Most Time Tested Program

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
21

[quote]Shortest Straw wrote:
Why Don’t you call the School?,and ask about the Record Boards I think thats verification. Man I have no need to lie about lifts! PERIOD. I guess you could ask Ricki Ellison 4 time superbowl champ (gray), Mario Bates, Michael Bates bronze medalist, Jon Volpe, William Peterson, Sam Merriman. To name a few. Take it to the negative why dont ya.

I beg to differ, about HS kids, Yeah t levels are high, but SOOOOO many kids don’t make good gains and train hard. Especially don’t make good gains in Powerlifts or achieve a SOLID base.

Here is how the school goes, most strive for shirts, after shirts there is the all time record boards, I don’t exactly know what the records are now to a T.

shirts
200 powerclean
250 powerclean

350, 400, 450, squat ( he stands behind you croched and claps at parallel otherwise you don’t get the shirt

dead lift 400, 450,

Bench 260, 300

than you get the 1000 lb club shirtfor bench, squat, and deadlift

I guess you could call and verify the school football program to verify these shirts as true

boards records
jon volpe held the squat record for a long time at 605 ( he beat out rocket ismail for cfl rookie of the year) see attached article
Powerclean record now I think is 340 , when I played was held by M bates at 305.
deadlift record was 585 10 best down from that on each lift
I deadlifted 535 for number three but have sense been knocked off the boards

Bench record was 365, but I think it is 405 now.

Why don’t you google Vern Friedli, some say he is regarded as the best HS coach in the nation. As a matter of fact then you can email him or something! for all you non believer challenge everything types! His name is known among all levels of football. Only reason for losing records in recent years is a diminished enrollment from newer richer schools. one of few coaches ever to reach 300 wins

here are some

Ahttp://www.tucsonweekly.com/gbase/Currents/Content?oid=oid%3A41823rticles

articleshttp://www.tucsonweekly.com/tw/10-02-97/feat.htm

Hey man,

I’m not sure if you’re getting heated or not, but if you are it’s not really necessary. I can’t even remember the number of times that I’ve heard people claim bogus lifting numbers only to find out that they were blatantly lying, or doing half bench presses, quarter squats, etc. So, you shouldn’t really be surprised at my sketicism. And it does help that you gave additional information as I’m much more likely to believe you. That is all I was asking for, and you gave it. That’s all. I’m interested to see if anyone is going to try this program and the results that they’d get from it.

-MAtt

22

Hi Shortest Straw, thanks for sharing this program. I’m looking forward to trying it once I rap up my wrap up current training cycle.

I was wondering about the tweaked version as I’m already at or slightly ahead of the minimums. Or do you think I should start with it as is?

23

No mat Im not exactly heated, I guess its roid rage!!! haha , I do appreciate you giving me a chance to explain why I felt this way.

I have to say that I have worked with HS football programs for some years, and felt blessed to of played for this guy. I volunter coached at this top LA HS, called Notre Dame, and let me tell you I had to keep my mouth Shut, these kids were spoiled, without any intensity, and very little willingness to train.

Especially the hard lifts like deads and cleans. I figured out that every HS has some magic benchers, and gifted squaters but the other lifts take some heart and teaching.

THE TWEAKED Version>>>

I would for sure, do it for a month before tweaking. I would make sure your around 400 squat Parallel, 450 deadlift, 250 clean, 300 bench before adding in the different version.

MOST add in will be on Heavy Days.

SIDE NOTE> I learned that having weight training class in school was beneficial. I loved splitting my main lifts up over am times and after school team lifting times.

This helped most often on Heavy Days IN THE SUMMER I WOULD ALWAYS SPLIT LIFTs ON HEAVY DAYS.
but in school I had the time and the love so I would split them all the time.

mon I hated squating Early in the AM I always felt stronger after a couple of meals and snacks

MOn end at 85% 54321
Bench AM
Ad in Some Flys 2 to 3 sets of not failure training around 10 to 12 reps

Squats Afternoon 54321 protocol
Leg curls Higher reps perfect form 3 sets 10 to 12 often one legg at a time

IF YOU ARE a strong as bencher over 315 you could do some dips, but make sure they arent the super failure kind, just nice quick and powerfull

Tues day 85%
CLean in the Am , thats it, great way to super focus on form.
Deadlift afternoon
Reverse curls 5setsof 5 or incline hammer curls

Weds, optimally do nothing, but if you feel like it calves and abs, otherwise integrate them on other days

THURSDAY the day you dream about.
Am bench heavy ending at 95% 54321
Squat Afternoon

incline barbell or DB 4 sets of 6
Legg curls heavy explosive 4 sets of 6

Triceps, 5 sets of 5 skull crushers or california crushers, or do your dips on this day instead of mon!

