Motorcycles, How to Ride a High Performance Bike

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]XiaoNio wrote:
I know what countersteering is, but I was always taught it as “push right to go right, push left to go left” or “push steering”. Which is really the same as turning the bar in the opposite direction of where you want to go. So, I would think the bike would lean left if you pushed away on the left handlebar. But I guess that depends on what your definition of push is.[/quote]

The idea is not to force it in the direction you want it to go, it is to slightly tip it in the opposite direction and then use the momentum of the counter reaction to bend it into the curve.

Of course you can wrestle it in any direction you want to, but then you always have to overcome a resistance that you could use to your advantage.

Try it, it flows more naturally than when you have to wrestle your bike down at every corner.

[/quote]

I’m with XiaoNio. I use push right go right, push left go left (well don’t even think about it when doing it). The question that Bill asked was what happens when you “push” left on the handlebars, I hope that when I try it tonight on the way home my bike still goes left or I’m in for a shitty ride!

Don’t really understand by what you mean by wrestling it though? There’s very little effort needed to get the bike to lean to take regular corners and even sharp evasive moves aren’t due to me wrestling with my bike.

As for the original OPs question. Best tip that I’ve picked up is to make sure that your upper body is actually leaning when you are leaning into a corner. I try and get my body more in line with the mirrors. Oh, and avoid arseholes that don’t look when they change lanes!

[quote]fighting_fires wrote:
So, Im a new rider, got my license in may and subsequently bought a honda VFR interceptor 800. I like to think that I have been progressing well for being a new rider, I had never ridden before, new how to drive stick, didnt do it often, and had been taught on a dirtbike before but nothing that really counted as “riding”.

A couple of guys I ride with have said that im progressing well especially for my experience. YAY ME lol.

I know theres a lot of guys who ride here. Lets here it, tips, tricks, any kind of things that you would like to talk about on performance and riding.

Little things like better acceleration, where does your bike feel best to get that pop, RPM’s (yes i know all ride differently, how did you find you sweet spot), or general guidelines you follow.

I really dont have anything to contribute seeing as Im a new rider so…[/quote]
Just be SAFE!

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:

[quote]fighting_fires wrote:
I understand there is a difference, i also feel the best way to learn is to do. Somethings you just gotta feel out. In my job I am trained to deliver a baby, theres no practice in that one, at least on an ambulance, when it comes you do it. Bad example i know.

Lets pretend Ive been riding for 20 years and am just trying to start a good conversation about how people like to ride their motorcycles and talk about motorcycles. [/quote]

Well, you could wind up like my first flight instructor, the incompetent Hitoshi Suda, who did not know how an airplane flew, as he learned “just by doing” and therefore for example did not know what would happen if you added power in flight without moving the stick.

Or rather, he THOUGHT he knew, but he did not. In fact the airplane does completely differently than he believed.

Did it look like he could fly a plane? Yes. Did he have the competence to be able to fly a plane in all situations? No, because “learning by doing” (and perhaps from a likewise incompetent instructor) had him not knowing what he was doing.

Feel free to not know how to steer a bike. There are countless riders who don’t know. They can’t steer a bike with any rapid direction changes due to this lack of knowledge. But they think they can ride.

As for pretending you’ve been riding for 20 years rather than giving you advice appropriate to the actual situation, why don’t we pretend the moon is made out of green cheese?[/quote]

Those are the things you learn while in the class. But then how to handle YOUR bike or YOUR car or YOUR plane you have to feel out as you operate it.

As for the tips and such, yes i greatly appreciate them, but i wasnt so much looking for tips as just to get a good conversation going about motorcycles. this has been chalked up a fail on my part of vocabulary. I do greatly appreciate the tips, and if everyone would rather do this as a tips for newbs thats fine too. But i was really just trying to get a bunch of us talking about motorcycles, not lecturing me haha. But i appreciate it.

