T Nation

MPB: Gene from Mother's Side?

[quote]Cortes wrote:
It’s not true in all cases. My maternal grandfather was balding from the time he was about 5 years old (he had a “receding” hairline from that time. I’m only being slightly facetious). My Paternal grandfather and father have the same hairline that I do, widow’s peak dark brown hair that went gray over time, and neither ever went the slightest bit bald. I’m now 37 and show not the slightest sign of going bald, when I was told for years that, because of the maternal gene involved in MPD and my grandfather’s very shiny pate, I was almost certain to. Indeed, I never even really worried about it, and even after boatloads of steroids, I have not shown even the slightest sign of thinning hair.

Not saying my case is normal, but cases like mine do exist, so it’s not exactly the kiss of death if your mother’s father looks like Kojak. [/quote]

I’m in the exact same boat, except a.) 33 years old b.) blond widows peak c.) no steroids. My grandfather on my mom’s side and all of my uncles were complete cue balls by the age of 20. There is hope.

The only preventative thing I use is Nizoral 2% shampoo 3x weekly

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]Gcortese wrote:
No seriously I just wanted a way to know if it was going to be on its way or not, not like I give a fuck anyway, first sign of getting baldness I will shave it all off!
[/quote]

Yeah, you totally don’t give a shit. You give such little shit about going bald that you didn’t make a thread about it when a much quicker google search would have given you the answer you didn’t want to hear.
Have fun not giving a shit about going bald.[/quote]

Did you miss the part where I said that I actually want to rock the chrome dome look? My only actually worry is being muscular enough, since everything looks better being more muscular and having a tan. Just trying to prevent further balding till I get muscular enough!

[quote]PimpBot5000 wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
It’s not true in all cases. My maternal grandfather was balding from the time he was about 5 years old (he had a “receding” hairline from that time. I’m only being slightly facetious). My Paternal grandfather and father have the same hairline that I do, widow’s peak dark brown hair that went gray over time, and neither ever went the slightest bit bald. I’m now 37 and show not the slightest sign of going bald, when I was told for years that, because of the maternal gene involved in MPD and my grandfather’s very shiny pate, I was almost certain to. Indeed, I never even really worried about it, and even after boatloads of steroids, I have not shown even the slightest sign of thinning hair.

Not saying my case is normal, but cases like mine do exist, so it’s not exactly the kiss of death if your mother’s father looks like Kojak. [/quote]

I’m in the exact same boat, except a.) 33 years old b.) blond widows peak c.) no steroids. My grandfather on my mom’s side and all of my uncles were complete cue balls by the age of 20. There is hope.

The only preventative thing I use is Nizoral 2% shampoo 3x weekly
[/quote]

Also using Nizoral and Alpecin and swear down hair looks and feels thicker than a week ago.

Nizoral is legit shit.

Most guys don’t use it properly though and probably ditch it because they aren’t seeing instant results (and many need to keep in mind with ANY hair loss treatment, hair grows/terminates in VERY long cycles).

It’s recommended to massage and then leave on the scalp for at least 15 minutes for effect. One study on japanese men showed excellent results with leaving it on overnight.

Obviously you want to strike a balance between effectiveness and not drying out your scalp too much because it can be harsh.

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Nizoral is legit shit.

Most guys don’t use it properly though and probably ditch it because they aren’t seeing instant results (and many need to keep in mind with ANY hair loss treatment, hair grows/terminates in VERY long cycles).

It’s recommended to massage and then leave on the scalp for at least 15 minutes for effect. One study on japanese men showed excellent results with leaving it on overnight.

Obviously you want to strike a balance between effectiveness and not drying out your scalp too much because it can be harsh.[/quote]

Yep. Ketoconozole 2% - the active ingredient in Nizoral - is both a DHT inhibitor and an anti-inflammatory. DHT binding and scalp dermatitis are two precursors to balding.

The stuff flat out works, it’s cheap, it’s widely available, and it’s not systemic like Finasteride (unless you ingest it - KCZ is a potent anti-androgen)

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Yeah its bs that its only your mothers side, it can be inherited from either parent and it can skip generations.

Also, there is an emerging theory that an increasing amount of white males are predisposed to MPB. Something like 75% of males experience some form of recession and/or thinning by their 40s, suggesting MPB may not be a “defect” as such, but rather just varying levels of genetic sensitivity to androgens in the scalp.

Anyway if you follow the latest research, better treatments aren’t far off, another 2-3 years at the most. Theres also a lot you can do to slow it down or halt it completely, some even experience regrowth.

