T Nation

More Test Needed When Taken Subcutaneously


#1

Has anyone found that they needed more testosterone cypionate when injecting it sub-q. I usually am around 600-700 with 100mg per week in divided doses injecting intramuscular. I have been doing the sub-q route for over eight months and results today came back at 372 forty eight hours after the last subq injection of 40mg. I am injecting 40mg every third day and using aromasin as needed. E-2 came back at 8.7 on a range of 8.0-35 so evidentially I over respond to it the same as arimidex.

For the last few weeks I have been using 6.25 of aromasin once or twice a week. I also received labs for TSH after reducing dosage from 13/4 grain nature throid to 11/2 grain. On 13/4 TSH went too low at .198 and now that I'm back on 1.5 grains TSH has climbed back to 3.91. Since there isn't a dose between these I plan to take 1/2 of each dosage daily and retest in 6 weeks.


#2

Were those 6-700 values from labs drawn in the few months after commencing TRT?


#3

I've been taking injections for years but just recently started self injecting when insurance would no longer cover them in the doctors office. I used hcg when my insurance covered it and learned to self inject that so it was a good gateway for injecting the testosterone intramuscular. I've done 1-3 injections per week to try and control my fluctuations in e-2 and switched to subq because it's easy and painless. I think I will try mixing subq and intramuscular and retest when I have my TSH checked again in 6 weeks. Back to square one again with testosterone,e2 and TSH. At least now I have aromasin as an alternative to arimidex.


#4

I noticed just bumping up the test just a little bit makes a big difference. Every 14mg per week increase, increased my total test 300 +
112mg got me to 585 total test.
126mg got me to 914 total test.
140mg got me to 1228 total test.

If you are doing 40mg e3d, (40 + 3 x 7) that's only 93mg a week.
Try bumping it up to 46mg e3d, which is 107mg per week.
Or, perhaps try 48mg e3d which is 112 per week.
Or even, 50e3d that would get you to 116mg per week.


#5

With Dr injected 100mg/week, where were the labs done that yielded 600-700?

You are changing thyroid meds. Many feel good pushing TSH to near zero. You can also use body temperatures to eval your dose. fT3 is what you should be watching, not TSH. See the Thyroid Basics Explained topic linked in the 2nd post of the one sticky in this forum.

With am insulin syringe, IM to top of your leg is easy. Muscle does not feel the needle. Veins do!


#6

Here are my latest lab results injecting 40mg subq, 6.25 aromasin per week and taking 11/2 grain nature throid daily in split dosages. Note labs done 48 hours after injection and 24 hours after last aromasin dose of 6.25mg.

Total test 372 range 348-1197
Free test 16.7 range 6.8-21.5
Estradiol sensitive 8.7 range 8.0-35
Estrone 91 range 12-72
Total estrogen 54 range 40-115
Cortisol 16.9 range 6.2-19.4 8:30am
Prolactin 13.5 range 4.0-15.2
Vitamin d 25 hydroxy 20.7 range 30-100
HCT 47.4
Hemoglobin 15.8
TSH 3.91 range .45-4.50
T3 free 2.41 range 1.81-4.06
T4 free direct .89 range .82-1.77
Thyroxine (T4) 6.0 range 4.5-12
T3 uptake 28 range 24-39
Free thyroxine index 1.7 range 1.2-4.9
Triiodothyronine (T3) 121 range 71-180
Did not check SHBG but normally stays around 17-18 which probably explains normal free testosterone.


#7


#8

Thyroid: Deeply under medicated. Check body temperatures.

You can try IM T injections as suggested. But as it is now, you appear to be a hyper metabolizer of T and such guys typically need around 300mg T per week.

You should reduce aromasin. But the low E2 is also a result of low T numbers.
Competitive drug anastrozole has a very linear dose response. Not sure how aromasin behaves. But a linear dose change would be best guess.

Please confirm that T is 200mg/ml and not 100mg/ml.

Take 5,000iu Vit-D3 per day. Front load with 25,000iu for 5 days.

There is talk about diet and inflammation with high estrone [E1] levels, via effects on the liver. I can't wrap my brain around all of that. But this takes us back to your medical history and other health/diet issues.

You can find things which raise a concern that perhaps Aromasin might be the problem. A quick literature review indicates that Aromasin should be lowering estrone. That puts the focus back on reduced liver clearance of estrone in the liver and whatever might be leading to that.

It would be worth doing IM injections to see if SC is part of this. Perhaps something odd is happening in the skin/fat tissues.


#9

Thank you KSman, the cypionate is 200mg per ml.