Muscle Groups Once Per Week?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
21

[quote]Buff Sax Dude wrote:

I don’t know. WestSide guys throw around heavy weights using an upper-lower split enabling them to hit everything twice per week in only 4 sessions. I know they are powerlifters, but some of those guys carry a lot of muscle.

Obviously what you’re doing is working for you so it’s not as if I’m suggesting you change for the sake of changing. I was simply curious as to your reasoning for doing what you do.[/quote]

Correct, you DON’T know. The stress from training to build muscle and from building strength are very different.

The workout structure of ‘ME squat, DE squat, ME bench, DE bench’ week and a bodybuilding split are NOT comparable in this context.

When you are pushing and pulling 4+ plates regularly with enough volume and intensity to stimulate growth in a conditioned physique (conditioned from years of adapting to similar stimulus) it is drastically different from focusing on 2-3 main lifts a week through 4 sessions NOT taken to failure.

22

The “everything once a week + train a weak muscle-group multiple times” philosophy X is using is practically the same thing you hear from CT… What are you talking about “CT, rarely seem to prescribe this for bodybuilding anymore” ?
If anything, then his bbing info has gotten a lot better recently (or at least he cleared quite a few things up, including the fact that all his routines are based on ramping your weights, not “sets across”).

Besides… You organize your training whichever way works best for you and your schedule…

23

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Buff Sax Dude wrote:
Professor X wrote:
How many of those guys work 9-10 hours a day doing jobs that require being as near to perfection as possible with every action made?

No clue.

Well, I know I do and my schedule of getting in and out some days in about 45min works for me. It gets me in the gym up to 6 days a week most weeks and I would say that the last 80 or so pounds gained since I started posting here show that it must be working. I don’t change things up for no reason when what I am doing is getting me where I need to be.[/quote]

Just to reinforce what I had already said - I wouldn’t expect you to change your routine if you are happy with your progress. Not you, not anyone; regardless of what Tate, Dante, CT or anyone else thinks is optimal frequency.

My original post asked if anyone trained this way because guys like Tate, Dante, CT (ie: authors with obvious in the trench experience) and the more successful T-Nation posters (you excluded) advocate > 1session/7days. That’s all.

The fact that you train a 1/7 routine but commented that increasing frequency on certain body parts lead to greater growth pushed me to ask my follow-up question. Your answer regarding scheduling speaks to me because I also work 9-10 billable hours per day (during “quiet season”) so I understand how a routine has to take other life obligations in account.

24

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
The “everything once a week + train a weak muscle-group multiple times” philosophy X is using is practically the same thing you hear from CT… What are you talking about “CT, rarely seem to prescribe this for bodybuilding anymore” ?
If anything, then his bbing info has gotten a lot better recently (or at least he cleared quite a few things up, including the fact that all his routines are based on ramping your weights, not “sets across”).

Besides… You organize your training whichever way works best for you and your schedule…
[/quote]

Well, according to CT’s locker room thread, if I understood correctly, muscles trained 1/7 are either (depending on how you interpret his writings):

i) Not growing at the same rate as are muscles subject to “higher frequency”
ii) On maintenance mode (ie: not really improving or deteriorating)
iii) Becoming slightly de-conditioned and “primed” for a specialization block

And, yes, I agree with your comment about your routine needed to adapt to other life obligations.

25

[quote]Buff Sax Dude wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
The “everything once a week + train a weak muscle-group multiple times” philosophy X is using is practically the same thing you hear from CT… What are you talking about “CT, rarely seem to prescribe this for bodybuilding anymore” ?
If anything, then his bbing info has gotten a lot better recently (or at least he cleared quite a few things up, including the fact that all his routines are based on ramping your weights, not “sets across”).

Besides… You organize your training whichever way works best for you and your schedule…

Well, according to CT’s locker room thread, if I understood correctly, muscles trained 1/7 are either (depending on how you interpret his writings):

i) Not growing at the same rate as are muscles subject to “higher frequency”
ii) On maintenance mode (ie: not really improving or deteriorating)
iii) Becoming slightly de-conditioned and “primed” for a specialization block

And, yes, I agree with your comment about your routine needed to adapt to other life obligations.[/quote]

There is no way on Earth any human being, let alone CT by himself, can write a passage so complex as it cover every possible way these words can be taken while also getting a simple point across.

In other words, people like you need to read less from these authors, not more. I could read that same passage and NOT form some hyperspecific conclusion from it that would make me start this thread. Why? Because anyone at a more advanced level already understands their body enough and has made enough progress to know what works for them.

You are looking for absolutes and there are none. So why keep looking for them?

26

[quote]Professor X wrote:
twilight wrote:
Hell, I don’t even have pix on a facebook page. Anyway, I was trying to offer friendly advice to the first guy, not get into a contest with you. I am not huge. I am much larger than I began. Also had abs on my 40th bday last week, so it does work for ME.

I’m glad you had abs at 40. That is very impressive.

However, this IS a bodybuilding forum so what works…is what actually got you somewhere in the ball park of looking like one of them.[/quote]

Trust me, I’m happy for this bb forum and people here who tell it straight up. I’m a training director at what most of us here would call a health club. I’ve one who has been lucky enough to make a great living at it. Funnies thing is all of the newer trainers I hire who consider me outdated because I don’t have people standing upside down on a swiss ball while juggling 7 bosus!

