T Nation

Muslim Cleric: Women Are Meat

"Sheikh Feiz Muhammad last year told a Sydney audience that victims of sexual assault deserved to be raped :

She has no one to blame but herself, for she has displayed her beauty to the whole world. Strapless, backless, sleeveless - they are nothing but satanical.

Sheik Taj Din al-Hilali?Australia?s most super-dooper Sheik?has lately picked up on that same theme, according to the Australian:

In the religious address on adultery to about 500 worshippers in Sydney last month, Sheik Hilali said: ?If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it … whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?

“The uncovered meat is the problem.”

The sheik then said: ?If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."

…and we propose to establish a democracy, with voting and human rights, in the Middle East. LOL!

Driver’s Ed Teacher: You see, in America a woman gets to choose who she has sex with.
Borat: WHHHHaaaaaaaatttttt?

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
"Sheikh Feiz Muhammad last year told a Sydney audience that victims of sexual assault deserved to be raped:

She has no one to blame but herself, for she has displayed her beauty to the whole world. Strapless, backless, sleeveless - they are nothing but satanical.

Sheik Taj Din al-Hilali?Australia?s most super-dooper Sheik?has lately picked up on that same theme, according to the Australian:

In the religious address on adultery to about 500 worshippers in Sydney last month, Sheik Hilali said: ?If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it … whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?

“The uncovered meat is the problem.”

The sheik then said: ?If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."

…and we propose to establish a democracy, with voting and human rights, in the Middle East. LOL!
[/quote]
Sadly, many people in the US and other places with democracy, human rights, all the things we think of as making up a civilized society have said the same thing about victims of rape and sexual abuse: she was flaunting it; she got what she was asking for, what was she doing running in a sports top, anyway?

The cats and meat image is new to me, but the idea of blaming the victim is very old and still very common.

The article goes on to say that, according to Sharia Law, there must be 4 witnesses to a rape. Apparently three means the woman was having a ‘group encounter’.

[quote]marza wrote:
Sadly, many people in the US and other places with democracy, human rights, all the things we think of as making up a civilized society have said the same thing about victims of rape and sexual abuse: she was flaunting it; she got what she was asking for, what was she doing running in a sports top, anyway?
[/quote]

I dont think I have ever heard anyone here say a woman has ever deserved a rape.

A few years ago during the Puerto Rican day parade in NYC a few girls were stripped naked. A friend of mine, female and Puerto Rican, said it was the girls fault. They knew what happened in that area during the parade yet they went over there parading around. She never goes to “that side” because it has a reputation of getting out of hand, like it did. In her words “They were stupid asses for going there and going there dressed as they were. I dont feel sorry for them.”

I wouldn’t go so far as to call women, “meat,” but they are certainly not people. Duh.

[quote]PGA wrote:
marza wrote:
Sadly, many people in the US and other places with democracy, human rights, all the things we think of as making up a civilized society have said the same thing about victims of rape and sexual abuse: she was flaunting it; she got what she was asking for, what was she doing running in a sports top, anyway?

I dont think I have ever heard anyone here say a woman has ever deserved a rape.
[/quote]

If you mean “here” at T-Nation, then, no probably not, if you mean “here” as the US, you may not be hearing it, but it gets said.

You may not be old enough to remember, but just one example that sticks in my mind - Central Park Jogger. She was raped and beat to shit. Lots of comments at the time about “well, what was she doing running in a sports top?” with the point being that she got what was coming to her.

[quote]
A few years ago during the Puerto Rican day parade in NYC a few girls were stripped naked. A friend of mine, female and Puerto Rican, said it was the girls fault. They knew what happened in that area during the parade yet they went over there parading around. She never goes to “that side” because it has a reputation of getting out of hand, like it did. In her words “They were stupid asses for going there and going there dressed as they were. I dont feel sorry for them.”[/quote]

This seems to me to be exactly sort of thinking that the Muslim Clerics quoted by the OP would agree with.

Both men and women frequently display this sort of thinking. Women can be very judgemental about other women. There’s also a distancing thing involved - a way of saying “I’m not stupid and I wouldn’t dress that way, so it won’t happen to me.” But, ultimately my opinion* is that no one deserves to get raped or assaulted even if they’ve got the bad judgement to walk down an alley in the worst part of town stark naked.

*and I hope this is an opinion that most would share.

ummm, while not as bad, in South Africa rape is very much blamed on the victim. They have to hide their identities to protect themselves. Just look up the latest case with Zuma.