There is also a lot you can do with current treatments (yes even without finasteride, which i would not touch with a 10 foot pole) to slow down or halt MPB in its tracks. This site here is a fairly good resource for those just now reading into treatment: http://www.follacure.com/

You could even purchase these forthcoming treatments that are being researched from chinese suppliers, as many on hair loss sites do. However the problem there is: cost, reliability, and most of all finding a formula that works.

Personally I think a slight amount of recession is a good look for most dudes, it makes you look a bit more mature/masculine. That said, if its getting to the point where its obvious you are balding, just fucking shave it off and get a tan. You don’t want to be one of those pathetic comb over retards.[/quote]

could you site your source on the 'not getting it from your mother? last time i read about it it was pretty much conclusive that it was carried on the X chromosome.

if that is indeed the case, it has to come from your mother.

you cant get an X chromosome from your father and be a male - in the VAST majority of cases, at least. If you get an x and y from your father, you end up a female with trisomy - XYX.

you could have chromosome breakage and cross attachment between parental chromosomes. But if I remember back to college, that is one freaky rare and usually has other issues.

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Nizoral is legit shit.

Most guys don’t use it properly though and probably ditch it because they aren’t seeing instant results (and many need to keep in mind with ANY hair loss treatment, hair grows/terminates in VERY long cycles).

It’s recommended to massage and then leave on the scalp for at least 15 minutes for effect. One study on japanese men showed excellent results with leaving it on overnight.

Obviously you want to strike a balance between effectiveness and not drying out your scalp too much because it can be harsh.[/quote]

I tried Nizoral for about 4 weeks but had to stop that also because it made my scalp super dry and irritated. I was having the worst dandruff which normally I have none of.

Do you know if you can buy the active ingredient stand alone ? I’m thinking that might work for me …

[quote]Da Man reloaded wrote:

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Yeah its bs that its only your mothers side, it can be inherited from either parent and it can skip generations.

Also, there is an emerging theory that an increasing amount of white males are predisposed to MPB. Something like 75% of males experience some form of recession and/or thinning by their 40s, suggesting MPB may not be a “defect” as such, but rather just varying levels of genetic sensitivity to androgens in the scalp.

Anyway if you follow the latest research, better treatments aren’t far off, another 2-3 years at the most. Theres also a lot you can do to slow it down or halt it completely, some even experience regrowth.

There is also a lot you can do with current treatments (yes even without finasteride, which i would not touch with a 10 foot pole) to slow down or halt MPB in its tracks. This site here is a fairly good resource for those just now reading into treatment: http://www.follacure.com/

You could even purchase these forthcoming treatments that are being researched from chinese suppliers, as many on hair loss sites do. However the problem there is: cost, reliability, and most of all finding a formula that works.

Personally I think a slight amount of recession is a good look for most dudes, it makes you look a bit more mature/masculine. That said, if its getting to the point where its obvious you are balding, just fucking shave it off and get a tan. You don’t want to be one of those pathetic comb over retards.[/quote]

could you site your source on the 'not getting it from your mother? last time i read about it it was pretty much conclusive that it was carried on the X chromosome.

if that is indeed the case, it has to come from your mother.

you cant get an X chromosome from your father and be a male - in the VAST majority of cases, at least. If you get an x and y from your father, you end up a female with trisomy - XYX.

you could have chromosome breakage and cross attachment between parental chromosomes. But if I remember back to college, that is one freaky rare and usually has other issues.[/quote]

this, so if your mother’s father is bald you have a 50% or more chance of carrying the gene. It will also be dependent on a few other factors whether you actually develop it or not

[quote]Da Man reloaded wrote:
could you site your source on the 'not getting it from your mother? last time i read about it it was pretty much conclusive that it was carried on the X chromosome.

if that is indeed the case, it has to come from your mother.

you cant get an X chromosome from your father and be a male - in the VAST majority of cases, at least. If you get an x and y from your father, you end up a female with trisomy - XYX.
[/quote]

Mostly correct if it’s from the X chromosome except that last part. XXY is Klinefelter’s syndrome. As long as you have the SRY part of a Y chromosome you become a man.

[quote]Da Man reloaded wrote:

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Yeah its bs that its only your mothers side, it can be inherited from either parent and it can skip generations.

Also, there is an emerging theory that an increasing amount of white males are predisposed to MPB. Something like 75% of males experience some form of recession and/or thinning by their 40s, suggesting MPB may not be a “defect” as such, but rather just varying levels of genetic sensitivity to androgens in the scalp.

Anyway if you follow the latest research, better treatments aren’t far off, another 2-3 years at the most. Theres also a lot you can do to slow it down or halt it completely, some even experience regrowth.