Friday
Clean AM

Afternoon
Deadlift
behind the neck press 10 8 6 6
Bent over rows or chins,
i like bent over rows to work on stance discipline esp for linebackers

front raises 3 sets of 8, I liked front raises cause I loved using forearm shivers, and found that punishing to the opposition.

obviously if you cant split up the lifts do them all together!

SAT AND SUNDAY, REST and EAT, and REFLECT

I really used the weakends to go over my goals. I visualized what it was like to get that next shirt , or new record. I could feel it , picture the weight, carry the intensity, put my goals on the wall. think about it all the time. I kept things realistically for the following weak. If I new it was time for a new max, I would start plotting out how I would warm up.

If I was weak on thurs or friday I would ask myself, if I got much sleep? did I eat well? did I drink at parties?

again less is more try the basic one first as its very demanding on the nervous system. give it a month and be a strong dude before adding!
Thats tweaked vs !A, if you have done this for 3 months and your loving it i’ll give you tweaked version B AND C, including how and when to incorporate sprints in. but for that you’ll need to be a 500 deadlifter, 450 squater, 335 bencher, 275 cleaner.!

24

heres some of the articles that didn’t come up

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tw/10-02-97/feat.htm

25

I don’t think there is any arguing that a ‘getting back to basics’ rotine like this could help a lot of people. Someone discussed age and the taxing of their backs. Sure doing it the way a high schooler does could be difficult but for someone, no matter the age, who has not been doing compound moves could benefit greatly. Simply lowering the weight and percentages could help someone who felt it was overload but they could still see some good gains.

26

I would like more info and to get the shirts … my son will be rehabing from another knee reconstruction…he tore his graft… he is 5 foot 11 and weighs 205 benches 205 for 3 reps and deadlifts 315 not sure about his clean… do you do hanging cleans or from the floor… he will be a senior and is the third fastest lineman and very filled out and strong for the small AA school attends…
Thanks
Ed Boze

27

I forgot to mention that this program is highly designed to get you used to the schedule of football.

You are never not using your hips and lowerback in football, but your are rarely going full speed full contact 5 days a week.

So most coachs do hitting drills one day, speed drills, sled work, scrimmage, and a walk through before leading up to

The game day, which rivals fridays workout of cleans and deadlifts

28

Still have not heard back from the author… I have seen similar set-ups with other S&C programs of major colleges

29

Is this post still active

30

[quote]edboze wrote:
Is this post still active[/quote]

Not sure but it deserves the bump.

I think this program looks great. It reminds me some of Chad Waterbury’s stuff. I.e. lift heavy, use compound lifts, don’t go to failure, you can train through soreness, etc. It also has a lower volume than a lot of other programs but a higher frequency of training.

How am I supposed to live with no regrets after reading this? If I’d have been lifting like that in HS I’d be a beast right now.

Any more info about the program?

31

I didn’t know this post was still popping.

What questions do you guys have?

Regarding the shirts? thats school specific, and even then 205 bench wouldn’t get you a shirt! (teach your son to clean!)

I know the people that have given the program a once over, see the incredible volume but really its not. 85% of your max is not that hard and you can concentrate on your form.

There is something woderful about the really hard friday as it corelates to (friday night lights). and having the weekend to recover.

I was hoping someone was willing to do this program for at least 6 weeks! come on guys any takers?

32

[quote]edboze wrote:
I would like more info and to get the shirts … my son will be rehabing from another knee reconstruction…he tore his graft… he is 5 foot 11 and weighs 205 benches 205 for 3 reps and deadlifts 315 not sure about his clean… do you do hanging cleans or from the floor… he will be a senior and is the third fastest lineman and very filled out and strong for the small AA school attends…
Thanks
Ed Boze
[/quote]

In the begining I would stick with cleans off the floor. Especially for lineman, as it gets them in good stance position. But once he got over 250lb clean I would recommend mixing it up with hang cleans. Other positions like lb, and running back benefit more from hang cleans.

