T Nation

Muslim Religion In CA Schools

Muslims are allowed 15 minutes of praying in an elementary school in California(Carver?), yet other religions are not able to practice there religions or customs in the U.S.A.

I am not one to start threads or to even reply to a post but this got me fired up. How are muslims allowed to practice there beliefs when Christians or any other religion is not allowed to. I have no links or sources to put up here, mainly because I am inept to such things, my computer skills are lacking. So if one feels to help me please do so in posting a link.

Where is the ACLU at? Separation of State does not matter to them anymore? Honestly why cant my brother pray, but a Muslim is allowed 15 minutes a day to lay out his mat and pray?

I am surprised some of the old t-faithful have not posted this topic yet. I really hope we can start something to stop this crap or to allow all religions to practice there faiths. T-men please speak up.

What are you saying? The Muslims are leading in prayer and everybody else has to follow?

Or are you saying when your Christian brother prays in silence, he’s hauled in by the religion gestapo? I somehow find that hard to believe.

My guess: it’s not only your comptr skills that are lacking.

Yup, that’s a bunch of horseshit. I don’t expect anything resonable from California Government institutions. Besides they need to start building cells here in the U.S. for successful terror campains. Why not start them young.

I am saying they are allowed 15 minutes of school in order to devote there faith, in this case Islam.

Okay here goes the link. Im not saying do not allow but if one is going to ban Christian prayer or any kind of religion besides Islam, whats next?
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20070702-9999-1n2prayer.html

[quote]jre67t wrote:
Okay here goes the link. Im not saying do not allow but if one is going to ban Christian prayer or any kind of religion besides Islam, whats next?
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20070702-9999-1n2prayer.html [/quote]

Fuss over nothing. Are Christians required to pray at specific hours?

Your argument is like saying the diabetic kid who gets a few minutes break for insulin administration is wrong.

Do you even know what principles the US was founded on?

[quote]lixy wrote:
jre67t wrote:
Okay here goes the link. Im not saying do not allow but if one is going to ban Christian prayer or any kind of religion besides Islam, whats next?
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20070702-9999-1n2prayer.html

Fuss over nothing. Are Christians required to pray at specific hours?

Your argument is like saying the diabetic kid who gets a few minutes break for insulin administration is wrong.

Do you even know what principles the US was founded on?[/quote]

As a foreigner I don’t think you grasp the concept of separation of church and state. Since public school is a state entity, no time shall be devoted to religious practice of any kind. Doesn’t matter how many times a day or at what time you pray. It’s the same thing as not being allowed to post the ten commandments. If an allotment is made for muslim practice it should be made for all practices.

WTF?

If this is real this is complete crap.

I’m all for “lets get along” and “the Muslims ain’t so bad, they’re like you and me”… but this crosses the line.

Nobody of ANY religion/group should get any special privileges because they are part of it. Not because of sex, race, religion, ethnic origin… etc.

This infringes on the rights of everybody else.

[quote]lixy wrote:

Fuss over nothing. Are Christians required to pray at specific hours? [/quote]

Irrelevant. Accommodations for religion are either on or off. The state, if it accommodates, doesn’t get to decide the particulars of what “requirements” of a religion are important and which are not.

You wouldn’t know what the US was founded on if you tripped over a copy of the constitution on your way to a protest.

The point here is not why are muslims allowed 15 minutes to pray and if Christians want to pray they can do so silently, it is the fact that NO Christians would be allowed to have an alloted time for prayer. It is simple to see that who’s side groups like the ACLU are on. It is an assult on Christianity.

[quote]fastwrx05 wrote:
The point here is not why are muslims allowed 15 minutes to pray and if Christians want to pray they can do so silently, it is the fact that NO Christians would be allowed to have an alloted time for prayer. It is simple to see that who’s side groups like the ACLU are on. It is an assult on Christianity.[/quote]

Because Christians have Sunday! Are Christians supposed to pray at certain times during the day? Other then just before eating and going to bed.(actually I do not know if they do, just what I remember).

[quote]snipeout wrote:
lixy wrote:
jre67t wrote:
Okay here goes the link. Im not saying do not allow but if one is going to ban Christian prayer or any kind of religion besides Islam, whats next?
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20070702-9999-1n2prayer.html

Fuss over nothing. Are Christians required to pray at specific hours?

Your argument is like saying the diabetic kid who gets a few minutes break for insulin administration is wrong.

Do you even know what principles the US was founded on?

As a foreigner I don’t think you grasp the concept of separation of church and state. Since public school is a state entity, no time shall be devoted to religious practice of any kind. Doesn’t matter how many times a day or at what time you pray. It’s the same thing as not being allowed to post the ten commandments. If an allotment is made for muslim practice it should be made for all practices.[/quote]

But we are still required to pledge allegiance to a nation under G-D. Does this count as an allotment???

Well I could of swore this country was founded by christians. But I am probably wrong.

When I was in a senior in high school they banned the prayer at the flag pole we had. I didn’t go, it was before class I barely made to school on time as it was. But I thought it was wrong that they banned that but said nothing to dipshits dumb enough to put their throw rugs on the floor in the hall. That was just a bad idea when most of us had to make sure to get to class on time.

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Well I could of swore this country was founded by christians. But I am probably wrong.