But you know, 2 sheiks represent all of the middle east, kinda like how that sick church that celebrates soldiers’ deaths represents all of christianity…

[photo]3639[/photo]
Women are what – you a@#hole?

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
…and we propose to establish a democracy, with voting and human rights, in the Middle East. LOL![/quote]

Those aren’t working out that well in the US either…

Read this.

On 15 August, 2004, Atefah Sahaaleh was hanged in a public square in the Iranian city of Neka.

Her death sentence was imposed for “crimes against chastity”.

The state-run newspaper accused her of adultery and described her as 22 years old.

But she was not married - and she was just 16.

Sharia Law

In terms of the number of people executed by the state in 2004, Iran is estimated to be second only to China.

In the year of Atefah’s death, at least 159 people were executed in accordance with the Islamic law of the country, based on the Sharia code.

Since the revolution, Sharia law has been Iran’s highest legal authority.

Alongside murder and drug smuggling, sex outside marriage is also a capital crime.

As a signatory of the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights, Iran has promised not to execute anyone under the age of 18.

But the clerical courts do not answer to parliament. They abide by their religious supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, making it virtually impossible for human rights campaigners to call them to account.

Code of behaviour

At the time of Atefah’s execution in Neka, journalist Asieh Amini heard rumours the girl was just 16 years old and so began to ask questions.

To teach others a lesson, Atefah’s execution was held in public

“When I met with the family,” says Asieh, “they showed me a copy of her birth certificate, and a copy of her death certificate. Both of them show she was born in 1988. This gave me legitimate grounds to investigate the case.”

So why was such a young girl executed? And how could she have been accused of adultery when she was not even married?

Disturbed by the death of her mother when she was only four or five years old, and her distraught father’s subsequent drug addiction, Atefah had a difficult childhood.

She was also left to care for her elderly grandparents, but they are said to have shown her no affection.

In a town like Neka, heavily under the control of religious authorities, Atefah - often seen wandering around on her own - was conspicuous.

It was just a matter of time before she came to the attention of the “moral police”, a branch of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard, whose job it is to enforce the Islamic code of behaviour on Iran’s streets.

Secret relationship

Being stopped or arrested by the moral police is a fact of life for many Iranian teenagers.

Previously arrested for attending a party and being alone in a car with a boy, Atefah received her first sentence for “crimes against chastity” when she was just 13.

Although the exact nature of the crime is unknown, she spent a short time in prison and received 100 lashes.

Atefah was soon caught in a downward spiral of arrest and abuse

When she returned to her home town, she told those close to her that lashes were not the only things she had to endure in prison. She described abuse by the moral police guards.

Soon after her release, Atefah became involved in an abusive relationship with a man three times her age.

Former revolutionary guard, 51-year-old Ali Darabi - a married man with children - raped her several times.

She kept the relationship a secret from both her family and the authorities.

Atefah was soon caught in a downward spiral of arrest and abuse.

Local petition

Circumstances surrounding Atefah’s fourth and final arrest were unusual.

The moral police said the locals had submitted a petition, describing her as a “source of immorality” and a “terrible influence on local schoolgirls”.

But there were no signatures on the petition - only those of the arresting guards.

Men’s word is accepted much more clearly and much more easily than women

Mohammad Hoshi,
Iranian lawyer and exile

Three days after her arrest, Atefah was in a court and tried under Sharia law.

The judge was the powerful Haji Rezai, head of the judiciary in Neka.

No court transcript is available from Atefah’s trial, but it is known that for the first time, Atefah confessed to the secret of her sexual abuse by Ali Darabi.

However, the age of sexual consent for girls under Sharia law - within the confines of marriage - is nine, and furthermore, rape is very hard to prove in an Iranian court.

“Men’s word is accepted much more clearly and much more easily than women,” according to Iranian lawyer and exile Mohammad Hoshi.

“They can say: ‘You know she encouraged me’ or ‘She didn’t wear proper dress’.”

Court of appeal

She was my love, my heart… I did everything for her, everything I could

Atefah’s father

When Atefah realised her case was hopeless, she shouted back at the judge and threw off her veil in protest.

It was a fatal outburst.

She was sentenced to execution by hanging, while Darabi got just 95 lashes.

Shortly before the execution, but unbeknown to her family, documents that went to the Supreme Court of Appeal described Atefah as 22.

“Neither the judge nor even Atefah’s court appointed lawyer did anything to find out her true age,” says her father.

And a witness claims: “The judge just looked at her body, because of the developed physique… and declared her as 22.”

Judge Haji Rezai took Atefah’s documents to the Supreme Court himself.

