“The far right is long on fear mongering and short on providing supportive evidence. They ignore major polls by Gallup, Pew and others that show that the vast majority of Muslims are politically, economically middle class and educationally integrated into American society. Their desire not to be confused by the facts contributes to a growing climate of Islamophobia that has led to discrimination, hate crimes, violence, desecration of mosques and the violation of the civil liberties of Muslim Americans. Surveys have shown that Muslims are not looking to install Islamic law in the U.S., promote terrorism or undermine the American Constitution.”
Survey does not equal actuality. I also didn’t see any support for “contributes to a growing climate of Islamophobia that has led to discrimination, hate crimes, violence, desecration of mosques and the violation of the civil liberties of Muslim Americans”
Yeah it’s horse shit. Yet another attempt by the left to make the GOP appear bigoted and rigid. WE really do need a proper third party, I just don’t see the other parties not squashing it. Look at the Tea Party, a grassroots movement sucked into the vortex of the GOP. I dare say it made the GOP a little better, there is tremendous room for improvement. The libertarians can’t seem to get any traction, but the fault is their own, they’ve done a lousy job getting their message out.
[quote]zahmad wrote:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/guest-voices/post/muslim-bashing-by-gop-candidates-nothing-new-here/2011/06/17/AGvBouYH_blog.html
“The far right is long on fear mongering and short on providing supportive evidence. They ignore major polls by Gallup, Pew and others that show that the vast majority of Muslims are politically, economically middle class and educationally integrated into American society. Their desire not to be confused by the facts contributes to a growing climate of Islamophobia that has led to discrimination, hate crimes, violence, desecration of mosques and the violation of the civil liberties of Muslim Americans. Surveys have shown that Muslims are not looking to install Islamic law in the U.S., promote terrorism or undermine the American Constitution.”[/quote]
Then you must not read the news. You’re from Tennessee, i’m sure you heard of Murfreesboro, maybe you live there? CNN did a documentary on it.
Or how about protesting the fundraising for a women’s shelter?
and clearly Cain and Gengrich are discriminating based on religion.
This is a chain letter I got from someone, I don’t know the authenticity of it, but I understand the sentiment
[quote]Open Letter From An American Airline Pilot
CANADIAN COMMENT APPEARS AT THE END OF THE ARTICLE AND IS MEANINGFUL, TO SAY THE LEAST ALONG WITH SOME RECENTLY ADDED BRITISH COMMENT.
This pilot hit the nail right on the head in his open letter.
The paper stated that some Muslim doctor is saying we are profiling him because he has been checked three times while getting on an airplane.
The following is a letter from a pilot.This well spoken man, who is a pilot with American Airlines, says what is in his heart, beautifully…
If you truly believe in fair & reasonable objectivity - Read, absorb and pass this on.
YOU WORRY ME!
By Captain John Maniscalco, American Airlines Pilot
I’ve been trying to say this since 911, but you worry me. I wish you didn’t. I wish when I walked down the streets of this country that I love, that your color and culture still blended with the beautiful human landscape we enjoy in this country. But you don’t blend in anymore. I notice you, and it worries me.
I notice you because I can’t help it anymore. People from your homelands, professing to be Muslims, have been attacking and killing my fellow citizens and our friends for more than 20 years now. I don’t fully understand their grievances and hate, but I know that nothing can justify the inhumanity of their attacks.
On September 11, ARAB-MUSLIMS hijacked four jetliners in my country. They cut the throats of women in front of children and brutally stabbed to death others. They took control of those planes and crashed them into buildings, killing thousands of proud fathers, loving sons, wise grandparents, elegant daughters, best friends, favorite coaches, fearless public servants, and children’s mothers.
The Palestinians celebrated, the Iraqis were overjoyed as was most of the Arab world. So, I notice you now. I don’t want to be worried. I don’t want to be consumed by the same rage, hate and prejudice that has destroyed the soul of these terrorists But I need your help. As a rational American, trying to protect my country and family in an irrational and unsafe world, I must know how to tell the difference between you, and the Arab/Muslim terrorist.