There is also a lot you can do with current treatments (yes even without finasteride, which i would not touch with a 10 foot pole) to slow down or halt MPB in its tracks. This site here is a fairly good resource for those just now reading into treatment: http://www.follacure.com/

You could even purchase these forthcoming treatments that are being researched from chinese suppliers, as many on hair loss sites do. However the problem there is: cost, reliability, and most of all finding a formula that works.

Personally I think a slight amount of recession is a good look for most dudes, it makes you look a bit more mature/masculine. That said, if its getting to the point where its obvious you are balding, just fucking shave it off and get a tan. You don’t want to be one of those pathetic comb over retards.[/quote]

could you site your source on the 'not getting it from your mother? last time i read about it it was pretty much conclusive that it was carried on the X chromosome.

if that is indeed the case, it has to come from your mother.

you cant get an X chromosome from your father and be a male - in the VAST majority of cases, at least. If you get an x and y from your father, you end up a female with trisomy - XYX.

you could have chromosome breakage and cross attachment between parental chromosomes. But if I remember back to college, that is one freaky rare and usually has other issues.[/quote]

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/hair-loss-news/article245.php

[quote]kakno wrote:

[quote]Da Man reloaded wrote:
could you site your source on the 'not getting it from your mother? last time i read about it it was pretty much conclusive that it was carried on the X chromosome.

if that is indeed the case, it has to come from your mother.

you cant get an X chromosome from your father and be a male - in the VAST majority of cases, at least. If you get an x and y from your father, you end up a female with trisomy - XYX.
[/quote]

Mostly correct if it’s from the X chromosome except that last part. XXY is Klinefelter’s syndrome. As long as you have the SRY part of a Y chromosome you become a man.[/quote]

no shit? completely did not know that. now i gots to read.

[quote]tmay11 wrote:

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Nizoral is legit shit.

Most guys don’t use it properly though and probably ditch it because they aren’t seeing instant results (and many need to keep in mind with ANY hair loss treatment, hair grows/terminates in VERY long cycles).

It’s recommended to massage and then leave on the scalp for at least 15 minutes for effect. One study on japanese men showed excellent results with leaving it on overnight.

Obviously you want to strike a balance between effectiveness and not drying out your scalp too much because it can be harsh.[/quote]

I tried Nizoral for about 4 weeks but had to stop that also because it made my scalp super dry and irritated. I was having the worst dandruff which normally I have none of.

Do you know if you can buy the active ingredient stand alone ? I’m thinking that might work for me …
[/quote]

you could try ketoconazole creams or lotions, or even make your own with a different vehicle (oils, alcohols etc)

However it could be the keto itself that is causing your scalp dryness and irritation. It’s an extremely potent anti dandruff treatment, so yeah its rather good at cleansing the scalp, too good for some people as you have experienced.

[quote]Da Man reloaded wrote:

[quote]kakno wrote:

[quote]Da Man reloaded wrote:
could you site your source on the 'not getting it from your mother? last time i read about it it was pretty much conclusive that it was carried on the X chromosome.

if that is indeed the case, it has to come from your mother.

you cant get an X chromosome from your father and be a male - in the VAST majority of cases, at least. If you get an x and y from your father, you end up a female with trisomy - XYX.
[/quote]

Mostly correct if it’s from the X chromosome except that last part. XXY is Klinefelter’s syndrome. As long as you have the SRY part of a Y chromosome you become a man.[/quote]

no shit? completely did not know that. now i gots to read.[/quote]

I would focus more on you’re own head and less on genetic chances… If you lose a large density of hair thickness, thinning at the crown or severe hairline recision those are all direct signs… Again the easiest and most accurate way is a quick check by a Derm, they check for miniaturization before its visible to the naked eye, or in other words before its in a more obvious and progressive stage.

Nizoral and Rogaine help with hair thickness but the only known medication to halt further balding pattern loss is Fin. That being said there are many alternative methods out there without meds needed but its all completely unique to the person themselve, amount of loss and rate of loss, etc…

I had dealt with some scalp psoriasis for a bit of time that caused patchy hair loss when it was more severe, and TE which from stress induced shock from anxiety, both were temporary hairloss problems but made me vigilant to make sure I prevent going bald as much as possible… I don’t look good without hair lol

I tried using rogaine as well and quit because of the sides. I used it almost entirely on the front of my scalp for hairline. I shed a shit ton of hair relatively quick (pretty scary when it actually hits). I literally didn’t want to take showers because I was losing so much. It was most shocking because, other than some slight recession (more than likely just a maturing hairline), I showed no signs of balding when I started. I wanted to use it as a preventative (very vain I know), as I always had a bit of a high hairline (runs on moms side). Anyhow, I could tell it was working because of the shedding and I could see terminal hairs popping up like crazy. BUT…I started haivng serious sexual side effects. It wasn’t lack of desire, it was the inability to get a full erection. Orgasming was basically non-existent - sperm volume was unbelievably low (noticeable). By this time, I had been on it for around 4 months and was scared shitless…I thought I was permanently fucked…bald and limp dicked.

