T Nation

Multivitamin


#1

Can someone please give me a vitamin that is affordable yet effective and where to get it from.

Also, I have run out of my magnesium glycinate bottle and will be buying more magnesium. What kind is recommended? I used to take glycinate because Defranco recommends it. But over here I read aspartate is the best. So which one is it?


#2

Doesn’t make much if any difference on the magnesium between any of the organic forms, whether glycinate, aspartate, citrate or whatever.

A genuinely good multivitamin cannot be made cheaply.

If you are determined to buy cheap, then you would want to get one with the least problems caused by being cheap. This would mean:

  1. Don’t get one with a dl-alpha-tocopherol (one of the forms of Vitamin E.)

  2. As it will have some Vitamin E, but only in the cheap alpha form which really should not be taken alone, get one with as little d-alpha-tocopherol as possible.

  3. Preferably don’t get one with iron

  4. Preferably don’t get one with copper though that doesn’t have to be a deal-breaker (though if you have copper overload, which some percentage of people do but generally do not know it, then it would be adding to the problem.)

  5. If the minerals are mostly oxides then it’s especially crappy but if you are going to cheap out that may be all you can get.


#3

Superfood ----->


#4

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Doesn’t make much if any difference on the magnesium between any of the organic forms, whether glycinate, aspartate, citrate or whatever.

A genuinely good multivitamin cannot be made cheaply.

If you are determined to buy cheap, then you would want to get one with the least problems caused by being cheap. This would mean:

  1. Don’t get one with a dl-alpha-tocopherol (one of the forms of Vitamin E.)

  2. As it will have some Vitamin E, but only in the cheap alpha form which really should not be taken alone, get one with as little d-alpha-tocopherol as possible.

  3. Preferably don’t get one with iron

  4. Preferably don’t get one with copper though that doesn’t have to be a deal-breaker (though if you have copper overload, which some percentage of people do but generally do not know it, then it would be adding to the problem.)

  5. If the minerals are mostly oxides then it’s especially crappy but if you are going to cheap out that may be all you can get.[/quote]

Hey man, thanks a lot for the detailed response. Your comment about dl-alpha has got me a little worried. Why should I not be looking to get one with Vitamin E (dl-alpha tocopherol)? I actually take that as a separate supplement post workout. Is something wrong? I have been taking this as a supplement for over a year now!


#5

Vitamin E exists in nature in only the d form (there is no dl form with natural Vitamin E) and as a mix of isomers of which alpha is not the most important.

Consuming a supplement that provides only alpha-tocopherol, in large amounts anyway, results in displacing the more important gamma-tocopherol acquired from your diet. Doing so may cause more harm (not great harm, at least not in the short term) than good.

As for the dl synthetic form, there is one thing to be said for it: it is CHEAP.

Unless the supplement manufacturer is woefully ignorant, he knows that the portion of his product – most of it it – that is the non-d form is worse than useless, but he does not care: it gets to count as Vitamin E on the label, and hey it is CHEAP!

If you want a quality Vitamin E supplement, get one that has only natural Vitamin E (the d form) and get one at the least with mixed tocopherols. For the best Vitamin E supplement, you’d want one with a high gamma tocopherol content, with more of that than any other isomer.

It will not be cheap. (Just the way it is.)


#6

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Vitamin E exists in nature in only the d form (there is no dl form with natural Vitamin E) and as a mix of isomers of which alpha is not the most important.

Consuming a supplement that provides only alpha-tocopherol, in large amounts anyway, results in displacing the more important gamma-tocopherol acquired from your diet. Doing so may cause more harm (not great harm, at least not in the short term) than good.

As for the dl synthetic form, there is one thing to be said for it: it is CHEAP.

Unless the supplement manufacturer is woefully ignorant, he knows that the portion of his product – most of it it – that is the non-d form is worse than useless, but he does not care: it gets to count as Vitamin E on the label, and hey it is CHEAP!

If you want a quality Vitamin E supplement, get one that has only natural Vitamin E (the d form) and get one at the least with mixed tocopherols. For the best Vitamin E supplement, you’d want one with a high gamma tocopherol content, with more of that than any other isomer.

It will not be cheap. (Just the way it is.)[/quote]

I am totally confused. So the specific Vitamin E I take is below. Should I discontinue or what?

GNC Natural E 400
100% Natural Mixed tocopherols

At the back in supplement facts, it says:
Vitamin E (as d-alpha Tocopherol) 400 IU 1333%


#7

That says d, not dl.