[quote]XiaoNio wrote:
I would talk about how I bought a Ninja 500, went out into a big empty parking lot late at night and did figure 8’s around lamp posts. I don’t ride anymore, but have a book called Proficient Motorcycling that has a lot of useful tips.

http://www.amazon.com/Proficient-Motorcycling-Ultimate-Guide-Riding/dp/1889540536[/quote]

thanks for the link ill check it out.


These look pretty cool…I’ve always wanted a Honda CBR 1000 but these look interesting. Anyone interested in the Canam Spyder?

I actually teach the beginner motorcycle class in the summer so I like to pretend that I know what I’m talkinga bout.

If there’s only one piece of advice I give you it’s LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO

Did you catch that?

LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO!!!

Seriously, above and beyond all else that’s the biggest one I have for you. If you’re turning left look left, if your chin isn’t pointing to the exit of your corner you’re not looking far enough ahead. If you could turn your head further, you should!

Aside from that please take a course if you’re a beginner, there’s no substitute for expert instruction.

If you’re not a beginner then take a course, just make it a higher level one. Take a race school and do a track day, take an advanced riders course, or a police skills course, or take a basic trials lesson. Anything.

My boss used to race professional superbike, he teaches race schools around the world and you know what he does in the winter? Takes race schools, despite being the same guy that teaches them and despite being retired from active racing. Why? Because everyone has something else to offer, and every instructor will give you a slightly different insight into riding.

Oh yeah. . .

LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO!

Just in case you missed it earlier. . .

I’m glad I got a used, light, low powered bike for my first. There’s been a number of times I’ve given a little too much throttle which would have ruined my day if it were a big bike. Still ended up dumping it. Wish someone would have told me new tires need to be “scrubbed”.

-Take the beginner MSF course.
-Most of YOUR knowledge about the bike will come from actual seat time.
-Sign up for some track days. You get to learn a lot about the bike through the course, can ride at a pace you deem acceptable (possibly pushing your limits a bit), and can ask the guidance/tips of an instructor.
-ATGATT
-Do your own maintenance or at least be present when maintenance is done
-Read Twist of the Wrist, Throttle Control, or Sport Riding Technique

Most importantly: HAVE FUN and BE SAFE

READ “THE HURT REPORT”…

Old, yes… But still, best we got for US.

There is also a motorcycle accident analysis out of the UK.

Traffic survival skills are most important.

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
These look pretty cool…I’ve always wanted a Honda CBR 1000 but these look interesting. Anyone interested in the Canam Spyder?[/quote]

Rode one at Bike week couple years ago…

Feels like a snowmobile.
They don’t lean, so if you corner it is up to you to hang on as the lateral force is not directed into the seat (as it is when you lean a bike). Excellent braking: barely got the rear wheel off, but I was 2 up and my boy was like 160 lbs then…

Yeah, let me join in on that chorus. TAKE A CLASS!!!

ive taken the basic course and am saving up to take one of the other courses. they offer many, any tips on which one(s) are most beneficial?

Ride your bike for a bit before you take the next class. Most classes require a certain amount of seat time before they let you in (I think the advanced was something like 500-1000hrs). That gives you enough time to learn YOUR bike and YOUR reactions, which they will then better in the course.

Random observations/strategies from Combat Commuting:
I’ve got about 220k miles.

Ice Sucks.

Crashing sucks.

Never out ride your eyes.

There are old riders. There are bold riders. There are NO old bold riders.

If your ride, you will go down. Not if, when.

Never think they see you. People look for threats, you are not a threat. Presume they are looking right through you.

The front wheel of a car tends to twitch prior to people signaling, probably before they’ve even decided to turn.

Drivers get especially dangerous before, during, and after weather changes. Nice to cruddy, cruddy to nice, either way…

Keep enough stopping distance in front of you for both yourself and the car behind you, add some if the car ahead of you isn’t maintaining their stopping distance.

Keep track of the debris in intersections. Notice where you see broken glass and plastic. If there tends to be debris there then there tends to be accidents there.

Watch your traction limits. Oil strip, leaves, water, tire condition and especially TEMPERATURE. Stopping distance goes seriously up under 50 degrees, radically below 40.

New tires are slick.

If you haven’t ridden in last week or so, your risk goes up radically.

