T Nation

Muscle Strength Increasing Faster than Tendons

Obviously strength can dramatically increase on a cycle. And many people hurt themselves thinking that they’re bodies tendons can handle that dramatic strength increase. I figure no amount of wraps or preventive measures can stop it to a certain degree when people max out their lifts when they’re tendons have not strengthened to the same degree as the muscle has.

So my question is what would you guys consider a amount of weight not to go over on muscle groups. For example if you add 100 pounds to most your lifts in one month. What would be a good rule of weight not to go past your base line off cycle strength levels. I don’t consider joint discomfort as a good stopping sign because by then you have already started the damage and when the water retention in your joints dissipates you will notice it. Since all muscles are different in strength capacity a percentage might be easier to calculate than going over each muscle group and weight. I was thinking it would be smart not to go over 25 percent of your normal base line weight. Maybe im wrong maybe it should be less or more.

It seemed like a good topic to me and maybe this is where power lifting naturally before doing gear can help some one because of that increased tendon strength. I think that’s one reason why ronnie coleman got so much bigger because of his tendon strength from natural power lifting before using strength enhancing compounds.

As you touched on in your last paragraph, it can really be effected by the training history you have. I suspect that lifelong powerlifters who finally decide to turn to the dark side will be at MUCH less risk of injury than your average BB bro who wants to take a cycle.

Trying to put a number on that is too hard IMO.

I never really try and hit my max on cycle. I usually never go below 6 reps

Im having trouble figuring out the point of this thread.

We all know muscles grow faster than tendons. Since no tendon is the same in the human body trying to calculate their each individual load capacity while “on” would be harder than finding a one-eyed quadricorn living in mountains of who gives a shit.

People who will experience 100lbs increase in weights on cycle will 99% of the time be total noobs who have no business using or experienced PL running test,tren,drol or maybe halo. (Im not saying there arent a few exceptions)

Im leaving the Ronnie Coleman tendon thing alone for now as I have not had enough coffee to read that sentence without my head hurting.

when on i always use 3 or 4 extra warm up sets and i also go pretty slow on all movements, no jerky, bouncy lifts. making my lifts smooth and slow has helped my joints considerable… in the end im sure its better for muscle growth too.

i keep my sets normally no lower than 5.

[quote]ty_ty13 wrote:
when on i always use 3 or 4 extra warm up sets and i also go pretty slow on all movements, no jerky, bouncy lifts. making my lifts smooth and slow has helped my joints considerable… in the end im sure its better for muscle growth too.

i keep my sets normally no lower than 5.[/quote]
What do you call that bucking bronco deadlift set you posted a video of? If that’s not jerky than what is? Dried beef?

lol tatoo’d poppeye i predicted you would say exactly what you did before i looked at the comments. It’s a interesting question and it makes a better bodybuilder in the long run because they don’t injure them selfs and have a longer career. And i bet when kevin levrone took 6 months off bodybuilding and didn’t have a off season just a cutting phase where he went on cycle his strength shot up dramatically.He would loose around 50 pounds in the off season.

If you do 3 cycles a year every year or are on trt and running cycles of course your not going to notice as big of a strength increase. And I think the ronnie coleman comment is pretty accurate i made. He would have gotten injured alot sooner if it wasn’t for him maxing out his natural abilities and power lifting. I think thats why alot of the newer bodybuilders fade away so quick now days either because they get injured from lifting to heavy or they did gear to build the base of their physique and have no other way to enhance it except more gear.

The point of the thread was to try and determine injury prevention techniques mainly based on weight percentage increases. But as the conversation went on i realized the rep range is more important because it is a better indicator of how well you can handle the weight and is easier to determine.

Slow and steady wins the bodybuilding race in the end. And honestly watching a lot of pro bodybuilding video’s has made me wonder this question because you see them doing crazy lifts.Its easy to believe thats the answere to bigger size. And then you read how all the ones who did that have torn muscles and fucked up tendons that end theyre career. Look at dorian yates how many damn muscle tears he had in 1997. Than you look at dexter jackson who had a different style of training and has been competing every year since 1998 to date.