Knee sucks! make sure he rehabs, I suggest lots of ART, and Acupuncture! yes acupuncture! Also have a stronge masseuse open up his IT band (the tendon between the quad and ham. as I found out the hard way that causes alott of Knee surgaries.

regarding shirts, work with your son to set specific goals. If you want him to be good he should learn the cordinating movement of a proper powerclean.

You could have your own shirts made from those sporting trophy stich embroidery places.

I would suggest for him a 405 deadlift, maybe 250 bench, and 205 clean, OUrs said Panther 250 PowerClean etc etc.

33

Hi, I gave the program a try for September 15 through until November 3. I think the program is very solid, results are as follows:

Starting lifts were 340 bench, 200 powerclean, 390 squat (just below paralell) and 435 deadlift, all for singles.

By the end bench stayed the same, powerclean was 210, squat was 415 and deadlift was 455.

I was really pleased with the progress on the squats and deads, the powerclean was probably held back by me terrible form. I think the reason the bench didn’t move is that my triceps are way weak as I generally don’t train them (I’m a pec bencher)and I didn’t have time to do anything more than the base program.

By November I got off the program because I lost my gym access. I have a half-rack and a weight set at home but I can’t really do cleans or deads off the floors (house rule…argh).

Some things I’m still comfused about though:

1 I made the work set jumps 5% like in the original examples for a 200 pound lift jumping 10 pounds a set. Was this correct because the first couple of sets felt relatively light with 20 pound jumps (on squats and deadlifts)

2 Was I supposed to max out without the 4 other worksets periodically and use that to reset the percentages or just keep adding weight as long as it goes up week by week?

3 When I run into a plateau should I cycle the poundages back a bit and try to get a running start or keep plugging away with the percenages?

Anyhow, I feel the program was fantastic and that the bumps along the way were just in my application (bad form, neglecting the tricep work, etc). Thanks again to the original poster for posting it.

34

[quote]J-D wrote:
Hi, I gave the program a try for September 15 through until November 3. I think the program is very solid, results are as follows:

Starting lifts were 340 bench, 200 powerclean, 390 squat (just below paralell) and 435 deadlift, all for singles.

By the end bench stayed the same, powerclean was 210, squat was 415 and deadlift was 455.

I was really pleased with the progress on the squats and deads, the powerclean was probably held back by me terrible form. I think the reason the bench didn’t move is that my triceps are way weak as I generally don’t train them (I’m a pec bencher)and I didn’t have time to do anything more than the base program.

By November I got off the program because I lost my gym access. I have a half-rack and a weight set at home but I can’t really do cleans or deads off the floors (house rule…argh).

Some things I’m still comfused about though:

1 I made the work set jumps 5% like in the original examples for a 200 pound lift jumping 10 pounds a set. Was this correct because the first couple of sets felt relatively light with 20 pound jumps (on squats and deadlifts)

Well It depends wether its your 85% day, or your 95% day. But basically you want to go as close to your percentages without going over. On 85% day your not gonna be going to failure. On 95% each of your WORKING sets should be going to failure (without assistance). So if your max is 340 (your gonna have to warm up alott before you get to your first working set of 5. So I would start with like 185 for 8 and do a bunch of multiple sets of 3 to 5 reps until you reach your first 5 for failure. once youve warmed up I would say you would be doing 295 for 5,305 for 4 315 for 3, 320 for 2 325 for 1. OR ditch the 1 and do two sets of 2. I found two sets of two at the end to work well on bench and deadlift. So lets say your new max was 350, your 85% will change for the next week as well as your 95%. so if you got 350 your new next thursday 95% day you would be ending at 335 and would end up doing like 305 for 5 315 for 4 325 for 3 335 for 2 335 for 2. your 85% day would be ending at 295 (on 85% day I round down, on 95% day i round up) so you would do like 255 for 5 265 4 275 3 285 2 295 1. (thats ending at 85% of max)

WHen to do a new max. When that 1, or to sets of two is easy, You go for a new MAX the following thursday on 95% day. You obviously don’t do all your 54321 sets before hitting a new max, but I would recommend many multiple sets for warm ups pairing in some chins and rotator cuff work. I weighted chin or bent over row should be performed before you hit your new max.(cause you will be stronger.