I got off of it and within a few months the hair was coming back and I think it is entirely back now (or atleast 90% of it). I now use Nioxin’s system as well as an Aveda product that you rub in after showers (all natural). I’m also mega dosing resveratrol and curcumin - some research shows this COULD possibly help. Who really knows though.

Anyhow, sorry about the lengthy post…I wanted to give my personal story about rogaine to encourage people to think twice about just walking in to a wal-mart, buying it, and using it. It is a POWERFUL DRUG. I’m also not the first to have serious sexual issues while on it…several forums have had men reporting similar stuff- some still haven’t recovered reportedly. Makes one wonder…is it just finasteride causing all these sexual effects or the rogaine as well? Seems like rogaine could be flying under the radar on that one. It’s effects are also systemic and not local…mayn men don’t realize this (I didn’t).

Moral of the story:

  1. Be careful with rogaine/ finasteride
  2. Enjoy what you have. Many young white males think they have a severe recesion working when it is nothing more than their teen hairline maturing. For many, it will stop. Get checked by a derm to confirm.
  3. Explore natural shampoos and methods and, if it gets bad enough, consider hair transplantation (although this is risky as well - but atleast it is just cosmetically risking and not life/ sex threatening).

Forgot to mention that, in addition to my hair recovering, my dick did as well. Can’t believe I left out the most relieving aspect of my story…

[quote]Houston07 wrote:
I tried using rogaine as well and quit because of the sides. I used it almost entirely on the front of my scalp for hairline. I shed a shit ton of hair relatively quick (pretty scary when it actually hits). I literally didn’t want to take showers because I was losing so much. It was most shocking because, other than some slight recession (more than likely just a maturing hairline), I showed no signs of balding when I started. I wanted to use it as a preventative (very vain I know), as I always had a bit of a high hairline (runs on moms side). Anyhow, I could tell it was working because of the shedding and I could see terminal hairs popping up like crazy. BUT…I started haivng serious sexual side effects. It wasn’t lack of desire, it was the inability to get a full erection. Orgasming was basically non-existent - sperm volume was unbelievably low (noticeable). By this time, I had been on it for around 4 months and was scared shitless…I thought I was permanently fucked…bald and limp dicked.

I got off of it and within a few months the hair was coming back and I think it is entirely back now (or atleast 90% of it). I now use Nioxin’s system as well as an Aveda product that you rub in after showers (all natural). I’m also mega dosing resveratrol and curcumin - some research shows this COULD possibly help. Who really knows though.

Anyhow, sorry about the lengthy post…I wanted to give my personal story about rogaine to encourage people to think twice about just walking in to a wal-mart, buying it, and using it. It is a POWERFUL DRUG. I’m also not the first to have serious sexual issues while on it…several forums have had men reporting similar stuff- some still haven’t recovered reportedly. Makes one wonder…is it just finasteride causing all these sexual effects or the rogaine as well? Seems like rogaine could be flying under the radar on that one. It’s effects are also systemic and not local…mayn men don’t realize this (I didn’t).

Moral of the story:

  1. Be careful with rogaine/ finasteride
  2. Enjoy what you have. Many young white males think they have a severe recesion working when it is nothing more than their teen hairline maturing. For many, it will stop. Get checked by a derm to confirm.
  3. Explore natural shampoos and methods and, if it gets bad enough, consider hair transplantation (although this is risky as well - but atleast it is just cosmetically risking and not life/ sex threatening).[/quote]

Exactly! Anything that involves blocking DHT has the possibility to affect sexual function in some way or the other, not saying it happens for everyone but that you always run the chance…

I had slight temple recision from a maturing hairline from juvenille when I turned 21 and thats what made me so cautious about watching my hair to make sure I prevent it if it could have happened to turn to MPB down the line.

Thats why I recommended the scalp exercises and massages… although its no guarantee of anything at least its a preventive measure to feel like you are doing something, works better for keeping hair then growing it back though.

FYI most the time hair transplants are used it is always followed with a regime of rogaine and fin to halt any further loss.