Watch the dedicated turn lanes, particularly if there’s 2 or more lanes per side.

Read about what is the highest risk. It is NOT highway, but country highways, followed by city streets…

Fatigue and hypothermia increase risk as much as alcohol.

Bike magazine out of UK is wonderful. Rider was great here… Learn to survive.

Running a bit faster (like rarely get passed) then traffic is safer then slower then traffic.

Acceleration will get you out of a jam just like braking can.

DO your drills.

More then 500 miles in a day is hard.

Respect your limits.

NO ALCOHOL, none. Even a little may dull you.

Only the paranoid survive.

Ensure your oil plug is tight, lost mine at a bit over 100 fully loaded. I triple check now…

Modulating headlights and Backoffs are great things.

Group riding is harder then it seems…

There’s more but sick of typing, may edit later.

^paranoid, that’s me, I’m riding a Honda VTX 1800R, which I love, but sucks in corners, the first time I started dragging the foot pedals (lucky they are on springs) I almost crapped my pants. Can’t turn sharp on this bike.

Pushing left the go right becomes second nature if you play around with it a little bit. It seems backwards at first, but you get used to it.

I ride like no one else sees me, because odds are they don’t. People are clueless morons, you have to be ready for any stupid shit people throw your way. The guy I bought my first motorcycle from got to play Superman the hard way, bitch turns in front of him, then sees him, and swerves the direction he tries to go to avoid her. Lucky for him no lasting damage.

I get nervous if I attempt anything over 100mph, I started getting this little voice that goes “you only have two tires, what if one goes at this speed?” so I pussy out. I’ve gone faster in a Kia spectra (125mph) than a motorcycle for this reason (115mpg). After I get a fresh set of tires on my beast, things might be different.

If I’m traveling down the road, I like to “own” my lane. Some one correct me if this is stupid, I just don’t like hanging all the way over to the right in the right lane, I feel it invites trouble. I ride on the left side of the right lane, and the right side of the left line, like I’m staking out my territory. It’s MY lane, stay the fuck out of it.

If I’m traveling down a road such as above, and need to pass someone, but the speed difference isn’t big, I NEVER creep by someone, I roll the throttle and get by them fast. Nothing creeps me out more than riding in a blind spot. People in cars are your enemies.

Cars are driven by idiots, you must remember this every single time you get on a bike. You need to pay attention at all times, there are no seat belts, air bags, crumple zones, between you and them, just air and opportunity. You can’t zone out on a bike, be on your guard for douchbaggery at all times.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]XiaoNio wrote:
I know what countersteering is, but I was always taught it as “push right to go right, push left to go left” or “push steering”. Which is really the same as turning the bar in the opposite direction of where you want to go. So, I would think the bike would lean left if you pushed away on the left handlebar. But I guess that depends on what your definition of push is.[/quote]

The idea is not to force it in the direction you want it to go, it is to slightly tip it in the opposite direction and then use the momentum of the counter reaction to bend it into the curve.

Of course you can wrestle it in any direction you want to, but then you always have to overcome a resistance that you could use to your advantage.

Try it, it flows more naturally than when you have to wrestle your bike down at every corner.

[/quote]

Orion, I believe that you understand the point of what I am saying but didn’t read the post accurately. Hence the other posters being confused by your reply.

It seems you thought I wrote, What happens if you apply force to turn the bar to the left? To which you correctly answered, were that what I had written, The bike turns right.

But actually I wrote, What happens when you push on the left bar.

To which, as you know but most beginning riders do not, the answer is that the bike will turn left.

It is in fact the only way, other than the equivalent action of pulling on the right bar or mixing the two forces, to get the bike to quickly turn to the left.

It is a sad, and unsafe, situation when someone is out riding a bike on the roads and has no idea of this. But unfortunately it is all too common.

[quote]Lordcliff wrote:
^paranoid, that’s me, I’m riding a Honda VTX 1800R, which I love, but sucks in corners, the first time I started dragging the foot pedals (lucky they are on springs) I almost crapped my pants. Can’t turn sharp on this bike.