How do I differentiate between the true Arab/Muslim Americans and the Arab/Muslim terrorists in our communities who are attending our schools, enjoying our parks, and living in OUR communities under the protection of OUR constitution, while they plot the next attack that will slaughter these same good neighbors and children?
The events of September 11th changed the answer. It is not my responsibility to determine which of you embraces our great country, with ALL of its religions, with ALL of its different citizens, with all of its faults. It is time for every Arab/Muslim in this country to determine it for me.
I want to know, I demand to know and I have a right to know, whether or not you love America . Do you pledge allegiance to its flag? Do you proudly display it in front of your house, or on your car? Do you pray in your many daily prayers that Allah will bless this nation; that He will protect it and let it prosper? Or do you pray that Allah with destroy it in one of your Jihads? Are you thankful for the freedom that this nation affords? A freedom that was paid for by the blood of hundreds of thousands of patriots who gave their lives for this country? Are you willing to preserve this freedom by also paying the ultimate sacrifice? Do you love America ? If this is your commitment, then I need YOU to start letting ME know about it.
Your Muslim leaders in this nation should be flooding the media at this time with hard facts on your faith, and what hard actions you are taking as a community and as a religion to protect the United States of America … Please, no more benign overtures of regret for the death of the innocent, because I worry about who you regard as innocent. No more benign overtures of condemnation for the unprovoked attacks, because I worry about what is unprovoked to you. I am not interested in any more sympathy; I am interested only in action. What will you do for America - our great country - at this time of crisis, at this time of war?
I want to see Arab-Muslims waving the AMERICAN flag in the streets. I want to hear you chanting 'Allah Bless America '. I want to see young Arab/Muslim men enlisting in the military. I want to see a commitment of money, time and emotion to the victims of this butchering and to this nation as a whole.
The FBI has a list of over 400 people they want to talk to regarding the WTC attack. Many of these people live and socialize right now in Muslim communities. You know them.
You know where they are. Hand them over to us, now! But I have seen little even approaching this sort of action. Instead I have seen an already closed and secretive community close even tighter. You have disappeared from the streets. You have posted armed security guards at your facilities. You have threatened lawsuits. You have screamed for protection from reprisals.
The very few Arab/Muslim representatives that HAVE appeared in the media were defensive and equivocating. They seemed more concerned with making sure that the United States proves who was responsible before taking action. They seemed more concerned with protecting their fellow Muslims from violence directed towards them in the United States and abroad than they did with supporting our country and denouncing ‘leaders’ like Khadafi, Hussein, Farrakhan, and Arafat.
If the true teachings of Islam proclaim tolerance and peace and love for all people, then I want chapter and verse from the Koran and statements from popular Muslim leaders to back it up. What good is it if the teachings in the Koran are good, pure, and true, when your ‘leaders’ are teaching fanatical interpretations, terrorism, and intolerance? It matters little how good Islam SHOULD BE if huge numbers of the world’s Muslims interpret the teachings of Mohammed incorrectly and adhere to a degenerative form of the religion. A form that has been demonstrated to us over and over again. A form whose structure is built upon a foundation of violence, death, and suicide. A form whose members are recruited from the prisons around the world. A form whose members (some as young as five years old) are seen day after day, week in and week out, year after year, marching in the streets around the world, burning effigies of our presidents, burning the American flag, shooting weapons into the air. A form whose members convert from a peaceful religion, only to take up arms against the great United States of America, the country of their birth. A form whose rules are so twisted, that their traveling members refuse to show their faces at airport security checkpoints, in the name of Islam.
We will NEVER allow the attacks of September 11, or any others for that matter, to take away that which is so precious to us -our rights under the greatest constitution in the world. I want to know where every Arab Muslim in this country stands and I think it is my right and the right of every true citizen of this country to demand it. A right paid for by the blood of thousands of my brothers and sisters who died protecting the very constitution that is protecting you and your family.
I am pleading with you to let me know. I want you here as my brother, my neighbor, my friend, as a fellow American. But there can be no gray areas or ambivalence regarding your allegiance, and it is up to YOU, to show ME, where YOU stand. Until then, ?YOU WORRY ME!?
CANADIAN COMMENTS:
I totally agree with this sentiment. I hope you will forget all about the ‘political correctness’ mandate we’ve had rammed down our throats, and see if this doesn’t ring true in your heart and mind. For Canada , with all the multiculturalism we’ve been told is so important…why should we not, as Canadians, expect that the millions of new people immigrating to our country will show their love for our country, their allegiance to our country, their willingness to obey the laws of our country, and acceptance that we are a Christian country? Just because they are able to enjoy exercising their own religion, they should not expect us to be ashamed of ours. They knew Canada was a Christian country when they came here. Why are we erasing Christianity because immigrants who are unwilling to adopt our way of life expect us to? There is just too much insanity in the world, and we have to start taking a stand.
I hope you will forward this, so that others will feel they are not alone if they are starting to feel the same.
BRITAIN?S COMMENTS:
At last a clear non racist example of the concerns that the vast majority of our Nation?s population probably share. The pilot?s letter encapsulates all that is fair and just about national pride and protection of one?s national culture. I fear it may be too late here in UK but we too want our country back in the form that attracted all these different cultures to come here in the first place!! In all our conversations with a wide range of friends and acquaintances we have not met one that disagrees with our own views. If only we all had the courage of our convictions to pass this on ? it is a statement that should be accepted as the heart-felt feelings of someone with honest commendable national pride.
THIS IS TOO GOOD TO JUST READ AND DELETE – LET’S SATURATE NEW ZEALAND , AUSTRALIA , UK , EUROPE, USA , CANADA AND THE REST OF THE ?FREE? WORLD WITH THIS ONE![/quote]
Says you
http://www.onthewing.org/user/Islam%20-%20Muslim%20Brotherhood%20Project.pdf
Can also be found in this thread
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/world_news_war/the_muslim_brotherhood_project_pts_1_and_2
[quote]- Instrumentally using existing Western institutions until they can be converted and put into service of Islam;
- Drafting Islamic constitutions, laws and policies for eventual implementation;[/quote]
[quote]
‘The event is a rally, a call for the Sharia, a call for the Muslims to rise up and establish the Islamic state in America,’ said Imam Anjem Choudary, one of the proposed speakers.[/quote]
[quote]
The process of implementing Muslim family law will not be accomplished overnight. Changes of their type take place very slowly in American society, and our community is far from being prepared for this tak. I commend the continental council of Masajid for organizing this conference, and bringing together so many workers and thinkers. I pray to Allah the real decisions are made here that can be implemented by those ready to work. However, I strongly urge that consideration be given to political realities and the sensitivities of the American public. Such a radical change in American lawâ??allowing Muslims to take control over their family law issues - must be initiated from the indigenous Muslim community here in the United States. To have it seem that this initiative is originating from overseas or from organizations financed overseas, would create a very negative impression that would likely destroy this effort.[/quote]
Might get shit on for this but oh well.
It’s not that all muslims wants to take over or be terrorists, it’s that the one’s that do, are pretty fucking bad. I’ve had the opportunity to meet what I believe to be moderate muslims, and I don’t look at them any differently than anyone else.
The best thing the moderate muslims could do to remedy this, is to not enable them(the radical) any more, ie don’t just be silent about their actions, condemn them for the injustices they do.
I have some friends in Serbia, if you wanted to own land there, you can, as long as a Serbian can own land where you’re from. It’s called reciprocation.
I look at immigration the same way. If my countries citizens aren’t safe in your country, then why would we allow that countries citizens to immigrate here? You’re literally importing potential problems. It’s a potential trojan horse just waiting to happen. At best, I would think that heavy screening(ie background check) of anyone wanting to immigrate to your country from areas where your countries citizens aren’t safe, would be appropriate. I hope that came out how I think it did.
[quote]zahmad wrote:
Then you must not read the news. You’re from Tennessee, i’m sure you heard of Murfreesboro, maybe you live there? CNN did a documentary on it.
Or how about protesting the fundraising for a women’s shelter?
and clearly Cain and Gengrich are discriminating based on religion.
[/quote]
“As the hand book spells out, the organization’s ultimate goal is “the Establishment of Islam” as the sole basis of global society and governance. It also encourages members to deceive people in its proselytizing campaign to help fulfill this goal.”
“ICNA’s magazine has featured interviews with terrorist leaders in Pakistan, called on youth to fight abroad in Kashmir, and honored like-minded extremist organizations like the Muslim Brotherhood and South Asia’s Jamaat-e-Islami. Concerns have also been expressed about 5 young members of the group’s Virginia mosque, who were arrested and convicted on terrorism charges after attempting to link up with and fight for Pakistani terror groups in December 2009.”
“The group also realizes that achieving its aim is a slow process and involves several stages. In a section called, “Levels of work by the Islamic Movement,” ICNA lists five stages to attain a global Caliphate. The group advocates spreading its view of Islam to Muslims and non-Muslims alike, starting with the individual and family, and then implementing the “Establishment of the Religion” in the society, state, and global level.”
[quote]zahmad wrote:
Then you must not read the news. You’re from Tennessee, i’m sure you heard of Murfreesboro, maybe you live there? CNN did a documentary on it.
Or how about protesting the fundraising for a women’s shelter?
and clearly Cain and Gengrich are discriminating based on religion.
[/quote]
Churches get vandalized too, what does that mean?
The article asserted causation between what the candidates said and increasing violence against Muslims. Nothing you’ve posted in any way corroborates that.
[quote]zahmad wrote:
Or how about protesting the fundraising for a women’s shelter?
and clearly Cain and Gengrich are discriminating based on religion.
[/quote]
Next, You are flat out lying. They were protesting the organization, not the woman’s shelter. They group doing the fund raising also has channeled money to Hamas.
Lastly, discriminating based on beliefs is OKAY. Not all discrimination is bad. Nor did they mention discriminating based on religion, but based on being pro-US.
“How do I differentiate between the true Arab/Muslim Americans and the Arab/Muslim terrorists in our communities who are attending our schools, enjoying our parks, and living in OUR communities under the protection of OUR constitution, while they plot the next attack that will slaughter these same good neighbors and children?”
I don’t know buddy, how do you know that your mailman isn’t a psychopath planning to one day rape you children and skin you alive. Surely there have been psychotic mailmen in the past.
There good and bad Muslims, as there are good and bad people of every creed, color, religion, race, occupation, political ideology, and dick size.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
“How do I differentiate between the true Arab/Muslim Americans and the Arab/Muslim terrorists in our communities who are attending our schools, enjoying our parks, and living in OUR communities under the protection of OUR constitution, while they plot the next attack that will slaughter these same good neighbors and children?”
I don’t know buddy, how do you know that your mailman isn’t a psychopath planning to one day rape you children and skin you alive. Surely there have been psychotic mailmen in the past.
There good and bad Muslims, as there are good and bad people of every creed, color, religion, race, occupation, political ideology, and dick size.[/quote]
This is fundamentally flawed logic.
There were no good Nazis. (if they were good, they weren’t Nazis)
There are no good slave owners.
If I belong to the religion of “commit a rape every day” I’m not good.
Beliefs and actions should not be fundamentally protected from discrimination. They are not in any way like race, color, or dick size.
Something being a religion should not guarantee it’s protection.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
“How do I differentiate between the true Arab/Muslim Americans and the Arab/Muslim terrorists in our communities who are attending our schools, enjoying our parks, and living in OUR communities under the protection of OUR constitution, while they plot the next attack that will slaughter these same good neighbors and children?”
I don’t know buddy, how do you know that your mailman isn’t a psychopath planning to one day rape you children and skin you alive. Surely there have been psychotic mailmen in the past.
There good and bad Muslims, as there are good and bad people of every creed, color, religion, race, occupation, political ideology, and dick size.[/quote]
This is fundamentally flawed logic.
There were no good Nazis. (if they were good, they weren’t Nazis)
There are no good slave owners.
If I belong to the religion of “commit a rape every day” I’m not good.
Beliefs and actions should not be fundamentally protected from discrimination. They are not in any way like race, color, or dick size.
Something being a religion should not guarantee it’s protection.[/quote]
It is your analogy which is flawed. Islam is not comparable with Naziism or chattel slavery.
To be clear, you can argue there is nothing inherently violent, or Anti-American in Islam. You can say there is nothing in Islamic belief that warrants discrimination. BUT the notion that for the sole reason that it’s a religion and therefore can’t be discriminated against is faulty.
Pick up the nothing wrong with Islam torch and run with it if you want, but I’m not going there today.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
“How do I differentiate between the true Arab/Muslim Americans and the Arab/Muslim terrorists in our communities who are attending our schools, enjoying our parks, and living in OUR communities under the protection of OUR constitution, while they plot the next attack that will slaughter these same good neighbors and children?”
I don’t know buddy, how do you know that your mailman isn’t a psychopath planning to one day rape you children and skin you alive. Surely there have been psychotic mailmen in the past.
There good and bad Muslims, as there are good and bad people of every creed, color, religion, race, occupation, political ideology, and dick size.[/quote]
This is fundamentally flawed logic.
There were no good Nazis. (if they were good, they weren’t Nazis)
There are no good slave owners.
If I belong to the religion of “commit a rape every day” I’m not good.
Beliefs and actions should not be fundamentally protected from discrimination. They are not in any way like race, color, or dick size.
Something being a religion should not guarantee it’s protection.[/quote]
It is your analogy which is flawed. Islam is not comparable with Naziism or chattel slavery.[/quote]
It is in every way necessary to invalidate your argument. Being a religion should not grantee acceptance.
And if a historical record (or possible interpretive support) of violence is enough to disqualify a religion and its adherents from protection under the law, then Christians had better start getting used to profiling, invasions of privacy, and vituperative open letters written by jackasses and disseminated via email chains.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
To be clear, you can argue there is nothing inherently violent, or Anti-American in Islam. You can say there is nothing in Islamic belief that warrants discrimination. BUT the notion that for the sole reason that it’s a religion and therefore can’t be discriminated against is faulty.[/quote]
Very true. My point is that Islam deserves the protection that Christianity and Judaism deserve. Criminals and murderers deserve condemnation and punishment under the law–as individuals.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
To be clear, you can argue there is nothing inherently violent, or Anti-American in Islam. You can say there is nothing in Islamic belief that warrants discrimination. BUT the notion that for the sole reason that it’s a religion and therefore can’t be discriminated against is faulty.[/quote]
Very true. My point is that Islam deserves the protection that Christianity and Judaism deserve. [/quote]
But doesn’t that also mean they can be mocked and ridiculed in a similar fashion as Judaism and Christianity are?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
To be clear, you can argue there is nothing inherently violent, or Anti-American in Islam. You can say there is nothing in Islamic belief that warrants discrimination. BUT the notion that for the sole reason that it’s a religion and therefore can’t be discriminated against is faulty.[/quote]
Very true. My point is that Islam deserves the protection that Christianity and Judaism deserve. [/quote]
But doesn’t that also mean they can be mocked and ridiculed in a similar fashion as Judaism and Christianity are?[/quote]
Certainly. I’m referring specifically to people who would like to see them stripped of equality under the law or political power.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]zahmad wrote:
Or how about protesting the fundraising for a women’s shelter?
and clearly Cain and Gengrich are discriminating based on religion.
[/quote]
Next, You are flat out lying. They were protesting the organization, not the woman’s shelter. They group doing the fund raising also has channeled money to Hamas.
Lastly, discriminating based on beliefs is OKAY. Not all discrimination is bad. Nor did they mention discriminating based on religion, but based on being pro-US.[/quote]
They were protesting the organization by screaming at children and people there to raise funds for a shelter. And then suggested that marines go shoot them all.