to do 8 week blasts with fast acting esters with 10-14 week cruises on Test e - I feel this is optimium.

If I start to cycle and PCT again I think I would still do 8 week fast acting cycles and similar length PCT...

In relevence to the post above - I dont think I will ever do a cycle longer than 12 weeks again (Recently did 16 weeks of Test E/Tren E and it started to feel slugish and a waste of pinning after the 11th week)


#5

That's a good question, and it's basically what led me to do this experiment in the first place.

I have pretty much always cycled with long esters, and I've always found that after 6 weeks or so the gains pretty much stop. This is regardless of dosages, compounds, etc. The medical literature actually supports this, showing myostatin upregulation after about 56 days (if I remember rightly which I probably don't).

So my long ester cycles went from being 12 weeks, to 10, to 8, and now I thinking well fuck it, why not just blast some short ones and get out while the going's good?

I personally won't ever cycle for more than 8 weeks ever again. I'm sure different people's results would be different, but for me it's just being shutdown for longer without any real benefit.


#6

Yeah I remember you did some short cycles a while back. 2 weeks to me seems like deliberately giving yourself blue balls as you're quitting just as shit gets interesting (I always find week 3 is when I really balloon up) so I didn't want to go as low as that.

You're right that I probably won't need the full 4 week PCT but fuck it, what's it going to hurt? And clomid comes in boxes of 30 anyway so I might as well!

I am running hCG on cycle as well, as always.


#7

Yeah I decided that 2ml eod would be better than 1ml ed. Dunno if that was right to be honest. 2ml of prop in an injection site is a bitch! Made the mistake of banging the full 2ml into my lateral delt. That was interesting.

I am expecting the gains to be modest, but the theory is that the increased recovery should make them productive so I dunno, I guess we'll just have to see.


#8

Oh and I'll be running a month of MK677 starting the 4th week of my 4 weekers and running 3 weeks into PCT.

Love MK677. That shit's bananas


#9

Can't wait to see how this treats you. It will be good to get some empirical results for once! , especially regarding short cycles. I was planning on trying a similar protocol, but with prop 50 ED and tren ace 75-100 ED for five weeks (hcg and AI throughout), followed by 4 weeks PCT, and then 3 weeks off, repeat... but glad you are trying something similar first and might wait to see how that goes. Also what kind of MK are you using, RC liquid or capsule preparations?


#10

Ja, although I dunno how empirical my jabberings really are!

Tren definitely seems to be the drug of choice and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little curious about running a smidge on my next 4 weeker...

I plan to get some bloodwork after the second 4 weeker so we'll see how fucked up my HPTA is after.

The MK677 is liquid. A squirt of that under the tongue. Bleurgh. Great drug though.


#11

Yeah, I'm a big fan as well , it is pretty much the only oral I use now. Sleep on it is great, it is very affordable if you source it right and it just makes me feel and look better overall. I'm not really sure how much it does for those lean gains, but if I eat a certain way I can definitely gain a few (or 7) lbs of water pretty quickly


#12

Yogi1,are you still running the 4 week cycles? I was following this tread and I have not seen any updates so I was wondering if you decided not to run more 4 week cycles and if so why?


#13

Hey man, I did one and it was pretty good but it was so much fucking pinning I've not bothered to do anymore.

They definitely work though. Seemed to recover pretty quickly but then recovery's never been all that hard for me.


#14

I'm contemplating doing some 4-6 week blasts with NPP or tren ace, maybe also prop. Waiting til my deca runs out first though.


#15

I would definitely run the prop. I have no real scientific basis for it but running two 19-nors together without a test base seems like it could be kinda horrific


#16

I'm on 200mg/wk of cyp for TRT already. That's the only reason why I said maybe prop. And I wouldn't do both the tren and NPP in the same cycle, but rather alternate for cut and bulk cycles.


#17

ah ok, that makes way more sense. I forget sometimes I'm the only guy on here who hasn't given up on his balls! Haha


#18

Haha! Unfortunately I gave up on mine at the age of 24 after I almost lost both of them after a botched vasectomy. My TRT is what got me into the game seriously rather than the other way around.


#19

BOTCHED VASECTOMY???

Jesus christ that's the stuff of nightmares!


#20

Yeah a nicked artery resulted in some tissue death and massive blood loss. My sack was sitting on top of my legs the size of a honeydew and my whole body was black and blue. Good times. 3 months of missed work and 2 surgeries later I have permanent ball pain, although high dose hCG has helped.