So theres a good point to the thread and that pretty much is the point. I know its common knowledge that tendons don’t grow as fast as muscles. So that is why I wanted other peoples opinions on the whole aspect of lifting enough weight to maxamize results and minimize possible long term damage. There is a small line between damage and growth and some times the mind can take more than your body can and be your worst enemy.

Alot of the information i have learned from the members on this site combined with my motivation have increased my physical natural ability a pretty crazy amount and I am able to train harder and gain muscle at a rate that is actually hard for me to comprehend in just a 2 1/2 month period part is due to muscle memory. I had set backs for 2 years. I trained for 4 years religiously before that. So strength and injure prevention are becoming more important to me.

Cause i know even 500 mgs a week of test is gonna make me insanely strong compared to what i am now. So that is my motivation for this post. And the answer’s I got may have saved me from a injury. Don’t go under 6 reps when strength is increased dramatically on cycle, keep consistent pace and possibly look into power lifting while i’m still naturally training to increase tendon strength. All great advice!

[quote]incredulous wrote:

[quote]ty_ty13 wrote:
when on i always use 3 or 4 extra warm up sets and i also go pretty slow on all movements, no jerky, bouncy lifts. making my lifts smooth and slow has helped my joints considerable… in the end im sure its better for muscle growth too.

i keep my sets normally no lower than 5.[/quote]
What do you call that bucking bronco deadlift set you posted a video of? If that’s not jerky than what is? Dried beef?[/quote]

that was from a while back… i’ve lived, got hurt and learned… lol. i now reset after each deadlift and dont use straps on that exercise.

I wasn’t trying to stunt your creative thinking process, I was just trying to push your tendon theory into the focus of AAS usage. In all honesty if Ronnie attributes his success to stronger tendons from powerlifting than who Im I to argue with him.

It has been my experience both with myself and others than tendon injuries more times than not self induced. Not warming up properly, slacking on maintenance/prevention exercises and most of all poor/bad technique. Even experienced lifters fail to pay attention to form sometimes and get hurt.

I will put it another way, BB’s use AAS and lighter weights than PL’s.
PL’s use AAS and heaver weights than BB’s.

We would think that PL’s would have a greater rate of tendon injury than BB’s, yet PL’s have a lower rate of injury than BB’s and several other sports. Is that because PL’s are anal and perform every rep exactly as intended to be performed? Or are BB’s pushing their tendons further than PL’s?

It would also seem rep ranges have nothing to do with this scenario?

I believe your on to something and I hope you research into this further.

But my question from the beginning would have been, Is there a direct link to tendon injury and the use of AAS? Or is the under lying issue people not taking care of their bodies, poor recovery and bad/flawed technique?

Ok, my own post got me too thinking over the past couple of hours.

I was thinking on Kroc’s career. He has torn, detached, ripped and damaged just about every joint/tendon/muscle in his body over time. This posed a number of questions to me?

Could some people be genetically predisposed to tendon/injuries?

Is mentally recovering more important than physically recovering?

Hang around gyms long enough and you will noticed two types of guys. One blows out a shoulder and you never see or hear from him again, until he texts you 6 months later asking if you know anyone that wants to buy his bench shirt? Two the other guy who blows out his shoulder and is back 12 weeks later lifting and rehabbing. Is being injured really what separates winners from losers and long careers from short ones?

You have a good point. Im not sure but Maybe people who are strong willed and get back into the gym quicker might stop long term damage to by getting blood flow back into the muscles and around tendons compared to the guy who just gets depressed and gives up and doesn’t even go to rehab for the tendons. And then maybe the tendons stiffen or some sort of scar tissue develops around them or in them. I Don’t know to much about tendons so i’m not sure if what i said really makes sense or if tendons can even have scar tissue.

Also come to think about it when you concentrate on a muscle and the contraction it grows more and faster I wonder if positive thoughts and concentrating on the tendon some how gets your brain to heal it faster. It seems like a lot of sick people who have positive attitudes and mental strength heal faster than the ones who are depressed and hopeless maybe there’s some sort of connection that works with all injuries.

I wonder also if the stress from giving up and knowing you gave up and believing your not going to ever heal can release more cortisol and inhibit recovery. You always hear about smaller bodybuilders willing the muscle to grow with theyre mind they want it so bad maybe you can will recovery if you want it bad enough and the damage isn’t to extreme.