T Nation

Moving from Clomid to injections


#1

After six weeks of being on Clomid, I am going to be switching from Clomid to injections. Although my T is in the 500's and my e2 has not increased, I am not feeling any better. I think one main reason is my RBC has lowered significantly and is out of range for a male.

I have a couple of questions based on postings made on the board.

My doctor wants me to start with one injection every week. I see that most people recommend twice a week injections. How do I go about convincing my doctor that twice a week is better? I know my T dropped to 31 nine days after starting Clomid.

How should I handle tapering off Clomid? I see a number of people have posted that an eburpt stoppage of Clomid can have some nasty side effects.


#2

Taper off clomid and landing on and AI is the common advice given on this board.

You need to post your labs and figure out what your problem is before starting injections. Do not get T tunnel vision
So many factors to consider and T is not the be all end all.

Read the stickys

Don't start injections until you know what is wrong.... Trt is for life


#3

Thanks for the advise. I have read the stickies and I do not see anything on moving from Clomid to injections. I agree that a holistic approach needs to be taken. I know that my red blood cell count has decreased since starting to take Clomid.

I am going to post my most recent labs


#4

Taken June 24 through lab Corp. I ordered the females hormone test as was recommended in the stickies.

CBC With Differential/Platelet
WBC 6.4 4.0-10.5 x10E3/uL HD
RBC 4.04 LOW 4.14-5.80 x10E6/uL HD
Hemoglobin 12.7 12.6-17.7 g/dL HD
Hematocrit 39.2 37.5-51.0 % HD
MCV 97 79-97 fL HD
MCH 31.4 26.6-33.0 pg HD
MCHC 32.4 31.5-35.7 g/dL HD
RDW 12.9 12.3-15.4 % HD
Platelets 173 140-415 x10E3/uL HD
Neutrophils 62 40-74 % HD
Lymphs 29 14-46 % HD
Monocytes 6 4-13 % HD
Eos 3 0-7 % HD
Basos 0 0-3 % HD
Neutrophils (Absolute) 4.0 1.8-7.8 x10E3/uL HD
Lymphs (Absolute) 1.8 0.7-4.5 x10E3/uL HD
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.4 0.1-1.0 x10E3/uL HD
Eos (Absolute) 0.2 0.0-0.4 x10E3/uL HD
Baso (Absolute) 0.0 0.0-0.2 x10E3/uL HD
Immature Granulocytes 0 0-2 % HD
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 0.0-0.1 x10E3/uL HD
Comp. Metabolic Panel (14)
Glucose, Serum 83 65-99 mg/dL HD
BUN 23 6-24 mg/dL HD
Creatinine, Serum 0.94 0.76-1.27 mg/dL HD
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 99 >59 mL/min/1.73 HD
eGFR If Africn Am 114 >59 mL/min/1.73 HD
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 24 HIGH 9-20 HD
Sodium, Serum 144 134-144 mmol/L HD
Potassium, Serum 4.7 3.5-5.2 mmol/L HD
Chloride, Serum 105 97-108 mmol/L HD
Carbon Dioxide, Total 25 19-28 mmol/L HD
Calcium, Serum 9.4 8.7-10.2 mg/dL HD
Protein, Total, Serum 6.7 6.0-8.5 g/dL HD
Albumin, Serum 4.6 3.5-5.5 g/dL HD
Globulin, Total 2.1 1.5-4.5 g/dL HD
A/G Ratio 2.2 1.1-2.5 HD
Bilirubin, Total 0.5 0.0-1.2 mg/dL HD
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 38 25-150 IU/L HD
AST (SGOT) 29 0-40 IU/L HD
ALT (SGPT) 28 0-44 IU/L HD
Testosterone, Serum
Testosterone, Serum 513 348-1197 ng/dL HD
Luteinizing Hormone(LH), 10.2 HIGH 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL HD
FSH 9.9 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL HD
E2 - 23.9 7.6-42.6 pg/mL HD


#5

Bump. I posted my last labs as requested


#6

Labs look ok. Suprised with lh this high your total T isn't higher. it appears your testicals may be the problem here.

Other systems play a part

Thyroid needs to be checked as per stickies

Prolactin
Igf-1 if considering hgh theropy
Liver looks good and E2 seems dead on where you want to be
Free testosterone or bio available
Fasting glucose
Cholesterol
Insulin
A1c
C-peptide
DheA-s
Rt3 If feeling stressed or any signs of thyroid or adrenal fatigue

Any labs prior to clomid?

Morning cortisol should be taken at 8 am no later
Progesterone would be nice


#7

If you want to inject 2 times a week which made zero difference for me just split the dose in half and do it. If doctor is giving you the shots and is not familiar with sub-c injections its going to be hard. What amount is he saying per week? Please discribe with ml/mg for someone to understand.

The low red blood cells and h an h are are the lower end is a concern. This could be an auto immune disease,spleen disorder, leukaemia, Hodgkins, anemia or maybe just something going on that has put ur body into defence mode for some reason. This is something your doctor need to keep and eye on... Without labs prior to clomid it isn't really fair to blame this on the drug. Unless you know clomid has this effect on people which I don't know.

On the other hand it's not that low.. Shouldn't be ignored though and I would be retesting after a month


#8

Thanks for the feedback. My RBC, h, and h has dropped while on clomid. My RBC one week on Clomid was 4.49 (range: 4.14-5.80 x10E6/uL) which was in the normal range. H and H were also higher.

I did a more comprehensive test on Friday. I should hopefully have numbers.


#9

Low RBC: This can be from GI bleed. Get an occult blood test kit from doc. You smear poop on a card and mail it. GI bleed can be from various gut problems. Do you have digestive problems? GERD/heart-burn?

TRT can be used to fix Anemia. But your T levels were good enough that this is not going to be a solution.

If you are going SERM-->TRT, no need to taper.