Pushing left the go right becomes second nature if you play around with it a little bit. It seems backwards at first, but you get used to it.

I ride like no one else sees me, because odds are they don’t. People are clueless morons, you have to be ready for any stupid shit people throw your way. The guy I bought my first motorcycle from got to play Superman the hard way, bitch turns in front of him, then sees him, and swerves the direction he tries to go to avoid her. Lucky for him no lasting damage.

I get nervous if I attempt anything over 100mph, I started getting this little voice that goes “you only have two tires, what if one goes at this speed?” so I pussy out. I’ve gone faster in a Kia spectra (125mph) than a motorcycle for this reason (115mpg). After I get a fresh set of tires on my beast, things might be different.

If I’m traveling down the road, I like to “own” my lane. Some one correct me if this is stupid, I just don’t like hanging all the way over to the right in the right lane, I feel it invites trouble. I ride on the left side of the right lane, and the right side of the left line, like I’m staking out my territory. It’s MY lane, stay the fuck out of it.

If I’m traveling down a road such as above, and need to pass someone, but the speed difference isn’t big, I NEVER creep by someone, I roll the throttle and get by them fast. Nothing creeps me out more than riding in a blind spot. People in cars are your enemies.

Cars are driven by idiots, you must remember this every single time you get on a bike. You need to pay attention at all times, there are no seat belts, air bags, crumple zones, between you and them, just air and opportunity. You can’t zone out on a bike, be on your guard for douchbaggery at all times.

[/quote]

You’re correct about dominant lane position, you should try to avoid riding next to curbs and meridians whenever possible. If you ride next to them your lane seems very inviting to a vehicle who’s pretty sure he can fit in there with you if he tries hard. Plus if you’re up next to the curb you have no escape should someone do something stupid. If you ride in a dominant lane position you have a whole lane to escape into.

Nice to see someone else riding a VTX, I have a 2005 VTX 1800C model, bought her new off the showroom floor and I’ve taken her quite a few places and done quite a few mods. I even went Darkside. . .

Are you on the VTXOA forum?

I get what OP is saying. I just recently got my M and have a ninja 250. I took a riding class, but they mostly teach surviving skills. Mine was taught on the parking lot and you couldn’t get much of the riding experience or riding for a while in a certain gear.

I went for a group ride last Tuesday and it was tougher than anticipated. It was tons of fun as I was able to maneuver Z turns at higher speeds than i would on my own BUT! I was critiqued on not downshifting correctly ( or at all) before taking a turn and I guess I just needed to get a better feel of my bike. I noticed that most riders were able to take off much quicker at a stop light b/c they had faster bikes. Mine 250 and under 100 miles experience was not up to par.

So I guess no one can really teach you or give u a tip of how to get in a powerband or find a perfect timing to downshift before a turn. Just have to ride yourself and get your own feel.

[quote]Sturat wrote:

You’re correct about dominant lane position, you should try to avoid riding next to curbs and meridians whenever possible. If you ride next to them your lane seems very inviting to a vehicle who’s pretty sure he can fit in there with you if he tries hard. Plus if you’re up next to the curb you have no escape should someone do something stupid. If you ride in a dominant lane position you have a whole lane to escape into.

Nice to see someone else riding a VTX, I have a 2005 VTX 1800C model, bought her new off the showroom floor and I’ve taken her quite a few places and done quite a few mods. I even went Darkside. . .

Are you on the VTXOA forum?

[/quote]

I don’t remember if I signed up for that forum or not, I spent quite a while just soaking up info of a few a couple years ago, but haven’t looked at a bike forum in probably over a year. If memory serves me, VTXOA had some good info.

I can’t turn to the darkside, unless I change out my back wheel, apparently the spokes don’t lend themselves well to that.

Ah, I didn’t realize you had an RS model. No there’s no easy way for you to go darkside because spoked wheels require that you run a tube and it doesn’t work nearly as well with a car tire.

Too bad, I love it.

The VTXOA forum is great, easily the best one I’ve found on the net for providing useful information.