That brings me to my other point, your bench probably didn’t get stronger because your back or rotators are weaker in comparision. I would defenitely try to strengthen your rotator per poliquins recomendations, using no more than 8 reps for multiple sets, you should be using around a 35 lb db for your sets if your benching 340. Pair them on your heavy chest day.

Also Maybe you should add in some DB and or Dips on different days cause your bench is relatively strong.
On heavy day Do 4 sets of 6 with incline db, AFter you bench on your light day, start with 2 sets of 6 to 8 weighted full range dips after you bench.
I found great success doing the bench in the AM, and later in the day doing the DB work after I squated. either way is fine.

The only time this program wasn’t working was when someone went to heavy on 85% days.

2 Was I supposed to max out without the 4 other worksets periodically and use that to reset the percentages or just keep adding weight as long as it goes up week by week?

Hopefully I answered that above.

3 When I run into a plateau should I cycle the poundages back a bit and try to get a running start or keep plugging away with the percenages?

When I ran into plateaus It was generally cause I went to heavy early in the week on 85% day. Or wasn’t eating enough.

Anyhow, I feel the program was fantastic and that the bumps along the way were just in my application (bad form, neglecting the tricep work, etc). Thanks again to the original poster for posting it.[/quote]

Im willing to bet I could get you to 505 deadlift pretty quickly.
Im willing to bet that your bench will shoot up when you strengthen your rotators.
Cleans, there friggen hard. Concentrate on super explosive form keeping the bar as close to your body as possible. Keep the arms straight when your first exploading up. If you need help practice doing explosive powerpulls to get used to launching with your legs.

regarding your gym situation<
do romanian deadlifts, and hang cleans instead. That way you can still get building!

35

[quote]Kill’Em All wrote:
I was hoping someone was willing to do this program for at least 6 weeks! come on guys any takers?[/quote]

I plan on trying it. I’ll have to wait until around mid-january to start because I have a lot of traveling in the near future. Also, I need to learn to powerclean.

Any suggestions on learning the lift?

36

[quote]Kill’Em All wrote:
J-D wrote:
Hi, I gave the program a try for September 15 through until November 3. I think the program is very solid, results are as follows:

Starting lifts were 340 bench, 200 powerclean, 390 squat (just below paralell) and 435 deadlift, all for singles.

By the end bench stayed the same, powerclean was 210, squat was 415 and deadlift was 455.

I was really pleased with the progress on the squats and deads, the powerclean was probably held back by me terrible form. I think the reason the bench didn’t move is that my triceps are way weak as I generally don’t train them (I’m a pec bencher)and I didn’t have time to do anything more than the base program.

By November I got off the program because I lost my gym access. I have a half-rack and a weight set at home but I can’t really do cleans or deads off the floors (house rule…argh).

Some things I’m still comfused about though:

1 I made the work set jumps 5% like in the original examples for a 200 pound lift jumping 10 pounds a set. Was this correct because the first couple of sets felt relatively light with 20 pound jumps (on squats and deadlifts)

Well It depends wether its your 85% day, or your 95% day. But basically you want to go as close to your percentages without going over. On 85% day your not gonna be going to failure. On 95% each of your WORKING sets should be going to failure (without assistance). So if your max is 340 (your gonna have to warm up alott before you get to your first working set of 5. So I would start with like 185 for 8 and do a bunch of multiple sets of 3 to 5 reps until you reach your first 5 for failure. once youve warmed up I would say you would be doing 295 for 5,305 for 4 315 for 3, 320 for 2 325 for 1. OR ditch the 1 and do two sets of 2. I found two sets of two at the end to work well on bench and deadlift. So lets say your new max was 350, your 85% will change for the next week as well as your 95%. so if you got 350 your new next thursday 95% day you would be ending at 335 and would end up doing like 305 for 5 315 for 4 325 for 3 335 for 2 335 for 2. your 85% day would be ending at 295 (on 85% day I round down, on 95% day i round up) so you would do like 255 for 5 265 4 275 3 285 2 295 1. (thats ending at 85% of max)

WHen to do a new max. When that 1, or to sets of two is easy, You go for a new MAX the following thursday on 95% day. You obviously don’t do all your 54321 sets before hitting a new max, but I would recommend many multiple sets for warm ups pairing in some chins and rotator cuff work. I weighted chin or bent over row should be performed before you hit your new max.(cause you will be stronger.

