T Nation

Most Complimentary Styles?

In your opinion, which two fighting styles compliment each other best?

One of them being striking and another being a grappling/ground game.

I’m biased.

Boxing, kyokushin and wrestling covers all the bases imo.

I think as long as one is a striking art and the other a grappling one, you’ll find that they all compliment each other.

But, if you’re talking MMA, Muay Thai and BJJ.

If you’re talking arts to be used for self defense, boxing and wrestling.

solid boxing with training in executing leg kicks and teeps, combined with Greco-Roman wrestling. Boxing will give you the hand speed and ability to move/ the kicking skills will allow you to set up some punches and vice versa (jab/cross/leg kick) / and the Greco will allow you to control someone’s body if you get within clinch range and a solid base in takedowns and takedown defense (and the ability to suplex people on their heads)

i think that there are two combinations:

the boxer-wrestler, and the Thai-BJJ fighter.

i think BJJ complements a kicker, since they’re not afraid of going to their back (Donald Cerrone?), and the boxer-wrestler works well because the boxing doesn’t detract from the wrestler’s ability to take the fight to the ground…

I like what Im reading so far. Im asking this question with MMA in mind, but I wouldnt mind hearing what everyone thinks about which are best for self defense.

What does everyone think about those MMA classes that teach everything all at once? Or should a true MMArtist train them all separately?

I personally think that Boxing and Judo compliment eachother as a self defence skillset. I find in this new MMA age explosion, Judo has been vastly underrated in comparison to BJJ.

As for MMA… Just do everything that works. And do it well.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I think as long as one is a striking art and the other a grappling one, you’ll find that they all compliment each other.

But, if you’re talking MMA, Muay Thai and BJJ.

If you’re talking arts to be used for self defense, boxing and wrestling.[/quote]

Irish, you have to give us others some time to answer as well. You know, it’s getting boring to do this, but:

X2

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
I find in this new MMA age explosion, Judo has been vastly underrated in comparison to BJJ.[/quote]

I disagree. Although Ne-Waza is ok in Judo, it’s pretty limited (only elbow locks) and very Gi oriented when compared to Judo. I’m no grappling expert of any kind, but having done some JUdo, some BJJ and some Sambo, I find Judo the most limited style. Also, pinning techniques won’t win a MMA fight.

As for Tachi-Waza… One of my students has been fighting Judo championships for 8 years and was pretty good at it. When it comes to downing my pure standup-guys, however, those throws don’t work out too good. In most cases, when someone goes down, it’s either a leg takedown or something like Ko-soto-gake. The more fancy ones just don’t happen. That’s only (very limited) personal experience, so again, maybe it all works. Just haven’t seen it doing so yet.

[quote]FirestormWarrior wrote:

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
I find in this new MMA age explosion, Judo has been vastly underrated in comparison to BJJ.[/quote]

I disagree. Although Ne-Waza is ok in Judo, it’s pretty limited (only elbow locks) and very Gi oriented when compared to Judo. I’m no grappling expert of any kind, but having done some JUdo, some BJJ and some Sambo, I find Judo the most limited style. Also, pinning techniques won’t win a MMA fight.

As for Tachi-Waza… One of my students has been fighting Judo championships for 8 years and was pretty good at it. When it comes to downing my pure standup-guys, however, those throws don’t work out too good. In most cases, when someone goes down, it’s either a leg takedown or something like Ko-soto-gake. The more fancy ones just don’t happen. That’s only (very limited) personal experience, so again, maybe it all works. Just haven’t seen it doing so yet.
[/quote]

I may have misinterpreted it, but I believe that Aussie Davo’s statment on judo was in relation to self defense, not particularly MMA.

In a self defense situation, gi training is ok because odds are the other person will be wearing clothing. And that’s why I like Judo as a self-defense art as opposed to BJJ for grappling- Judo concentrates more on takedowns instead of groundfighting, which can be very dangerous or impossible depending on the situation.

I have no experience in judo, but once my shoulder is fixed up I might look into it. It’s always impressed me as an art.

[quote]FirestormWarrior wrote:

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
I find in this new MMA age explosion, Judo has been vastly underrated in comparison to BJJ.[/quote]

I disagree. Although Ne-Waza is ok in Judo, it’s pretty limited (only elbow locks) and very Gi oriented when compared to Judo. I’m no grappling expert of any kind, but having done some JUdo, some BJJ and some Sambo, I find Judo the most limited style. Also, pinning techniques won’t win a MMA fight.

