T Nation

Movements in Bodybuilding

now, it’s been more than 3 months since i first started reading about the world of body building and i think i’m now in a decent level of knowledge. however i have a question that i don’t seem to find the answer to, would u help me out?

the question is:
I see a lot of people in my gym doing for example: different sorts of curls (barbell curl, dumbbell curl, cable curl…etc) i’m fine with that, however the thing that has intrigued me is that all 3 movements are only one movement: you lift the weight then lower it in a vertical motion, there is nothing changed between a lift and another. Am i right in thinking that training in a single range of motion is futile? i mean, why not make it like this for example? 1- Barbell Curl 2- Hammer curl (notice that the angle of grip is different)3- cross-body dumbbell curl (the curl is along the stomach and not vertical) 4- a reverse curl (palms down curl)

don’t you think that it makes more sense than doing the same movement with different equipments? sorry if this question was long but i just wanna know if i’m right

Barbell, curl and dumbbell curls are not the same movement.

Each have their own variables and specific reasons for doing.

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
Barbell, curl and dumbbell curls are not the same movement.

Each have their own variables and specific reasons for doing.[/quote]

I’m not talking about their variables, i’m talking about the traditional barbell curl and the traditional dumbbell curl:- both are nothing but one movement performed with different equipments, granted that the dumbbell movement is performed with only one hand at a time, however it’s still the same vertical motion, right?

[quote]funckygarcon wrote:

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
Barbell, curl and dumbbell curls are not the same movement.

Each have their own variables and specific reasons for doing.[/quote]

I’m not talking about their variables, i’m talking about the traditional barbell curl and the traditional dumbbell curl:- both are nothing but one movement performed with different equipments, granted that the dumbbell movement is performed with only one hand at a time, however it’s still the same vertical motion, right?
[/quote]

The variables are what make them different movements tho… (stabilisation, heavier load etc.)

Do a barbell curl and tell me it feels the same as a cable curl.

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:

The variables are what make them different movements tho… (stabilisation, heavier load etc.)
Do a barbell curl and tell me it feels the same as a cable curl.[/quote]

depends on the grip, if you do a narrow grip barbell curl, and grab the cable with the same dimension (narrow), i personally won’t feel the difference. however the talk about the curl was meant to be an example and not the main subject. the subject is:- if doing the same movement with different equipments is futile compared to changing your range of motion. what do you think about it?

don’t you think performing the same movement with different equipments will lead to fatigue, without really getting all your work out’s worth?

I don’t think it is futile, using different equipment can be used for different reasons.

I could do dumbbell curls to warm up, move to heavy barbell curls and then finish on cable curls or another machine variant to safely push beyond the point of failure.

To answer the question. Yes, it makes more sense.

I will not debate the cable vs dumbbell vs barbell. For me, it personal preference. I prefer using cables for tricep work. Nothing wrong with skull crushers or close grip each press, I just prefer cables.

I’ll let you in on a secret. Most people at any gym have no idea what they are doing. That is why we say to people starting out to get on a proven program to get the basics down.

And you are right, using the same exercise but with dumbbells or barbells or cables is redundant.

Doing barbell curls, then doing hammer curls with dumbells and finishing with reverse grip cable curls is what you should aim for.

So, do not follow the rest of your gym.

Cheers

[quote]JFG wrote:
To answer the question. Yes, it makes more sense.

I will not debate the cable vs dumbbell vs barbell. For me, it personal preference. I prefer using cables for tricep work. Nothing wrong with skull crushers or close grip each press, I just prefer cables.

I’ll let you in on a secret. Most people at any gym have no idea what they are doing. That is why we say to people starting out to get on a proven program to get the basics down.

And you are right, using the same exercise but with dumbbells or barbells or cables is redundant.

Doing barbell curls, then doing hammer curls with dumbells and finishing with reverse grip cable curls is what you should aim for.

So, do not follow the rest of your gym.

Cheers

[/quote]

i was sure, i mean think about it, all of them are nothing but vertical movements (up and down) but performed with different equipments, that’s it !! it makes more sense to vary the range of movements. another example is the Dumbbell bench press and the barbell press: same movement performed with different equipments. right?

dumbell bench press and barbell bench press same movement,nope
your 1rm max on barbell bench is 150kg and try it with 2 x 75kg dumbell you’ll find they are not the same movement…
sometimes i think less experienced people get caught up in all these exercise variations instead of mastering the basics but i personally do believe there is a place for these different exercises when you have a few years put into the gym…
my 2cents

Agreed with others…its not simply as ‘different equipment’. Keep reading, young grasshopper.

[quote]davyboy wrote:
dumbell bench press and barbell bench press same movement,nope
your 1rm max on barbell bench is 150kg and try it with 2 x 75kg dumbell you’ll find they are not the same movement…
sometimes i think less experienced people get caught up in all these exercise variations instead of mastering the basics but i personally do believe there is a place for these different exercises when you have a few years put into the gym…
my 2cents [/quote]

the weight used is another story, however it remains the same movement:- you lift your arms then lower them holding the weight, right?

has anyone ever actually seen branch warren do a deadlift?