[quote]Houston07 wrote:
I tried using rogaine as well and quit because of the sides. I used it almost entirely on the front of my scalp for hairline. I shed a shit ton of hair relatively quick (pretty scary when it actually hits). I literally didn’t want to take showers because I was losing so much. It was most shocking because, other than some slight recession (more than likely just a maturing hairline), I showed no signs of balding when I started. I wanted to use it as a preventative (very vain I know), as I always had a bit of a high hairline (runs on moms side). Anyhow, I could tell it was working because of the shedding and I could see terminal hairs popping up like crazy. BUT…I started haivng serious sexual side effects. It wasn’t lack of desire, it was the inability to get a full erection. Orgasming was basically non-existent - sperm volume was unbelievably low (noticeable). By this time, I had been on it for around 4 months and was scared shitless…I thought I was permanently fucked…bald and limp dicked.

I got off of it and within a few months the hair was coming back and I think it is entirely back now (or atleast 90% of it). I now use Nioxin’s system as well as an Aveda product that you rub in after showers (all natural). I’m also mega dosing resveratrol and curcumin - some research shows this COULD possibly help. Who really knows though.

Anyhow, sorry about the lengthy post…I wanted to give my personal story about rogaine to encourage people to think twice about just walking in to a wal-mart, buying it, and using it. It is a POWERFUL DRUG. I’m also not the first to have serious sexual issues while on it…several forums have had men reporting similar stuff- some still haven’t recovered reportedly. Makes one wonder…is it just finasteride causing all these sexual effects or the rogaine as well? Seems like rogaine could be flying under the radar on that one. It’s effects are also systemic and not local…mayn men don’t realize this (I didn’t).

Moral of the story:

  1. Be careful with rogaine/ finasteride
  2. Enjoy what you have. Many young white males think they have a severe recesion working when it is nothing more than their teen hairline maturing. For many, it will stop. Get checked by a derm to confirm.
  3. Explore natural shampoos and methods and, if it gets bad enough, consider hair transplantation (although this is risky as well - but atleast it is just cosmetically risking and not life/ sex threatening).[/quote]

Exactly! Anything that involves blocking DHT has the possibility to affect sexual function in some way or the other, not saying it happens for everyone but that you always run the chance…

I had slight temple recision from a maturing hairline from juvenille when I turned 21 and thats what made me so cautious about watching my hair to make sure I prevent it if it could have happened to turn to MPB down the line.

Thats why I recommended the scalp exercises and massages… although its no guarantee of anything at least its a preventive measure to feel like you are doing something, works better for keeping hair then growing it back though.

FYI most the time hair transplants are used it is always followed with a regime of rogaine and fin to halt any further loss.

CB-03-01 is a topical anti androgen currently being trialled with apparently impressive results, should be hitting the market in the next 2-3 years as a treatment for acne, but this wont prevent it from being used for hair loss. Its promising because its ideally exerting local anti androgen effects without systemic anti androgen effects (which would cause sex drive issues etc etc) because it rapidly metabolizes in the skin to an inactive drug in the bloodstream. Most drugs of this class have failed on this front so this is one to keep an eye on.

You can buy this yourself online, however its very costly and you do not know the quality of the product. The second problem is creating a vehicle for your topical that works. Not hard in and of itself, but you could have a poor vehicle and make the assumption the drug doesnt work.

RU58841 was a topical anti androgen that was abandoned halfway through its FDA trials. Many hair loss site posters have used it with good success, and it is claimed to have less side effects than finasteride, however it still has caused systemic sides in some users (in high dosages, low dosages seem to be fine). The good news it is much shorter lived than fina in that regard. None the less, this will not be coming out on the public market so black market is your only option and the usual caveats apply.

These are two of the more popular experimental treatments out there, just showing that finasteride is not your only option, its just MPB is a puzzle that most sufferers are not willing to devote time reading into and most doctors dont know anything about and/or are just going to push the “accepted” treatments.

Any one try Dutasteride? I remember TC mentioning it.

In a test area at 24 weeks, results showed:

Placebo -32.3 hairs
Finasteride 5mg 75.6 hairs
Dutasteride 0.1 mg 78.5 hairs
Dutasteride 0.5 mg 94.6 hairs
Dutasteride 2.5 mg 109.6 hairs

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Any one try Dutasteride? I remember TC mentioning it.

In a test area at 24 weeks, results showed:

Placebo -32.3 hairs
Finasteride 5mg 75.6 hairs
Dutasteride 0.1 mg 78.5 hairs
Dutasteride 0.5 mg 94.6 hairs
Dutasteride 2.5 mg 109.6 hairs[/quote]

It’s just a more potent version of finasteride really.

Fina reduces serum DHT by about 70-75% after 6 months. Dutasteride reduces it by 90%.

Otherwise they are nearly identical in action.

does no one care about becoming impotent or complete loss of libido?