27

[quote]Professor X wrote:
You are looking for absolutes and there are none. So why keep looking for them?[/quote]

“True dat”, but seeing how the Olympia is only once a year, what else would we talk about?

28

One more thing

I asked an NPC level bodybuilder today about this, he said, that even when you do Chest/Arms/Back/Legs/Shoulders in one week, the other bodyparts do get trained more than once.

I.e

When you train back, your biceps get stimulation as well.

When you train chest, your triceps and shoulders get worked.

With Legs, well, with heavy squats/stiff-legs your back gets worked.

Soulders, your triceps get worked and your upper chest to a degree.

Arms, your chest gets worked if you do close-grip/any type of dip

29

even though i am new to this (3 years training) i have managed to gain close to 70lbs thus far, as others mentioned i don’t have a set split, i go by instinct and feel, hitting each body part once a week roughly, sometimes within 5-6 days, sometimes within an 8 day range. as mentioned at certain points i may double up a body part that i feel needs more attention, or double up a part i didn’t feel i properly crushed previously.

shoulders are not always Wednesday because perhaps my shoulders are still sore from whenever i hit chest, things can be modified by instinct and knowing when you are ready, at or near 100% for that body part, that said there are weeks where you may be tired but still kill the body part anyway…that is called WORK. however the longer you train the easier it is to understand the differences between recovery and being optimal vs aggravating a shoulder or elbow that would have done better with more rest.

same goes for reps and sets. a lot of folks who don’t train much ask "do you 3x8, 5x12, bla, bla, bla. this isn’t a perfect science, instinct plays a part in it. i usually do x amount of warm up sets 2-3 usually then several progressively heavier working sets 2-3, if i’m done i’m done, sometimes i’ll add a flushing set at the end depending upon mood and/or body part. rep range isn’t exact either, i generally have a goal number in mind but sometimes i’m short of it sometimes i surpass it. volume is adjusted per body part based on what has worked for me over the last few years. shit is not set in stone and adding new things here and there are key, but what works is what works for you. some people do better w/ more arm volume others w/ less, if you’re growing great, if not adjust. perhaps it’s the work load, perhaps it’s calories, maybe it’s rest or stress whatever. fix it accordingly.

entropy works provided it happens within a set of variables, a close system which you’ve designed. that’s not really entropy though is it. somewhere in between randomness and EXACT programs most people find their way…others just change programs every month or so and look the same year after year.

30

[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
Why don’t you try both and see which works best for you? A lot of this shit is trial and error. What worked for X may or may not work for you. Instead of asking for advice, why not seek it out in experience?[/quote]

Your advice is 100% accurate.

It really doesn’t matter what anyone else does to get results, but what we need to do to get results. But then what is the point of these forums? Why are you even here? Let’s face it, there isn’t a single question asked here that can be answered with 100% certainty. The reality is that the person asking needs to try it to see if it works for them.

What else are we supposed to talk about? The evolution of Kai’s posing routines? Contest results? If that is what we limited ourselves to then there would be almost zero traffic most of the year.

Out of curiosity, what do you consider worthy threads? I’m not even being a dick when I ask this. Contest results? Training Journals? Look back far enough in the forum database and every subject has already been discussed ad nauseum. Forums are a place for people to discuss topics they enjoy. If you don’t enjoy it… then… well…

31

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
One more thing

I asked an NPC level bodybuilder today about this, he said, that even when you do Chest/Arms/Back/Legs/Shoulders in one week, the other bodyparts do get trained more than once.

I.e

When you train back, your biceps get stimulation as well.

When you train chest, your triceps and shoulders get worked.

With Legs, well, with heavy squats/stiff-legs your back gets worked.

Soulders, your triceps get worked and your upper chest to a degree.

Arms, your chest gets worked if you do close-grip/any type of dip[/quote]

Good point also. That is why the order you train body parts is important as well. I generally will not be training back the day after biceps. I will not be training shoulders the day right after training chest. That is why logic is important here and not simply adhering to words on a piece of paper.

32

[quote]Buff Sax Dude wrote:
Davinci.v2 wrote:
Why don’t you try both and see which works best for you? A lot of this shit is trial and error. What worked for X may or may not work for you. Instead of asking for advice, why not seek it out in experience?

Your advice is 100% accurate.

It really doesn’t matter what anyone else does to get results, but what we need to do to get results. But then what is the point of these forums? Why are you even here? Let’s face it, there isn’t a single question asked here that can be answered with 100% certainty. The reality is that the person asking needs to try it to see if it works for them.

What else are we supposed to talk about? The evolution of Kai’s posing routines? Contest results? If that is what we limited ourselves to then there would be almost zero traffic most of the year.

Out of curiosity, what do you consider worthy threads? I’m not even being a dick when I ask this. Contest results? Training Journals? Look back far enough in the forum database and every subject has already been discussed ad nauseum. Forums are a place for people to discuss topics they enjoy. If you don’t enjoy it… then… well…[/quote]

Dude, stop whining. No one said your thread was useless. If it actually was, this many people would not have responded. Kleenex is in the back.