[quote]funckygarcon wrote:
the weight used is another story, however it remains the same movement:- you lift your arms then lower them holding the weight, right?[/quote]

Funckgarcon ~ do you train? Take no offense from the question, it’s just that you say you’ve been “reading” up on bodybuilding ~ and that doesn’t necessarily mean that you’ve been lifting yourself.

Whether you are training or just reading, try this experiment yourself.
Get on a flat bench. Complete a set of barbell presses. Recover for a few minutes, then try another set on the flat bench with the dumbbells (using the same weight you did for your barbell press).

If it’s your first time with dumbbell presses, you’ll feel like the dumbbells are flying all over the place (nearly out of control). Further, the dumbbell press also gives your shoulders a bit more freedom of movement that many prefer.

Because of the extra work to stabilize. and the additional freedom on your shoulder joint, chances are you would more accurately conclude that they are ‘related’ exercises; not the same exercise.

I agree with OP. It’s better to do curl, hammer curl, incline curl, reverse curl as opposed to bbcurl, db curl, cable curl (all somewhat the same movement). IMO.

Why would someone want do bench from all the same angle in one workout? Flat bench, flat db bench, flat HS bench, and flat flyes. I’m not saying all the exercises are the same but it makes more sense to hit different angles within the workout.

It’s one thing to do flat bench one week, switch it out with flat db bench the next month, and switch it out to flat hs press the next month. But to do all in the same workout is a little redundand. Same with curls.

[quote]JFG wrote:
To answer the question. Yes, it makes more sense.

I will not debate the cable vs dumbbell vs barbell. For me, it personal preference. I prefer using cables for tricep work. Nothing wrong with skull crushers or close grip each press, I just prefer cables.

I’ll let you in on a secret. Most people at any gym have no idea what they are doing. That is why we say to people starting out to get on a proven program to get the basics down.

And you are right, using the same exercise but with dumbbells or barbells or cables is redundant.

Doing barbell curls, then doing hammer curls with dumbells and finishing with reverse grip cable curls is what you should aim for.

So, do not follow the rest of your gym.

Cheers

[/quote]

Missed this. x2

[quote]iplan wrote:

[quote]funckygarcon wrote:
the weight used is another story, however it remains the same movement:- you lift your arms then lower them holding the weight, right?[/quote]

Funckgarcon ~ do you train? Take no offense from the question, it’s just that you say you’ve been “reading” up on bodybuilding ~ and that doesn’t necessarily mean that you’ve been lifting yourself.

Whether you are training or just reading, try this experiment yourself.
Get on a flat bench. Complete a set of barbell presses. Recover for a few minutes, then try another set on the flat bench with the dumbbells (using the same weight you did for your barbell press).

If it’s your first time with dumbbell presses, you’ll feel like the dumbbells are flying all over the place (nearly out of control). Further, the dumbbell press also gives your shoulders a bit more freedom of movement that many prefer.

Because of the extra work to stabilize. and the additional freedom on your shoulder joint, chances are you would more accurately conclude that they are ‘related’ exercises; not the same exercise.[/quote]

don’t worry, i didn’t take any offense, it’s normal for you to think that i don’t train because i only said that i read. however, to answer your question, yes, i train and i like to read about the subject to further increase my experience, because there is nothing more i hate in a gym than seeing guys holding weights and asking themselves what’s next. i like to work out properly and on a scientific approach (how the muscles work, what activates the muscles, what are the most efficient exercises…etc)

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
has anyone ever actually seen branch warren do a deadlift?[/quote]

ever seen lunges as ridiculous as his?

my arm workout

Pushdown/Hammer Curls (across body)
Reverse Pushdowns/Cable Curls
PJR Pullover/Reverse Curls

Different arm positioning and emphasis for each exercise, so no redundancy.

I stole it from Zraw. Tee hee hee

[quote]iplan wrote:

[quote]funckygarcon wrote:
the weight used is another story, however it remains the same movement:- you lift your arms then lower them holding the weight, right?[/quote]

Funckgarcon ~ do you train? Take no offense from the question, it’s just that you say you’ve been “reading” up on bodybuilding ~ and that doesn’t necessarily mean that you’ve been lifting yourself.

Whether you are training or just reading, try this experiment yourself.
Get on a flat bench. Complete a set of barbell presses. Recover for a few minutes, then try another set on the flat bench with the dumbbells (using the same weight you did for your barbell press).

If it’s your first time with dumbbell presses, you’ll feel like the dumbbells are flying all over the place (nearly out of control). Further, the dumbbell press also gives your shoulders a bit more freedom of movement that many prefer.

Because of the extra work to stabilize. and the additional freedom on your shoulder joint, chances are you would more accurately conclude that they are ‘related’ exercises; not the same exercise.[/quote]

Literally beat me to the punch on this one. I have been training for a little over 4 years now. I also had a naive mindset in my first 2-3 years of “apprenticeship”, so to speak. These questions that Funck are asking are valid, however this is where people get crossed up with underestimating and over thinking. Let the guy fail some, and when he is ready to gain some knowledge and valuable input, he will REALLY be dying for it. I am a firm believer that Bodybuilding is a Fail to Succeed sport. Its those who persevere and learn from the mistakes regardless that prevail.