When I was in a senior in high school they banned the prayer at the flag pole we had. I didn’t go, it was before class I barely made to school on time as it was. But I thought it was wrong that they banned that but said nothing to dipshits dumb enough to put their throw rugs on the floor in the hall. That was just a bad idea when most of us had to make sure to get to class on time.

[/quote]

I’m not sure what you are trying to get at here but yes you are wrong, Jefferson claimed to be a “Materialist”. Although he attended church services on occasion he fervently spoke against Christian beliefs.

It is believed that our founding fathers were actually Deist.

“I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They
are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men,
women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been
burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this
coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to
support roguery and error all over the earth.” - The man himself

Not to boast but where are your arguments now? Stop arguing and getting worked up over a system that controls its people by emotional reaction.

Try to make it to school earlier. Then you can just walk around them.

[quote]meangenes wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
Well I could of swore this country was founded by christians. But I am probably wrong.

When I was in a senior in high school they banned the prayer at the flag pole we had. I didn’t go, it was before class I barely made to school on time as it was. But I thought it was wrong that they banned that but said nothing to dipshits dumb enough to put their throw rugs on the floor in the hall. That was just a bad idea when most of us had to make sure to get to class on time.

I’m not sure what you are trying to get at here but yes you are wrong, Jefferson claimed to be a “Materialist”. Although he attended church services on occasion he fervently spoke against Christian beliefs.

It is believed that our founding fathers were actually Deist.

“I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They
are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men,
women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been
burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this
coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to
support roguery and error all over the earth.” - The man himself

Not to boast but where are your arguments now? Stop arguing and getting worked up over a system that controls its people by emotional reaction.

Try to make it to school earlier. Then you can just walk around them. [/quote]

Who is “the Man”

I’m no longer in school, and it was between classes when the halls were packed most of the time.

And I belioeve what he was against was gov’t run religion like catholicism and anglicanism, But that is my opinion just like you have yours.

But that is not the argument, the argument is that if we couldn’t meet at the flag pole they weren’t taking up the hall.

Hey but your from a state where kids can’t play with sparklers but some guy with a turbon pumps our gas.

[quote]meangenes wrote:
apbt55 wrote:

I’m not sure what you are trying to get at here but yes you are wrong, Jefferson claimed to be a “Materialist”. Although he attended church services on occasion he fervently spoke against Christian beliefs.

It is believed that our founding fathers were actually Deist.

“I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They
are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men,
women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been
burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this
coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to
support roguery and error all over the earth.” - The man himself

Not to boast but where are your arguments now? Stop arguing and getting worked up over a system that controls its people by emotional reaction.

Try to make it to school earlier. Then you can just walk around them. [/quote]

John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]

John Adams:
�?? The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity�?� I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.�??
�?� �??[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.�??
�??John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress
“We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” --October 11, 1798
“I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen.” December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson
John Quincy Adams:
�?� �??Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" �??Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer’s mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
–1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.

Charles Carroll
" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure…are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." [Source: To James McHenry on November 4, 1800.]

Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
�?? God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel�?? �??Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech
�??In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered�?� do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?�?? [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]
In Benjamin Franklin’s 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach “the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern.”
In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as “a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone.”
Thomas Jefferson

�??The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.�??
�??Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.�??
Alexander Hamilton:
�?� Hamilton began work with the Rev. James Bayard to form the Christian Constitutional Society to help spread over the world the two things which Hamilton said made America great:
(1) Christianity
(2) a Constitution formed under Christianity.
�??The Christian Constitutional Society, its object is first: The support of the Christian religion. Second: The support of the United States.�??
On July 12, 1804 at his death, Hamilton said, �??I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.�??
“For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Constitution] a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests.” [1787 after the Constitutional Convention]

Or maybe to you these men were not part of the group of men that founded our country.

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
meangenes wrote:
Who is “the Man”?
[/quote]
The man I just mentioned… Thomas Jefferson

Look up definition of opinion.

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Hey but your from a state where kids can’t play with sparklers but some guy with a turbon pumps our gas.[/quote]
Lets just quote the entire internet.

“Religious Affiliation: Unitarian
Summary of Religious Views:
Adams was raised a Congregationalist, but ultimately rejected many fundamental doctrines of conventional Christianity, such as the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus, becoming a Unitarian. In his youth, Adams’ father urged him to become a minister, but Adams refused, considering the practice of law to be a more noble calling. Although he once referred to himself as a “church going animal,” Adams’ view of religion overall was rather ambivalent: He recognized the abuses, large and small, that religious belief lends itself to, but he also believed that religion could be a force for good in individual lives and in society at large. His extensive reading (especially in the classics), led him to believe that this view applied not only to Christianity, but to all religions.
Adams was aware of (and wary of) the risks, such as persecution of minorities and the temptation to wage holy wars, that an established religion poses. Nonetheless, he believed that religion, by uniting and morally guiding the people, had a role in public life.”

So don’t try to defend the possibility that any of these men were Christian. These men were intellectuals. Something that you have yet to grasp the concept of. What state I am from holds no merit in my understanding of The Declaration of Independence and it’s creators. As does yours. That’s painfully obvious.

We get school off on Sunday. And off on Saturday for jews.

Isn’t this just about the same shit?

Governments are only tolerant and understanding of those who are neither.

In other words, if Christians went nuts and freaked out about not being able to pray, they’d get their 15 minutes. Its because Christians are basically peaceful and tolerant that they can be safely ignored.