Above you had said it was a dl product.

The above is in principle OK.


#8

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Vitamin E exists in nature in only the d form (there is no dl form with natural Vitamin E) and as a mix of isomers of which alpha is not the most important.

Consuming a supplement that provides only alpha-tocopherol, in large amounts anyway, results in displacing the more important gamma-tocopherol acquired from your diet. Doing so may cause more harm (not great harm, at least not in the short term) than good.

As for the dl synthetic form, there is one thing to be said for it: it is CHEAP.

Unless the supplement manufacturer is woefully ignorant, he knows that the portion of his product – most of it it – that is the non-d form is worse than useless, but he does not care: it gets to count as Vitamin E on the label, and hey it is CHEAP!

If you want a quality Vitamin E supplement, get one that has only natural Vitamin E (the d form) and get one at the least with mixed tocopherols. For the best Vitamin E supplement, you’d want one with a high gamma tocopherol content, with more of that than any other isomer.

It will not be cheap. (Just the way it is.)[/quote]

Actually Bill, I would recommend that someone get a tocopherol and tocotrienol supplement - The amount of tocotrienols would be the real deciding factor for me.

And these mixed tocopherol/tocotrienol vitamin E supplements are often pricey. For me, the cost-benefit issue just doesn’t add up.

I think CLA is just as potent of an anti inflammatory agent and overall supplement as vitamin E is. And its a heck of a lot cheaper.

Either way, if someone is hell bent on using some sort of vitamin/mineral supplement, the ones I would pay particular attention to would be a ZMA supplement, and Vitamin D3.


#9

Cool. Thanks

Wise guy - I also take vitamin D, just the normal kind from CVS. I don’t take ZMA because it becomes too expensive. I take Magnesium Glycinate and Zinc separately.

Other than these I take B50 complex in the morning and Vitamin C 1000 in the morning and one post workout.

I also take fish oil- 2 pills, 3 times/day.

I really researched a lot before coming to this list of vitamins/minerals to take. I wanted it to be as complete as possible.


#10

[quote]Fluid wrote:
Cool. Thanks

Wise guy - I also take vitamin D, just the normal kind from CVS. I don’t take ZMA because it becomes too expensive. I take Magnesium Glycinate and Zinc separately.

Other than these I take B50 complex in the morning and Vitamin C 1000 in the morning and one post workout.

I also take fish oil- 2 pills, 3 times/day.

I really researched a lot before coming to this list of vitamins/minerals to take. I wanted it to be as complete as possible. [/quote]

Eh ZMA is like 15 bucks dude. Not that pricey. If you want you can scrimp on the dose and pop em 5 days a week to cut down on price, that will put it at under 10 bucks a month - If you cannot afford that man you need a job LOL.

The Vitamin D at CVS is useless.

You need Vitamin D3 softgels. I like NOW brand, Carlsons, you can pick these up at Iherb.

Fish Oil, I’m going to assume you probably use some bogus store bought brand too. Again pointless. You need high DHA fish oil.


#11

[quote]Wise Guy wrote:

Fish Oil, I’m going to assume you probably use some bogus store bought brand too. Again pointless. You need high DHA fish oil. [/quote]

Why is it pointless? Why are you assuming low DHA?

Some fish oil is better than none at all, even the cheap stuff has some benefits. Of course if you have money go for Flameout.


#12

Well I am in college and do have a job. I spend quite a lot on supplements, plus martial arts gym fees, going out etc so it all adds up to quite a lot. I have about 2 tubs of Grow! Whey/month+creatine+glutamine+vitamins+weight gainer. There is a lot.

Anyways, once I graduate I will most definitely switch to Flameout. Right now I buy another fish oil. I get like 1000 soft gels for $25. That deal is hard to beat. I’m sure it is low quality, but as redgladiator said, some is better than nothing.

Is the vitamin D from nature made useless? Please tell me so that I can switch from that. I really only want to take supplements that are not a waste and actually benefit me.


#13

[quote]Fluid wrote:
Well I am in college and do have a job. I spend quite a lot on supplements, plus martial arts gym fees, going out etc so it all adds up to quite a lot. I have about 2 tubs of Grow! Whey/month+creatine+glutamine+vitamins+weight gainer. There is a lot.[/quote]

If money is that tight, why are you wasting it on glutamine and weight gainer?

