T Nation

Most People Start Dosing Too High, Too Many Compounds

Ok I’ve been reading here for a little while now (not ages like some of you guys but I am a pretty avid reader) and there seems to be a common thread that I keep seeing repeated over and over. It’s about the guys that are trying to dial in a TRT protocol, and are having major issues and difficulty trying to do so.

The one thing I see in common with ALMOST all of them, is that their protocol involves multiple compounds (Test, HCG, sometimes AI, sometimes not) AND, they always seem to start WAY high and try to dial in a protocol by backing down.

Does anyone else notice this commonality? If I am right (and I’m not saying I am) wouldn’t the answer to all these issues be somewhat simple? Start LOW and with ONLY Test? Then dial in the Test over however long it takes, THEN start adding HCG? I mean, it almost seems like some guys are so worried about their nutsack that they ruin their chances of ever really dialing in a protocol because they throw too much shit at their bodies at once. If I understand correctly (and someone please correct me if I’m wrong here) but you won’t permantly kill your nuts by starting TRT solo for a while. They will produce again once you introduce HCG, even if that’s a few months after the fact right?

Anyway… Just a few random thoughts I had that I thought would make a good discussion, and hopefully learn from some of you guys in the process.

I agree. I would like to add that I read many guys keep changing protocol before their body adapts to the previous one. I did the same thing.

Guys start feeling stuff at the beginning of a protocol and start taking ai and a bunch of supplements that can cause things to f up.

Start t solo. I agree. Adding exogenous testosterone is already a huge shocker to the entire Endocrine system.

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I agree with this after being on a variety of protocols for years and now am only taking a test blend (cyp + prop) + clomid every 3 days. I experimented with T only, T + hcg, T + arimidex, T + aromasin, T with hcg and an AI, T with an AI and Nolva, T with Nolva only; once per week injections, every 3.5 days, EOD etc.

I also think that most of us jump onto the T train too soon before truly attempting to locate the root cause because we’re so desperate for relief.

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I think this is what drive the too much too soon issue. I’m guilty of it. I felt like absolute shit for so long I wanted as much of the magic as I could get.

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I think most are brother. When you feel like shit you want to feel normal again like yesterday. I get it. I was extremely lucky to find this forum BEFORE I started, and I heeded the warnings and read between the lines. I guess that’s why I am asking the question because I don’t seem to have anywhere near the issues that I read from some of the poor guys I’m reading about lately. I read a lot on here and asked a ton of questions and finally started at 50mg E3.5D Test Cyp only (based on advice I received here). I never felt like I was on a cycle and I never really had a “honeymoon” period so to speak. I just started noticing after a couple weeks that “hey, I don’t feel so much like shit today” and then it just keeps getting a little better over time. Slow and steady progress is the only way I can describe it.

That’s why I got to wondering what the major difference was between my experience to this point and some of the others that have had issues. Maybe I’ve been lucky so far, but maybe it’s because I didn’t throw a bunch of stuff into the mix at one time. Maybe it’s because I didn’t start at 300mg a week or it could even be that I just started with a good injection frequency right off the bat? I truly don’t know but that’s why I started this thread. I wanted to get some of you guys input and “compare notes”.

So here is where I have the problem. That is a decent protocol to start with. And you probably felt pretty good for a while, then crashed, and a few weeks later were on the upswing. I started out with 100mg every 14 days for the first 6 weeks. I crashed lower than I had been in years…for a month and a half. My T went from 350 to 265 and had to push for an increase. He doubled it to 200mg every 14 days. Didn’t feel better until I started E7D injections. But this all took months of feeling my lowest of low. If he had come in at 150mg a week and brought me down from there I would have been much better off I feel.

Sounds like you had a rough go of it.

This is why it so perplexing to me. I started at 50mg E3.5D and have been there since. No crashes yet, except in days where I knew there was a reason for it, like having too much to drink or not getting any sleep the night before. Now granted, I’m in 7 weeks now but I would think that’s long enough to where if I was going to have issues, that I would have by now right?

It’s been all just a gradual increase for me. Now that’s not to say I won’t have other issues pop up later on if something else gets out of whack, but if I don’t change anything and the rest of my body stays healthy it really shouldn’t?

Are you planning on running any blasts after a year or so? I’m just saying that once you let the genie out of the bottle, its hard to put her back in, and that’s also where guys can start throwing all kinds of shit in the mix.

Agree.

The “starting protocol” on this website use to have people smashing their E2 before they even knew if they needed one.

I stated the obvious, that it was stupid to start TRT WITH an AI, and it would be better to try it at first to SEE if you even need one.

I was told by another “senior” well respected member that “that information doesn’t matter”. Meaning, that he didn’t think finding out if you needed an AI was relevant, you should just use one.

Lost lots of respect for that person, just with that response. So stupid.

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I hear ya. I was thinking about maybe some day, but the more reading I do the more I am hesitant to go that route. I think I’d be happy with my maximum natural potential and just staying at a point where I feel good.

image

There’s good and then there’s “I feel like a teenager but with wisdom and money of a 50 year old!” :joy:

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Lmao! I can’t argue with that!

If I did ever did do a blast, I would probably walk up my current dose from 50mg E3.5D to somewhere around 60mg for about 4 weeks and see how I felt. Then go up to 100mg E3.5D if I didn’t have any issues for around 8 weeks and then walk it back down in reverse. Wouldn’t go crazy high. I see no real reason to push it and I don’t like fixing things that aren’t broken.

Physio advised me no point to blast if not body building.

I need stability.

I am tempted with the extra t. But I continue to resist the urge. I may just up it a bit here and there or lower

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I can see I’m dealing with a responsible adult here…you are ruining my Friday at the office!

Gotta try Tren just once to say you did. LOL

Damn! Sorry brother. Far be it from me to put a damper on a perfectly Good Friday! Let’s meet after work and have a few shots of shark piss, inject a few grams of tren and go blow the gym up!! Lmao

Understood. However, I’ve come to realize in the past couple of years that TRT (at a high cruise dose) has made (or allowed) me to become more of the guy that sits in my brain telling me to do all the things I used to be afraid to try because my whole life people told me to not cause a stir, dont cause trouble, dont rock the boat, etc.

Now you’re talking. :joy:

And fuck all night with 1 gram of Viagra

I like girls Charlie LOL

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