T Nation

Multiple Main Lifts on Single Day


#1

Jim (or anyone else),

I've been running 5/3/1 for roughly a year and loving it. I'm a BBer at heart and like the idea of Heavy focused days, hypertrophy days, DUP methods etc.

As such, what are your thoughts on combining main lifts on a single day... think 531 meets PHAT/PHULL (not sure if your familiar)

You might call me an idiot for having too many areas of focus at once, but here's my thinking...

Upper Power
531 Bench
531 Press
Lower Power
531 Squat
531 Deads
Upper Hypertrophy
Typical BB style upper day
Lower Hypertrophy
Typical BB style lower day

Would this be feasible? I like hitting bodyparts 2x a week, and I enjoyed BBB 3month challenge, but I want to spice things up.


#2

This is all in one day? Knock yourself out.


#3

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
This is all in one day? Knock yourself out.[/quote]

I belive he means :

Day 1 - upper power
Day 2 - lower power
rest
Day 4 - upper hypertrophy
Day 5 - lower hypertrophy


#4

[quote]Raubtier wrote:

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
This is all in one day? Knock yourself out.[/quote]

I belive he means :

Day 1 - upper power
Day 2 - lower power
rest
Day 4 - upper hypertrophy
Day 5 - lower hypertrophy[/quote]

^^^ Correct. It would be 4 total days.


#5

[quote]str1ation wrote:
Jim (or anyone else),

I’ve been running 5/3/1 for roughly a year and loving it. I’m a BBer at heart and like the idea of Heavy focused days, hypertrophy days, DUP methods etc.

As such, what are your thoughts on combining main lifts on a single day… think 531 meets PHAT/PHULL (not sure if your familiar)

You might call me an idiot for having too many areas of focus at once, but here’s my thinking…

Upper Power
531 Bench
531 Press
Lower Power
531 Squat
531 Deads
Upper Hypertrophy
Typical BB style upper day
Lower Hypertrophy
Typical BB style lower day

Would this be feasible? I like hitting bodyparts 2x a week, and I enjoyed BBB 3month challenge, but I want to spice things up.[/quote]

When you say bodyparts do you mean each lift 2x a week? If that is the case then after your done with your 3 sets of your 531 lift do the opposite lift for the 3-5 sets of volume work.


#6

I don’t mean necessarily the same lifts twice a week. But 2 days of the week focused on Power/Strength, and 2Days focused on Volume/Hypertrophy.

As stated, not sure if you are familiar with PHAT or PHULL concepts… but its a form of non-linear prioritization. I’d like to have 2 days focused on pure strength (IE 531 Days) and then 2 days focused on more traditional bodybuilding style workouts. To prevent being burnt out too quickly I am even considering ZERO assistance work on the two power days.

Day1 - Upper Power
531 Bench
531 OHP

Day2 - Lower Power
531 Squat
531 Deads

Day 3 - Upper Hyper
Upper day consisting of various “pump” style training with some isolation exercises throne in.

Day 4 - Lower Hyper
Generally the same as day 3

I think this would make for some good results… but my original question to Jim was on the feasibility of the first 2 days. I guess this would even apply to if someone had 2 training days a week, I know you can cycle the lifts each week, but would it be a good idea to bang out all 4 531 lifts in 2 days?


#7

Try out your idea and let us know if your approach works for you. I’m curious how deadlifting and squatting 531 on the same day works out for you over time.


#8

I’m not trying to avoid burnout… im simply trying to leverage the 5/3/1 periodization progression for my main lifts on my POWER days, rather than just simply doing 5x5 for HEAVY like the traditional routines call for.

It’s just an upper lower split rotating heavy and light days… only different being that i leverage 531 progressions for my heavy days.


#9

[quote]str1ation wrote:
I’m not trying to avoid burnout… im simply trying to leverage the 5/3/1 periodization progression for my main lifts on my POWER days, rather than just simply doing 5x5 for HEAVY like the traditional routines call for.

It’s just an upper lower split rotating heavy and light days… only different being that i leverage 531 progressions for my heavy days.[/quote]

You’re going to debate everyone who has a differing opinion so just save yourself the trouble and try it. You’re legs won’t fall off and whatever happens you’ll learn something.


#10

Noted. Will do.

FYI there is no debating. Jim was under the impression I was trying to complete all of this on a single day so I was clarifying. Above poster was under the impression I was trying to stop burning out so clarified.

thx.


#11

Why not do something like this?
Day 1- 531 squat / bench
Day 2- upper body hypertrophy (or full body)
Day 3- rest
Day 4- 531 dead lift / press
Day 5 - Lower body hypertrophy (or full body)


#12

[quote]turtletaub wrote:
Why not do something like this?
Day 1- 531 squat / bench
Day 2- upper body hypertrophy (or full body)
Day 3- rest
Day 4- 531 dead lift / press
Day 5 - Lower body hypertrophy (or full body)

[/quote]

I think this template would be more optimal long term.

Squat/dl on the same day will catch up with you fast.


#13

There are probably MUCH better ways to do this but you’ll have to sort through this stuff yourself and experiment. I’m not an expert on bodybuiding so you’ll have to ask someone who is. I assume you have indicators present in your training - if not, I highly recommend you do. I’d also switch the movements to a full body on the 5/3/1 days.


#14
  1. I would not do the same lifts twice per week. This would then be something LOOSELY resembling Westside but with 5/3/1 and rep work as the two days. Ex: day 1: Bench/ 5-3-1 … day two dumbbells for reps. Is this what you mean?

  2. I admit i have tried things like this in the past and the key for me making it work is to start WAYYYY light to build work capacity and to get in the habit of setting records - especially when doing your main deadlifting and main squatting in the same workout. But to do this you need to check the ego and be real patient to start as light as I would have to to complete the workout in one piece - which is what you must do following the program as written too. Either way patience and commitment rule.

Why are you n such a hurry?

For me to start something like this with even 90% of my real max would wipe me out. Anyone that pushes serious weight understands you cannot do things like this unless it is light - the neurological toll is too expensive. The only way some people learn though is to run themselves into the ground.


#15

[quote]Rave2.0 wrote:

  1. I would not do the same lifts twice per week. This would then be something LOOSELY resembling Westside but with 5/3/1 and rep work as the two days. Ex: day 1: Bench/ 5-3-1 … day two dumbbells for reps. Is this what you mean?

  2. I admit i have tried things like this in the past and the key for me making it work is to start WAYYYY light to build work capacity and to get in the habit of setting records - especially when doing your main deadlifting and main squatting in the same workout. But to do this you need to check the ego and be real patient to start as light as I would have to to complete the workout in one piece - which is what you must do following the program as written too. Either way patience and commitment rule.

Why are you n such a hurry?

For me to start something like this with even 90% of my real max would wipe me out. Anyone that pushes serious weight understands you cannot do things like this unless it is light - the neurological toll is too expensive. The only way some people learn though is to run themselves into the ground.

[/quote]

I’m not in a hurry by any means, i’ve been using forms of 5/3/1 for over a year. You are right, I wouldn’t be doing the same lifts twice a week only once. My first two days would be powerlifting focus with the main lifts of 531, the later 2 days would be bodybuilder focused with dumb bells, machines, higher volume etc.

All I am really doing is an upper/lower template with the first days focused on power/strength and the later 2 focused on hypertrophy/bodybuilding. The only real difference is that on the first 2 days I am using the 531 progression scheme. Google PHUL, PHAT, etc to understand what I mean.