As for Tachi-Waza… One of my students has been fighting Judo championships for 8 years and was pretty good at it. When it comes to downing my pure standup-guys, however, those throws don’t work out too good. In most cases, when someone goes down, it’s either a leg takedown or something like Ko-soto-gake. The more fancy ones just don’t happen. That’s only (very limited) personal experience, so again, maybe it all works. Just haven’t seen it doing so yet.
[/quote]

Ill smile and just say go to a better Judo school.

Judo teaches better posture then BJJ a Good Judo player, will be more balanced
in Newazza-and have fine sub and sub defense skills.
As far as Never seeing Big wheels- Ill smile again and say play better Judo.
Big throws work in Gi and No Gi but its all about the operator

In MMA- in japan youll see judo + kick box, Brazil youll see BJJ + thai boxing,
and in the west youll see wrestling+boxing, pretty common combo’s
and naturally all of these are not that black and white are hybrids and flexible.

In self defense I would say judo/wrestling and boxing vs most stuff,
kicks are largely ineffective in a brawl and most “ground work” in a Fight ends up
being a stomp party.

another thing is what is your body/atheletic make up like?
are you tall and lanky short and stocky- that is going to dictate a bit of what
you might be the most effective at.

I would have to say Shalin Kung Fu and Aikido. Though you might risk getting DQed in your MMA fights for accidentally killing people.

[quote]Muscles297 wrote:
What does everyone think about those MMA classes that teach everything all at once? Or should a true MMArtist train them all separately? [/quote]

I think that schools of thought(and actual camps) that train the basics(not all the “fancy” stuff) separately BUT combine all into a MMA “system” are a step ahead of everyone else that still trains everything separately.

Now this doesn’t include those schools who just throw their 15min. of striking in with their wrestling,No-Gi,etc and call it “MMA class.” I’m talking about a well thought out system. You can’t half-ass wrestling/BJJ/Boxing/Muay Thai and expect to be a beast at all. There has to be some methodology to putting it all together. There has to be a way to get proficient in all basics from each individual art. Then fine-tune from there.

Training all separately is not bad…but what happens when you have a guy who’s doing that…then when it comes time for actual MMA fight,he can’t put none of those things together and transition(smoothly) from one aspect to another. Is it the fighter?..the trainer(system of training)? or both?

Granted he can get away with that when matched up against someone who has weak areas that compliment his strengths(which accounts for 90-95% of MMA fights now). But what if this fighter is about to face GSP…or Fedor…Faber…etc…etc…?? Those guys have something in common that truly embodies what MMA is supposed to be.

The sport is so young,that I think people(trainers) are just now truly understanding what MMA really means. I envy the younger generation of MMA fighters. They most likely will be training in true MMA “systems”…and only concentrating on the separate aspects to “fine-tune” for their specific need at that particular moment in time.

BUT…pump my breaks for a minute if a person is breaking into MMA training with no “base” I think they should find one aspect and train it till the wheels fall off…i.e. concentrate on just wrestling/boxing…or BJJ for at least 2 years,imo.

I still keep in mind XenNova’s similar rant about this subject…he needs to speak on this.

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
I would have to say Shalin Kung Fu and Aikido. Though you might risk getting DQed in your MMA fights for accidentally killing people.[/quote]

I don’t think shaolin kung fu in itself is very impressive.
It’s the people who practice it since the age of five and train 8 hours a day, every day that are impressive.

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
I would have to say Shalin Kung Fu and Aikido. Though you might risk getting DQed in your MMA fights for accidentally killing people.[/quote]

I don’t think shaolin kung fu in itself is very impressive.
It’s the people who practice it since the age of five and train 8 hours a day, every day that are impressive.
[/quote]

I think your sarcasm detector is broken. :wink:

There are tons of fighters with different combos that don’t fit into aything you guys just stated. Striking,and grappling for mma. In a “street fight” just bring some pepper spray.

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]Muscles297 wrote:
What does everyone think about those MMA classes that teach everything all at once? Or should a true MMArtist train them all separately? [/quote]

I think that schools of thought(and actual camps) that train the basics(not all the “fancy” stuff) separately BUT combine all into a MMA “system” are a step ahead of everyone else that still trains everything separately.

Now this doesn’t include those schools who just throw their 15min. of striking in with their wrestling,No-Gi,etc and call it “MMA class.” I’m talking about a well thought out system. You can’t half-ass wrestling/BJJ/Boxing/Muay Thai and expect to be a beast at all. There has to be some methodology to putting it all together. There has to be a way to get proficient in all basics from each individual art. Then fine-tune from there.

Training all separately is not bad…but what happens when you have a guy who’s doing that…then when it comes time for actual MMA fight,he can’t put none of those things together and transition(smoothly) from one aspect to another. Is it the fighter?..the trainer(system of training)? or both?