33

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Dude, stop whining. No one said your thread was useless. If it actually was, this many people would not have responded. Kleenex is in the back.[/quote]

Yeah - OK, I jumped the gun because it’s commonplace on this site, not necessarily on this thread, for people to pretend questions asked are beneath them. I suppose it’s a way for them to feel like they are part of the “in-crowd”.

  • “You thought that? How could someone even think something like that?”

But I digress.

34

Less posting, more eating, more training, more reading.

35

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Goodfellow wrote:
One more thing

I asked an NPC level bodybuilder today about this, he said, that even when you do Chest/Arms/Back/Legs/Shoulders in one week, the other bodyparts do get trained more than once.

I.e

When you train back, your biceps get stimulation as well.

When you train chest, your triceps and shoulders get worked.

With Legs, well, with heavy squats/stiff-legs your back gets worked.

Soulders, your triceps get worked and your upper chest to a degree.

Arms, your chest gets worked if you do close-grip/any type of dip

Good point also. That is why the order you train body parts is important as well. I generally will not be training back the day after biceps. I will not be training shoulders the day right after training chest. That is why logic is important here and not simply adhering to words on a piece of paper.[/quote]

I agree. A lot of people think that training a body part once a week means that that particular body part rests totally until the next training session. Not true - as Goodfellow and Professor X said, there is going to be a synergistic effect that carries over from day to day. Your arms aren’t gonna shut down totally in order to recover from a tough session. If they truly did then you wouldn’t be able to work another body part until they recovered.

It’s also a common misconception that training different body parts on separate days equals slower strength and development (which is why a lot of people think TBT or higher frequency is better).

Not only that, but training isolation exercises following the ‘bread and butter’ compound exercises can help you progress faster than if you used compounds alone on, say, a 3 X a week program. Isolation exercises aren’t useless: they just need to be used appropriately.

I’m not dissing higher frequency. Just pointing out that some perceived drawbacks of training muscle groups at a lower frequency aren’t really disadavantages at all…

36

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Less posting, more eating, more training, more reading.
[/quote]

Honestly, i think reading is one of the things a lot of posters here need to do less of.

Somehow it just seems to disagree with them… somehow making them less intelligent or something.

37

[quote]J-J wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Less posting, more eating, more training, more reading.

Honestly, i think reading is one of the things a lot of posters here need to do less of.

Somehow it just seems to disagree with them… somehow making them less intelligent or something.[/quote]

What I meant was basically that not everybody here actually needs to post something in the bodybuilding forum.
A lot of people would be better of shutting up and listening more.

You have a point with the reading of course, if we’re talking about internet articles anyway.

Maybe I should have typed it as “Less posting, more thinking”, but that could backfire the same way…

38

This is my routine exactley, I train everything quite a bit but only one or two lifts each day.Im in process od cutting back to 4-5 lifts a day.My theory on this is,If you do say a chest day and do Bench, DB bench, incline then dips.Your gonna be worn out by the time you get incline and dips.But if you do all these lifts while your fresh you will be able to lift more and not fatique as fast.

Day 1
Face Pulls 2x15
Hammer Row High 3x10
Incline Hammer press 3x8,10
Rear Flys 3x12
Leg Press 4x20
Good Morning 4x6
Squat 3x15 1x5
Day 2
Cable Row 4x10
T-Bar Row 3x10
DB Bench 4x6
Chins 3x Failure
Axe Curls
Skulls 4x10
Day 3
Lat Pull 3x10 wide, 2x10 Medium, 2x12 Narrow
DB Press 4x6
DB Shoulder press 3x10
Shrugs 3-4x10,12
Drag Curls 3x10
Press Down Variation
Day 4
Face Pulls, Pull Aparts 2x15
DB Rows 3x15
Flat Bench 3x8
Good Morning 2x15
Box Squat 4x6
Leg Press, Leg Curl 3x12
Day 5
Hammer Row Low 5x5
OHP Standing 10x10
Rack Pulls 3x10 straps 4x6
Chins 3x Failure
Flys front,rear 3x12
Arms
Close Grip Bench 4x6
French Press 3x10
Dips 3x10
BB Curl 3x10
Seated Hammer Curl 3x8

Train Calves
Low reps Standing
High Reps Seated

39

The problem is, as an author, you need to come across with a direct opinion to grab a reader’s attention and the more people that read their stuff the bigger their egos will get, so they become even more direct and opinionated. It’s a vicious circle, and the inexperienced having read these articles end up digesting it as gospel - because thats how it comes across and the reader doesn’t know any better.

Professor X said it best:
You are looking for absolutes and there are none. So why keep looking for them?

The answer to that question is because too many people believe in teaching others that these absolutes exist.

Eating and progressive overload are the only absolutes - however, it is a fallacy to think that either of the two can be broken down into specific protocol and STILL be an absolute - once they are broken down into specifics they become an educated guess and nothing more.

40

Isnt there a thread on TCell about training a bodypart twice a week, I believe MODOK started it, he and others choose to train like that, its a good read