And at six o’clock on the morning of her execution he put the noose around her neck, before she was hoisted on a crane to her death.

Pain and death

During the making of the documentary about Atefah’s death the production team telephoned Judge Haji Rezai to ask him about the case, but he refused to comment.

The human rights organisation Amnesty International says it is concerned that executions are becoming more common again under President Mahmoud Ahmedinajad, who advocates a return to the pure values of the revolution.

The judiciary have never admitted there was any mishandling of Atefah’s case.

For Atefah’s father the pain of her death remains raw. “She was my love, my heart… I did everything for her, everything I could,” he says.

He did not get the chance to say goodbye.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/5217424.stm

Muslims worship death. Being a Muslim means surrendering your mind to God. But what are we, if we have surrendered our rationality to the ‘Morality Police’?

Islam is a religion of peace…of the grave.

[quote]pookie wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
…and we propose to establish a democracy, with voting and human rights, in the Middle East. LOL!

Those aren’t working out that well in the US either…[/quote]

Are we going the way of Canada?

[quote]marza wrote:
You may not be old enough to remember, but just one example that sticks in my mind - Central Park Jogger. She was raped and beat to shit. Lots of comments at the time about “well, what was she doing running in a sports top?” with the point being that she got what was coming to her.

Both men and women frequently display this sort of thinking. Women can be very judgemental about other women. There’s also a distancing thing involved - a way of saying “I’m not stupid and I wouldn’t dress that way, so it won’t happen to me.” But, ultimately my opinion* is that no one deserves to get raped or assaulted even if they’ve got the bad judgement to walk down an alley in the worst part of town stark naked.

*and I hope this is an opinion that most would share.
[/quote]

I share your opinion that nobody deserves to get raped; I hope you share mine that people you overhear saying ignorant shit or a girl someone knows who makes a foolish comment about the Puerto Rican Day parade are not the same as a leading clergyman of a major world religion, especially when that clergyman is speaking to an enormous crowd of worshippers from a religious pulpit at one of the holiest times of the year.

If you’re in the business of making prepared speeches that carry the weight of substantial religious authority, I think you have the responsibility to be a little more careful than the average person spouting some half-formed idea to a couple of their friends. Can we share this opinion, too?

[quote]Ren wrote:
But you know, 2 sheiks represent all of the middle east, kinda like how that sick church that celebrates soldiers’ deaths represents all of christianity…[/quote]

The guy is the LEADING MUSLIM CLERIC in Australia, not the leader of some ridiculous fringe group like that crazy church (most of whose followers turn out, by the way, to be members of the same family).

That said, I’m glad there’s been at least some outcry from the Australian Muslim community (various Muslim women’s groups, etc.), but there ought to be a lot more – there’s no way this man should be allowed to keep his position.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

…and we propose to establish a democracy, with voting and human rights, in the Middle East. LOL!

[/quote]

That’s the plan of your beloved Bush smart guy.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
"Sheikh Feiz Muhammad last year told a Sydney audience that victims of sexual assault deserved to be raped :

She has no one to blame but herself, for she has displayed her beauty to the whole world. Strapless, backless, sleeveless - they are nothing but satanical.

Sheik Taj Din al-Hilali?Australia?s most super-dooper Sheik?has lately picked up on that same theme, according to the Australian:

In the religious address on adultery to about 500 worshippers in Sydney last month, Sheik Hilali said: ?If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it … whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?

“The uncovered meat is the problem.”

The sheik then said: ?If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."

…and we propose to establish a democracy, with voting and human rights, in the Middle East. LOL!

[/quote]

And Pat Robertson prayed for the assasination of a Presidential candidate! And we call America a peace loving nation. LOL!

What the hell is your point? Crazy fuckers exist? Or that their happen to be a few more media attractive muslim crazy fucks than christian crazy fucks?

Do you seriously beleive this view is shared by all the Mid East just because one of them had the stupidity to say it?

Australia Muslim cleric suspended

Australia’s top Muslim cleric has been barred from preaching for up to three months, after comparing immodestly dressed women to “uncovered meat”.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6090136.stm

[quote]makkun wrote:
Australia Muslim cleric suspended

Australia’s top Muslim cleric has been barred from preaching for up to three months, after comparing immodestly dressed women to “uncovered meat”.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6090136.stm
[/quote]

As he should be. He should be shut up and locked away in solitary for a while with books to read on Islamic women’s rights. Dumb idiot. Uncompassionate and misguided Muslims such as this guy only make Western perceptions of Islam worse.