Granted he can get away with that when matched up against someone who has weak areas that compliment his strengths(which accounts for 90-95% of MMA fights now). But what if this fighter is about to face GSP…or Fedor…Faber…etc…etc…?? Those guys have something in common that truly embodies what MMA is supposed to be.

The sport is so young,that I think people(trainers) are just now truly understanding what MMA really means. I envy the younger generation of MMA fighters. They most likely will be training in true MMA “systems”…and only concentrating on the separate aspects to “fine-tune” for their specific need at that particular moment in time.

BUT…pump my breaks for a minute if a person is breaking into MMA training with no “base” I think they should find one aspect and train it till the wheels fall off…i.e. concentrate on just wrestling/boxing…or BJJ for at least 2 years,imo.

I still keep in mind XenNova’s similar rant about this subject…he needs to speak on this. [/quote]

gah. ima hop on BB’s nuts for a sec and x2

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
I would have to say Shalin Kung Fu and Aikido. Though you might risk getting DQed in your MMA fights for accidentally killing people.[/quote]

I don’t think shaolin kung fu in itself is very impressive.
It’s the people who practice it since the age of five and train 8 hours a day, every day that are impressive.
[/quote]

I think your sarcasm detector is broken. ;)[/quote]

Kung Fu is totally under-rated these days, especially in the US, probably because of the combination the Mc Dojo, and it not being a favorite of the MMA crowd for a variety of reasons (the gloves interfere with a lot of the moves, and it is designed to kill, not earn points being two of them). I know a couple of real tough-shit Kung Fu guys who do very old-school, full contact training, and the speed and power they generate in amazing. And they really learn how to take a punch.

That said, stand-up fighting in the real world is about generating a ton of power, and making contract without getting hit, and most old-school styles, taught seriously, teach it well. My vote would be either a traditional kick-your-ass Shotokan, or Mui Thai for stand up, and Judo or Jujitsu on the ground.

The biggest problem with boxing, as I see it, isn’t that you can’t generate the power to knock someone out with just boxing technique, but that people tend to be able to better predict what they know, and if what you know is hands/leg movement (not kicks/knees), you’re less likely to get that auto-reaction going to deal with it. Just like the best way to kick-ass in a low-level Tae Kwon Doe tournament (hell, probably most Tae Kwon Doe) is to get in close and hammer away with boxing, because 99% of Tae Kwon Doers will be way outside their comfort zone when they can’t throw high/long kicks.

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
The biggest problem with boxing, as I see it, isn’t that you can’t generate the power to knock someone out with just boxing technique, but that people tend to be able to better predict what they know, and if what you know is hands/leg movement (not kicks/knees), you’re less likely to get that auto-reaction going to deal with it. [/quote]

uuhhhh… what the fuck does this mean?

And you can’t knock someone out with boxing technique? really? My balls must be showing on this one.

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]Muscles297 wrote:
What does everyone think about those MMA classes that teach everything all at once? Or should a true MMArtist train them all separately? [/quote]

I think that schools of thought(and actual camps) that train the basics(not all the “fancy” stuff) separately BUT combine all into a MMA “system” are a step ahead of everyone else that still trains everything separately.

Now this doesn’t include those schools who just throw their 15min. of striking in with their wrestling,No-Gi,etc and call it “MMA class.” I’m talking about a well thought out system. You can’t half-ass wrestling/BJJ/Boxing/Muay Thai and expect to be a beast at all. There has to be some methodology to putting it all together. There has to be a way to get proficient in all basics from each individual art. Then fine-tune from there.

Training all separately is not bad…but what happens when you have a guy who’s doing that…then when it comes time for actual MMA fight,he can’t put none of those things together and transition(smoothly) from one aspect to another. Is it the fighter?..the trainer(system of training)? or both?

Granted he can get away with that when matched up against someone who has weak areas that compliment his strengths(which accounts for 90-95% of MMA fights now). But what if this fighter is about to face GSP…or Fedor…Faber…etc…etc…?? Those guys have something in common that truly embodies what MMA is supposed to be.

The sport is so young,that I think people(trainers) are just now truly understanding what MMA really means. I envy the younger generation of MMA fighters. They most likely will be training in true MMA “systems”…and only concentrating on the separate aspects to “fine-tune” for their specific need at that particular moment in time.

BUT…pump my breaks for a minute if a person is breaking into MMA training with no “base” I think they should find one aspect and train it till the wheels fall off…i.e. concentrate on just wrestling/boxing…or BJJ for at least 2 years,imo.

I still keep in mind XenNova’s similar rant about this subject…he needs to speak on this. [/quote]

gah. ima hop on BB’s nuts for a sec and x2[/quote]

I appreciate that,Mac…now go ahead and jump on Bevo’s nuts :stuck_out_tongue: