T Nation

Muscle & Superiority: Why?


#1

EDITED: People seem to misunderstand my point. So I'm restating slightly.

Focus

Even if there are many intelligent contributors to this forum there is still one area where I feel many are somewhat delusional. I'm not attacking anyone but why, oh why is it that some people feel that:

Muscle is ALWAYS better

Examples of things people will say:

1) Don't worry, you'll meet plenty of other women. This one was given opportunity to meet an interesting very muscular man and she blew it.

2) All skinny guys are losers.

3) Man X is a better man because he trains hard and is disciplined.

Remarks to the above

1) Yes, this is/was a body-building forum so clearly we discuss physiques in that frame of mind, bigger and leaner is better. Why though do we feel the need to quantify the loss of this girl through reference to muscle? Surely it would be better just to say: "You're a damned nice, smart and cool guy" or "You're in great shape".

The point is: the initial statement infers that the greater the muscularity the greater the loss.

2)Skinny guys do not all suck. I consider myself the same guy as I was before I trained and got big. My ability to "get big" was in the most primordial sense linked to my character (which existed way before my near 500lbs squat did).

3)Yes he's disciplined and his hard work over the years will pay off. That is admirable but why is he a better person to Mr B? Mr B might be skinny but Mr B may run 3 charities. He may not have ever gotten into lifting and might think it is silly (everyone does really before getting into it) but his commitment and discipline towards helping [insert good cause here] may well be greater?

I'm not saying that everyone here thinks that a disciplined trainer is better than everyone, nor that everyone would agree with 1) or 2). I don't do absolutes.

More, as Vegita said:

Most of the problems come from PEOPLE who view their goals as superior to other peoples goals.


#2

I think lifting weights can actually make you a better, more disciplined person. That’s not to say that you won’t find big guys who are actually dickheads and do fit the stereotype.

I see what you mean though, however why do people that don’t lift often find it necessary to make fun of bigger guys?

Jealousy and envy? Perhaps. I think it’s a characteristic in a persons personality, and they would act like they are better when comparing themselves with people poorer than themselves too, for example.


#3

[quote]RSGZ wrote:
I think lifting weights can actually make you a better, more disciplined person. That’s not to say that you won’t find big guys who are actually dickheads and do fit the stereotype.

I see what you mean though, however why do people that don’t lift often find it necessary to make fun of bigger guys?

Jealousy and envy? Perhaps. I think it’s a characteristic in a persons personality, and they would act like they are better when comparing themselves with people poorer than themselves too, for example.[/quote]

I agree and as you said, same goes with the reverse. I’m not sure but perhaps envy. That and they think it comes easy.Or that it’s cheating if you take protein powder. You’re mucles are actually just water and that it’ll all turn to fat later.


#4

[quote]swissrugby67 wrote:
RSGZ wrote:
I think lifting weights can actually make you a better, more disciplined person. That’s not to say that you won’t find big guys who are actually dickheads and do fit the stereotype.

I see what you mean though, however why do people that don’t lift often find it necessary to make fun of bigger guys?

Jealousy and envy? Perhaps. I think it’s a characteristic in a persons personality, and they would act like they are better when comparing themselves with people poorer than themselves too, for example.

I agree and as you said, same goes with the reverse. I’m not sure but perhaps envy. That and they think it comes easy.Or that it’s cheating if you take protein powder. You’re mucles are actually just water and that it’ll all turn to fat later.

[/quote]

“It turns to fat when you stop working out”, ofcourse.

I’ve noticed that well trained people tend to be a little less ignorant about many things in life. I’m not saying I’m well trained though.


#5

[quote]RSGZ wrote:
swissrugby67 wrote:
RSGZ wrote:
I think lifting weights can actually make you a better, more disciplined person. That’s not to say that you won’t find big guys who are actually dickheads and do fit the stereotype.

I see what you mean though, however why do people that don’t lift often find it necessary to make fun of bigger guys?

Jealousy and envy? Perhaps. I think it’s a characteristic in a persons personality, and they would act like they are better when comparing themselves with people poorer than themselves too, for example.

I agree and as you said, same goes with the reverse. I’m not sure but perhaps envy. That and they think it comes easy.Or that it’s cheating if you take protein powder. You’re mucles are actually just water and that it’ll all turn to fat later.

“It turns to fat when you stop working out”, ofcourse.

I’ve noticed that well trained people tend to be a little less ignorant about many things in life. I’m not saying I’m well trained though.[/quote]

But you are saying you’re not ignorant yeah? :wink:


#6
  1. All skinny guys are losers.

I hear ya. A lot of people say that. I used to believe that when I was even skinnier 15-18 years ago (which is what got me into weight lifting.) I grew out of it when I realized there were other, more important things in life than pigeonholing myself into a notion of aesthetics that depends on the subjective judgment of others.

Intelligent people with a modicum of decency grow out of it, or never even abide by that type of generalization, or any negative generalization at all.

There are smart people and fucktard people, and we just need to take their words for what they are, and for who they are.


#7

[quote]swissrugby67 wrote:
But you are saying you’re not ignorant yeah? :wink: [/quote]

That’s what I like to think, haha.


#8

I think the big vs. the skinny is the fact that niether understands the other side’s goals. The big know how much hard work it is to get there and the people who want to be small think they are are the more disciplined (like hours of cardio a week).

As far as the debate, people should just let people be what they want to be. I think it’s funny when people come on here and talk about being big like it’s a bad thing. What are you doing hanging here?!?! There are plenty of other places that would better suit you. Don’t feed the trolls.


#9

[quote]tootles27 wrote:
As far as the debate, people should just let people be what they want to be.[/quote]

As long as them being hugely obese and lazy slobs doesn’t affect me by having to pay more taxes for their healthcare, then yes, I agree.


#10

I don’t know Swiss, I am willing to bet that successful people don’t spend their time worrying about what other people think or say because they are too busy being successful.


#11

[quote]RSGZ wrote:
tootles27 wrote:
As far as the debate, people should just let people be what they want to be.

As long as them being hugely obese and lazy slobs doesn’t affect me by having to pay more taxes for their healthcare, then yes, I agree.[/quote]

That’s not entirely true. The largest burden of taxpayer funded healthcare, about 80%, is spent on the last 6 months of peoples lives.

In other words - old people who don’t want to die.

Smokers, the obese, and alcoholics don’t cost nearly as much as people want to believe.


#12

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I don’t know Swiss, I am willing to bet that successful people don’t spend their time worrying about what other people think or say because they are too busy being successful.[/quote]

QFT.


#13

Yea, goals make a pretty big difference. Pretty much being big only makes you better if it is one of your goals to be big. If your goal is to run an elite level marathon time, then no, being big would not be a very good idea. If your goal was to be a buddhist monk, then I’m guessing being big would not be a good thing either.

Most of the problems come from PEOPLE who view thier goals as supirior to other peoples goals. Really if a big guy who has a superiority complex got into astronomy instead of lifting, he would view all people who didn’t study astronomy as “inferior” it has little to do with the actual goals and levels of achievements.

The funny thing is, people who are elitist pricks are funny people, I mean they are on such a high horse it’s usually quite easy to nock them off it, and the resulting humiliating scramble to try to get back on that horse can be a lot of fun.

V


#14

[quote]skaz05 wrote:
RSGZ wrote:
tootles27 wrote:
As far as the debate, people should just let people be what they want to be.

As long as them being hugely obese and lazy slobs doesn’t affect me by having to pay more taxes for their healthcare, then yes, I agree.

That’s not entirely true. The largest burden of taxpayer funded healthcare, about 80%, is spent on the last 6 months of peoples lives.

In other words - old people who don’t want to die.

Smokers, the obese, and alcoholics don’t cost nearly as much as people want to believe.[/quote]

I’d like to know where you got those statistics and how old they are. I don’t believe them for a second.

V


#15

[quote]Vegita wrote:

Most of the problems come from PEOPLE who view thier goals as supirior to other peoples goals. Really if a big guy who has a superiority complex got into astronomy instead of lifting, he would view all people who didn’t study astronomy as “inferior” it has little to do with the actual goals and levels of achievements.

[/quote]

That’s what I was trying to get at. Thanks for saying it better.


#16

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I don’t know Swiss, I am willing to bet that successful people don’t spend their time worrying about what other people think or say because they are too busy being successful.[/quote]

Successful people are only truly successful if they are able to analyze and anticipate [what other people think or say in particular] rather than stick with what’s working now.

It’s about being one step ahead.


#17

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I don’t know Swiss, I am willing to bet that successful people don’t spend their time worrying about what other people think or say because they are too busy being successful.[/quote]

Well said.

OP - who gives a fuck? It’s a message board. If skinny guys want to be skinny, fat guys want to be fat, fuck it. It doesn’t affect me at all. They can chop their motherfuckin arms off for all I care.


#18

[quote]skaz05 wrote:
RSGZ wrote:
tootles27 wrote:
As far as the debate, people should just let people be what they want to be.

As long as them being hugely obese and lazy slobs doesn’t affect me by having to pay more taxes for their healthcare, then yes, I agree.

That’s not entirely true. The largest burden of taxpayer funded healthcare, about 80%, is spent on the last 6 months of peoples lives.

In other words - old people who don’t want to die.

Smokers, the obese, and alcoholics don’t cost nearly as much as people want to believe.[/quote]

That’s another thing that amazes me.

People don’t know shit for shit where their tax money is going EVER. They don’t know how it gets sent to the county, then the state, then the Fed, or what the breakdown is, or what projects and legislator’s pockets it’s going into.

But they got the balls to say, “Look at that fat guy, he’s costing us money.” Keep thinking that dipshit- that’s exactly what the politicians would have you think.


#19

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I don’t know Swiss, I am willing to bet that successful people don’t spend their time worrying about what other people think or say because they are too busy being successful.

Well said.

OP - who gives a fuck? It’s a message board. If skinny guys want to be skinny, fat guys want to be fat, fuck it. It doesn’t affect me at all. They can chop their motherfuckin arms off for all I care.[/quote]

I’m not pissed off or even irritated. Heck,as far as my actual life goes I’m indifferent to what could be said/thought on an internet forum. That’s not the point.

A forum is a “public” meeting place for open discussion. I’m interested if anyone else ever thought twice about it the whole thing (original post). About why and who say/think these things and for what reason.


#20

You raise a good point here, Swiss. Some here seem to forget that this website is about developing into a better person not just about who gets the biggest. It is as if the size of one’s arm/chest/thigh equates to their worth as a human being. People make decisions that are not always in line with what will make them bigger. Sometimes time can be better spent than in the gym or eating. It seems some forget or fail to realize this.

I do not think it is an issue of superiority but rather the opposite. It falls in line with the ideas surrounding the ‘body project.’ With a movement away from meta-narratives, i.e. religion, people feel a need to define who and what they are-and they are increasingly turning to their own body as a symbol of value. So now we are all demigods struggling for superiority in a growing pantheon.