As long as you’re consuming carbs and enough protein, you don’t need glutamine.

As for weight gainers, you can likely make your own using the Grow! Whey you have for far less money and it will be better for you.


#14

OP why are you taking glutamine?
Read this thread:

IMO glutamine is too expensive for what it is, there is a lot of debate of the effectiveness of it, it seems to be pointless for bodybuilding purposes(it has other benifits other than for bodybuilding). Save your self some money and ditch it.(at least until you graduate)


#15

[quote]redgladiator wrote:
Wise Guy wrote:

Fish Oil, I’m going to assume you probably use some bogus store bought brand too. Again pointless. You need high DHA fish oil.

Why is it pointless? Why are you assuming low DHA?

Some fish oil is better than none at all, even the cheap stuff has some benefits. Of course if you have money go for Flameout.[/quote]

I’m assuming low DHA because most fish oil sold at the store is low DHA, and I’m also assuming the original poster probably doesn’t know what he is purchasing.

I can show you some interesting studies on EPA showing it really isn’t much at all and can actually be counterproductive when taken in higher doses

You can only take so much Omega 3 fatty acids before you will actually have a an overabundance of them. And since you only have an allotted amount, its best to make it mostly DHA. Not this 180 EPA 120 DHA stuff they sell at the store. I would rather eat real fish before I would take that.

And yes I am familiar that real fish have more EPA than DHA, but at least with real fish i would be getting a myriad of other health benefits too(protein, calcium, vitamin A and D, ALA, amino acids, etc…)


#16

Redgladiator, thanks for the link. Very interesting. I don’t take glutamine for muscle purposes, I only take it for recovery. I lift 4 times/week and do martial arts 2 times/week. Recovery becomes an important factor for me. Many top coaches recommend it for recovery, plus reading the link you just gave it seems as though it is good for preventing overtraining - which I am prone to with all that I do. I don’t know if it is mental or not, but I definitely feel good the next morning when I take Glutamine and Magnesium post workout. Those two work wonders for me.

Well one tub of weight gainer lasts me two months, so it is fine. I take it because I used it as my peri nutrition. It is high on carbs from sugars, and also has whey protein. It’s my cheap alternative to Surge.

Can someone comment on the Vitamin D. So is the vitamin D supplement from Nature Made not worth buying?


#17

You need Vitamin D3, in a softgel.

If it does not fit above criteria, discard.

And D3 needs to be refrigerated.

you will need at least 6000IU a day


#18

The only D3 products that need to be refrigerated are bulk liquids.

And while 6000 per day is fine, it is going past what is known to say one “needs at least” that amount. For example if a product is 5000 IU per capsule one need not reject it or assume two capsules must be taken per day.


#19

[quote]Wise Guy wrote:
redgladiator wrote:
Wise Guy wrote:

Fish Oil, I’m going to assume you probably use some bogus store bought brand too. Again pointless. You need high DHA fish oil.

Why is it pointless? Why are you assuming low DHA?

Some fish oil is better than none at all, even the cheap stuff has some benefits. Of course if you have money go for Flameout.

I’m assuming low DHA because most fish oil sold at the store is low DHA, and I’m also assuming the original poster probably doesn’t know what he is purchasing.

I can show you some interesting studies on EPA showing it really isn’t much at all and can actually be counterproductive when taken in higher doses

You can only take so much Omega 3 fatty acids before you will actually have a an overabundance of them. And since you only have an allotted amount, its best to make it mostly DHA. Not this 180 EPA 120 DHA stuff they sell at the store. I would rather eat real fish before I would take that.

And yes I am familiar that real fish have more EPA than DHA, but at least with real fish i would be getting a myriad of other health benefits too(protein, calcium, vitamin A and D, ALA, amino acids, etc…)

[/quote]

DHA>EPA and it is also more expensive. It is very difficult to eat too much omega3 without supplementation. Some people want omega3 daily, eating fish daily may not be suitable for everyone.

Are you actually recommending the OP stop taking any fish oil? He mostly likey cannot afford high DHA rich fish oil at the moment.


#20

[quote]Wise Guy wrote:
You need Vitamin D3, in a softgel.

If it does not fit above criteria, discard.

And D3 needs to be refrigerated.

you will need at least 6000IU a day [/quote]

I currently take 4000 IU a day D3, of the white tic tac looking pills.
What is the difference with the softgels?