T Nation

My 1st Cycle. Making Sure I Do It Right


#1

Hey everyone, my names Josh. I'm new to the forums here but not the site haha. Been getting my info and doing my research pretty exclusively on T Nation.

Brief back ground. Been engaged in high intensity training for over 4 years. But only for the last year or so has my focus been getting stronger and bigger as compared to a jack of all trades type, I was lifting but also running 30+ miles a week and swimming 4-5 miles a week. I was training for Air Force Pararescue. Won't bother you guys with that story. But I made it 8 weeks through Indoc (selection) out of 11 and washed out. I took an entry level separation instead of getting stuck with a specialty (job) I didn't want. So for the last year since I've been back I've gained 20 pounds. My body fat when I was 150 in the AF was 7. Jut got it checked via the skin fold caliper test and I'm 9% now.

I really got into improving my power lifts about 6 months ago.

I went from a squat of 155 up to 235.

A grindy shoulder pain-ridden bench press of 185 to a clean pain free max of 225.

And a max deadlift of 181 (kilogram plates) to a max of 265.

Still weak as hell but I have improved.
My diet has always been good thanks to great habits from birth.

My supplementation is on point with whey protein, creatine, a multivitamin, fish oil and glucosamine.

My training I feel is good to. I was doing Jim Wendlers 5/3/1 for about 5 to bring up my strength. Now I've shifted to a overall improvement focus with. 5/4/3/2/1 for my strength lifts and 8x8 for bodybuilding.

Now to the question. I've taken the plunge and ordered my first cycle of Trestolone Acetate and nolvadex for my pct. 60ml 3 month cycle. 1ml every other day for the first 2 months. 2ml every other day for the last month. How does that plan sound? When should I start the nolvadex? Right after my last day? Or should I overlap it with the last week or so of trestolone acetate. Any advice for me? I really want to get the most bang for my buck. Thanks so much guys!

P.S. I don't see this as a magic formula. Lifting had been a part of my life since I was 15. And my passion for it has only grown at an immense rate. I'm pursuing a degree in sports and exercise science and want to become a strength and conditioning coach. This is a life long pursuit of strength and bodybuilding that I am on. I'm 20 years old. 21 in May.


#2

im assuming that trestelone is a blend of test and tren? or do you even know? I would definitely not recomment tren on a first cycle but you kinda did shit backwards and order stuff then asked about it…

secondly, you can’t list only ml’s as a dose, you need to list the mg’s per ml, otherwise no one knows how the hell much you are taking, there could be basically any number of mg’s in a ml.

Thirdly, you are only 20 and still developing hormonally and mentally, if you want to fuck with that be my guest, I couldn’t care less but you should be aware.

What you’re about to read I give credit to dt79 for posting in another thread, I just copied and pasted it here.
Androgenic anabolic steroid exposure during adolescence: ramifications for brain development and behavior.

Authors
Cunningham RL1, Lumia AR, McGinnis MY.
Author information
Journal
Horm Behav. 2013 Jul;64(2):350-6. doi: 10.1016/j.yhbeh.2012.12.009. Epub 2012 Dec 26.

Affiliation
Abstract
This article is part of a Special Issue “Puberty and Adolescence”. Puberty is a critical period for brain maturation that is highly dependent on gonadal sex hormones. Modifications in the gonadal steroid environment, via the use of anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS), have been shown to affect brain development and behavior. Studies in both humans and animal models indicate that AAS exposure during adolescence alters normal brain remodeling, including structural changes and neurotransmitter function. The most commonly reported behavioral effect is an increase in aggression. Evidence has been presented to identify factors that influence the effect of AAS on the expression of aggression. The chemical composition of the AAS plays a major role in determining whether aggression is displayed, with testosterone being the most effective. The hormonal context, the environmental context, physical provocation and the perceived threat during the social encounter have all been found to influence the expression of aggression and sexual behavior. All of these factors point toward an altered behavioral state that includes an increased readiness to respond to a social encounter with heightened vigilance and enhanced motivation. This AAS-induced state may be defined as emboldenment. The evidence suggests that the use of AAS during this critical period of development may increase the risk for maladaptive behaviors along with neurological disorders.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...ubmed/23274699/

fourthly, you don’t have a proper pct protocol outlined at all and no one can help you with that because you didn’t list how much you are taking.


#3

Eatliftsleep. It’s a derivative of nandrolone but with a 7alpha methyl group on it, if that makes sense. It’s not tren. From my understanding it’s very similar to testosterone. Yes I did do it backwards. I did do my research though. Just want the experts to give it a look over. And let me know if I need to change anything.
Thanks for the quick reply!

Josh


#4

Eatliftsleep. I apologize about the dosage. Trestolone acetate is 50mg=1ml.

The nolvadex I purchased is dosed for one dropper a day. A dropper being 20mg. I bought 2 bottles of
20mg x 60ml. I assumed I would keep the same dosage until the bottles run out? That would be 4 months. But I also read that it’s wise to take a dose anytime the nipples get sore as well as possibly starting it during the last week or 2 of the cycle?

Very interesting article. I really appreciate you posting it. However I will be turning 21 on the cycle. 21 is the age I read that it is recommended a user be. Should I wait the 3 months to be on the safe side?

Thanks again.

Josh


#5

if you’re going to ignore your age concerns and MUST do a cycle stick with test only, preferably enanthate or cypionate. Please for the love of god go read the stickies at the top of this forum. You also didn’t list anything about an aromatize inhibitor while on cycle.


#6

Eatliftsleep. The dosage converts to 50mg=1ml.

I appreciate you posting that article, very informative.

However I will be turning 21 while on the cycle. And I read that 21 is the recommended for someone to be to take a cycle.
Should I wait 3 months?

As for the PCT, the nolvadex I purchased is 1 dropper full a day. A dropper being 20mg.
I bought 2 bottles of 20mg x 60ml. And had planned on taking that dose until I ran out. I also read it was wise to take a dose anytimes the nipples felt sore. And to possibly start the nolvadex during the last week or 2 of the cycle.

I’ve been in contact with a family friend who has taken this and numerous other anabolics since 2002. I wanted a second opinion however.

Thanks again!

Josh


#7

Eatliftsleep. I was told that an AI or on cycle therapy was unnecessary for this product. Thanks


#8

What are the MGs per ml?

From what I’ve read it can be very hard on your body and also aromatizes to a potent form of estrogen.

And really your 20 and have only been lifting for over a year. You need to put more time in on your diet and training.


#9

What are your stats?

Recommended age to cycle is 25, not 21.


#10

You weigh 170lbs.

Your squat bench and deadlift are 235/225/265.

You don’t sound like you intend to compete or make this a living anytime soon.

Why the fuck are you even considering steroids at this level? Seriously? This is beginner level we’re talking about here.

You can make gains easily just by eating and training right.


#11

BUDs it’s 50mg per 1ml.

And as I stated my focus has been on lifting for the last year but I have trained in the gym for the last 4. The only reason I say 1 year is because before than my goals were to be a better overall athlete. But my training was similar albeit less intense due to the volume of my other training areas.

I also read it converts readily to estrogen. But was told this would not be to much of a problem as I did not seem to be overly sensitive to it during puberty. And that taking an AI although possibly safer would reduce gains and in the end wouldn’t really be needed. Again just giving you feedback from the family friend who knows a fair amount about this product.

Nooberific you can find my stats in the middle of my 1st post to start the thread.

I did not realize it was 25. The sites I’ve seen all said 18 or 21. But it’s become my practice to take training advice from tnation articles far more seriously than any other site. So I will do the same regarding this.

It strikes me that you guys get a lot of pukes on here looking for a get ripped quick scheme and resort to steroids. You don’t know me from anyone else I guess. But do know that my formula all my life has been: do a shit ton of research followed my extremely hard work. Do my prep and planning then commit 110% and go balls to the wall once I know how to do so sensibly. Same goes for this cycle.

Thanks for all the feedback. Keep it coming. I appreciate it.

Josh


#12

Dt79. I have no plan/ambition to compete at this point. Just a plan to improve and get every last drop of benefit I can from my training.
I want to be better and I want it bad. I’ve been small all my life. Believe it or not those are some pretty good gains from where I started. Both strength wise and regarding my physique, which is no where near impressive but is improving steadily through my training and nutrition. I’m not the biggest or strongest by ANY means by ANY standard. But I’m not the weakest or smallest anymore either. I’m really looking to improve at a faster rate in the thing that occupies my thoughts day and night. Thanks

Josh


#13

good luck mate, trestolone is 12x as suppressive as testosterone…


#14

Body building and training for the military are two totally different things. You are a beginner when it comes to lifting.

Your family friend is an idiot. Taking an AI isn’t gonna hinder your gains

Your 20, hormonally your still maturing.

Your not even living by your formula that your preaching. You’ve been lifting for a year, Max lifts are weak, and now are resorting to steroids, doesn’t sound 110% to me.

Ya we don’t know you, but we have a clue based on countless threads from people just like you. Doesn’t take much to get a grasp on you when your 170lbs been lifting for a year and have beginner max lifts. You may by dedicated, but things take time, and quite frankly you are looking for a get ripped quick scheme.

You need to research more on estrogen, why it’s important to manage it, how it effects you when it’s elevated, why you need to run an AI. Research more on the drug you are taking. More important research more on diet and training.


#15

[quote]Altair1017 wrote:
Dt79. I have no plan/ambition to compete at this point. Just a plan to improve and get every last drop of benefit I can from my training.
I want to be better and I want it bad. I’ve been small all my life. Believe it or not those are some pretty good gains from where I started. Both strength wise and regarding my physique, which is no where near impressive but is improving steadily through my training and nutrition. I’m not the biggest or strongest by ANY means by ANY standard. But I’m not the weakest or smallest anymore either. I’m really looking to improve at a faster rate in the thing that occupies my thoughts day and night. Thanks

Josh
[/quote]

You are assuming that a lot of us didn’t start scrawny and weak and put in the REAL hard work to not be scrawny and weak before considering steroids to REALLY take things to the next level. You are not special.

You are taking the easy way out. Don’t pretend to be doing otherwise. Don’t try to justify it.

Talk is cheap.


#16

[quote]BUDs wrote:
Body building and training for the military are two totally different things. You are a beginner when it comes to lifting.

Your family friend is an idiot. Taking an AI isn’t gonna hinder your gains

Your 20, hormonally your still maturing.

Your not even living by your formula that your preaching. You’ve been lifting for a year, Max lifts are weak, and now are resorting to steroids, doesn’t sound 110% to me.

Ya we don’t know you, but we have a clue based on countless threads from people just like you. Doesn’t take much to get a grasp on you when your 170lbs been lifting for a year and have beginner max lifts. You may by dedicated, but things take time, and quite frankly you are looking for a get ripped quick scheme.

[/quote]

To add to this, you haven’t even figured out how to eat and train past the beginner level.

Do you think after gaining 30lbs of lbm, gaining the next 10-20lbs will be the same? You think taking your squat from 225lbs to 315lbs is the same as going from 315lbs to 405lbs?

I’m not very familiar with how this generation thinks, but I can tell you a fact of life is some things have to be EARNED.


#17

[quote]Altair1017 wrote:
Dt79. I have no plan/ambition to compete at this point. Just a plan to improve and get every last drop of benefit I can from my training.
I want to be better and I want it bad. I’ve been small all my life. Believe it or not those are some pretty good gains from where I started. Both strength wise and regarding my physique, which is no where near impressive but is improving steadily through my training and nutrition. I’m not the biggest or strongest by ANY means by ANY standard. But I’m not the weakest or smallest anymore either. I’m really looking to improve at a faster rate in the thing that occupies my thoughts day and night. Thanks

Josh
[/quote]

Well if you don’t plan on competing and making a livin out of bodybuilding don’t risk premature damage to yourself by doing a cycle.

You also need to understand if your diet and training aren’t up to par, every gain you make on this cycle you will lose. The bigger you get and the more muscle you put on, you will now have to eat and train at that level.

and hate to say it but if you are naturally small you probably won’t be a big guy unless you continue to cycle or b/c and at this time in your life isn’t the best idea. You should work on everything else and spend the next 4-5 years getting as big and as strong as you can before using steroids


#18

Yogi. By suppressive what do you mean? You seem to know the product so if appreciate more input.

BUDs. This is why I posted in the 1st place to get more input like what you posted. I really appreciate it. I am most definitely a beginner in terms of strength and size. I was just trying to convey that my training, eating and recovery habits have been in use longer than that 1 year, the focus and intensity have just increased since then. What AI would you suggest? Not asking for an exact “how to” unless you’re offering. Just the name of a good one to work in conjunction with Trestolone and I’ll do the rest. Looking forward to hearing back from you.

Dt79. Thanks for the input. You seem to be ranting and making assumptions on who I am that have literally NOTHING to do with anything that I’ve said. I’m sure you’re quite knowledgeable and I will gladly listen to and heed ANY real advice or info you are willing to share.

Guys I know I’m still weak, never said I was anything else actually. The whole point of my taking my first cycle is to sumplement my diet and training to do what I enjoy even better. I want to do it safely and correctly though.

Thanks for all the feedback.


#19

If you want to do it safety don’t do it.

Suppression means your HPTA shutting down due to you injecting hormones into your body. Stopping your own production


#20

suppressive as in it’s hard to recover your natural T from. I don’t really know much about it but there was a big thread about it on another forum a few months back. Reviews were mixed.

It’s certainly not something you should consider for a first cycle.

And dt79 is (always) right. You are nowhere near advanced enough in your training for steroids. You’ll get a little bigger on cycle, then shrink back down again. You have been warned,