That brings me to my other point, your bench probably didn’t get stronger because your back or rotators are weaker in comparision. I would defenitely try to strengthen your rotator per poliquins recomendations, using no more than 8 reps for multiple sets, you should be using around a 35 lb db for your sets if your benching 340. Pair them on your heavy chest day.

Also Maybe you should add in some DB and or Dips on different days cause your bench is relatively strong.
On heavy day Do 4 sets of 6 with incline db, AFter you bench on your light day, start with 2 sets of 6 to 8 weighted full range dips after you bench.
I found great success doing the bench in the AM, and later in the day doing the DB work after I squated. either way is fine.

The only time this program wasn’t working was when someone went to heavy on 85% days.

2 Was I supposed to max out without the 4 other worksets periodically and use that to reset the percentages or just keep adding weight as long as it goes up week by week?

Hopefully I answered that above.

3 When I run into a plateau should I cycle the poundages back a bit and try to get a running start or keep plugging away with the percenages?

When I ran into plateaus It was generally cause I went to heavy early in the week on 85% day. Or wasn’t eating enough.

Anyhow, I feel the program was fantastic and that the bumps along the way were just in my application (bad form, neglecting the tricep work, etc). Thanks again to the original poster for posting it.

Im willing to bet I could get you to 505 deadlift pretty quickly.
Im willing to bet that your bench will shoot up when you strengthen your rotators.
Cleans, there friggen hard. Concentrate on super explosive form keeping the bar as close to your body as possible. Keep the arms straight when your first exploading up. If you need help practice doing explosive powerpulls to get used to launching with your legs.

regarding your gym situation<
do romanian deadlifts, and hang cleans instead. That way you can still get building!
[/quote]

Cool, I’ll definately apply those tips. Rotator cuff work and the Romanians will be a new experience!

I was definately going too light on the early work sets, this cleared a lot up for my thick head:)

Thanks again.

37

Glad you gave this a shot!
REgarding powercleans?
Form can be tricky, I had to reteach peoples form even taught by so called experts.

I prefer someone to learn a superexplosive high catch and drop,rather than a quick catch and squat it up.

what state do you live in?

Maybe investigating the local college, or various strength organizations?

Be prepared though that powerlifters who train the clean often do a jumping reverse curl , or squat it.

find someone that does a beautiful catch, and explosive.

Investigate the Power Gyms in your area.
Golds , Worlds, etc, see if there is someone worthy that trains there.!!!

38

Thanks for replying and just happen to check this post and was pleased to see it is active as I thought before the poster was not responding…
My son recently bench 225 for 3 reps at his school weight room
That is a pretty good gain from 205 in less than two months
I have used ART for his knee prior to surgery and may use again now that he is about 7 weeks post-op … he does have week hamstrings and will look into the massage… he needs to work on hip mobility as well…
I think I will go to a business as you stated and get some shirts made of his school… maybe it will catch on and will motivate other players
I agree with your parimeters for each lift and feel they are well in reach…

39

[quote]edboze wrote:
Thanks for replying and just happen to check this post and was pleased to see it is active as I thought before the poster was not responding…
My son recently bench 225 for 3 reps at his school weight room
That is a pretty good gain from 205 in less than two months
I have used ART for his knee prior to surgery and may use again now that he is about 7 weeks post-op … he does have week hamstrings and will look into the massage… he needs to work on hip mobility as well…
I think I will go to a business as you stated and get some shirts made of his school… maybe it will catch on and will motivate other players
I agree with your parimeters for each lift and feel they are well in reach… [/quote]

I was curious to see what his results were now?

40

If any of you dont mind helping a novice, what the hell is a ‘shirt’, besides the clothes you wear on your back?

I gather its slang for a kind of kinetic movement like a clean & jerk or something.

PM me if you can answer, I hate coming across as a hijacker.