T Nation

More on the War on Drugs

coming to America soon

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gMi5B2USfJStXxfqgWWr2xjRYpOgD9H0SCQ80

All these regulations are fucking with the free market, if only they would open the borders and de-regulate, we would see an increase in quality and a decrease in prices.

*Sniff

(Passes out on keyboard)

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
coming to America soon

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gMi5B2USfJStXxfqgWWr2xjRYpOgD9H0SCQ80

[/quote]

I fear you are right. Many will say it has already begun.

We should legalize now before it looks like capitulating to narco-terrorists.

ALL of those mexican drugs are headed for the US or mexican resort towns like Cabo. Repeal prohibition in the US, allow it to be grown in the US, huge tarriffs on imported narcotics, and voila – goodbye drug profits obregon gang. Find another game.

restrict use to private residences. Institute ass raping penalties for DUI.

Free up the courts system, reduce jail overcrowding.

you could still drug test employees though.

The Democratic Nominee for Gov. is very pro drug war , as is the front runner for AG and County prosecutor . My fear is if our government ever really comes down on the cartels , they will respond appropriately

We agree

This is my issue with the end the War on Drugs, and you all have very good arguments. By using your arguments, what should we legalize next, sex slave trafficing from Europe and 3rd world countries? Sex Slaves are so expensive because it is illegal. They are so expensive because there just is not enough of them out there.

We should allow women to be kidnapped at random, and allowed to be put on every street corner and it should be legalized. Maybe we should allow Baby farms here in the US, where women are born just to have sex with. Come on guys. Say no to drugs.

Drugs are bad ok. (Think SouthPark)

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
This is my issue with the end the War on Drugs, and you all have very good arguments. By using your arguments, what should we legalize next, sex slave trafficing from Europe and 3rd world countries? Sex Slaves are so expensive because it is illegal. They are so expensive because there just is not enough of them out there.

We should allow women to be kidnapped at random, and allowed to be put on every street corner and it should be legalized. Maybe we should allow Baby farms here in the US, where women are born just to have sex with. Come on guys. Say no to drugs.

Drugs are bad ok. (Think SouthPark)[/quote]

I do not think slavery should be legal , but I think prostitution should be legal

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
This is my issue with the end the War on Drugs, and you all have very good arguments. By using your arguments, what should we legalize next, sex slave trafficing from Europe and 3rd world countries? Sex Slaves are so expensive because it is illegal. They are so expensive because there just is not enough of them out there.

We should allow women to be kidnapped at random, and allowed to be put on every street corner and it should be legalized. Maybe we should allow Baby farms here in the US, where women are born just to have sex with. Come on guys. Say no to drugs.

Drugs are bad ok. (Think SouthPark)[/quote]

Slavery and sexual slavery are crimes perpetrated by a person against another person
Purchasing drugs is an economic transaction
taking drugs is a personal choice that can, admittedly, have very bad consequences.

I’m for the legalization and regulation of prostitution also btw. Maybe that would reduce demand for sexual slavery. AND end the existence of violent/rapist/drug pusher pimps.

As some of you may know, I am a police officer. And I’ve been all for the legalization of certain drugs for a LONG time…particularly marijuana.

Trying to enforce some of the laws on the books right now is utter foolishness. The legalization of marijuana would, in all likelihood, have an enormous, positive impact on the US economy. Further, let’s get real here…it’s just weed. Who cares? Smoke to your heart’s content, for all I care.

One argument I often pose is this…if alcohol were either invented or discovered right now, today, there is absolutely NO WAY that it would be available to the public. It would be a controlled substance…no question about it. Yet, we allow it to be sold every day, all over the country, and I would venture to say it’s impact on society is far worse than marijuana’s ever would be.

As for the harder drugs (cocaine, heroin, etc)…set up clinics in major cities and GIVE it away. As much as they want, for free. Only condition…you have to use it on the premises. Can’t leave til you’re sober. Within six months, all of your hardcore heroin users would be dead. The majority of cocaine users would be also. BUT…the benefit is that people wouldn’t have to rob and steal to support their habits. If you give it away, there’s no need.

It may seem a little heartless to allow them to die from their habits but let’s face facts here…nobody put a gun to their heads and forced them to start. If they want to clean up, make that option available too.

The main thing is, take away the economic benfits to dealing drugs, and it goes away.

[quote]mapwhap wrote:
As some of you may know, I am a police officer. And I’ve been all for the legalization of certain drugs for a LONG time…particularly marijuana.

Trying to enforce some of the laws on the books right now is utter foolishness. The legalization of marijuana would, in all likelihood, have an enormous, positive impact on the US economy. Further, let’s get real here…it’s just weed. Who cares? Smoke to your heart’s content, for all I care.

One argument I often pose is this…if alcohol were either invented or discovered right now, today, there is absolutely NO WAY that it would be available to the public. It would be a controlled substance…no question about it. Yet, we allow it to be sold every day, all over the country, and I would venture to say it’s impact on society is far worse than marijuana’s ever would be.

As for the harder drugs (cocaine, heroin, etc)…set up clinics in major cities and GIVE it away. As much as they want, for free. Only condition…you have to use it on the premises. Can’t leave til you’re sober. Within six months, all of your hardcore heroin users would be dead. The majority of cocaine users would be also. BUT…the benefit is that people wouldn’t have to rob and steal to support their habits. If you give it away, there’s no need.

It may seem a little heartless to allow them to die from their habits but let’s face facts here…nobody put a gun to their heads and forced them to start. If they want to clean up, make that option available too.

The main thing is, take away the economic benfits to dealing drugs, and it goes away. [/quote]

Good post, you may be interested in

http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php

[quote]mapwhap wrote:

As for the harder drugs (cocaine, heroin, etc)…set up clinics in major cities and GIVE it away. As much as they want, for free. Only condition…you have to use it on the premises. Can’t leave til you’re sober. Within six months, all of your hardcore heroin users would be dead. The majority of cocaine users would be also. BUT…the benefit is that people wouldn’t have to rob and steal to support their habits. If you give it away, there’s no need.

It may seem a little heartless to allow them to die from their habits but let’s face facts here…nobody put a gun to their heads and forced them to start. If they want to clean up, make that option available too.

The main thing is, take away the economic benfits to dealing drugs, and it goes away. [/quote]

Give it away for free with the end goal of killing 50% of them? That almost rings of genocide.

When drugs are legalized and these people no longer have to live in near-outlaw conditions, why would they steal? It’s not the drug but the law itself that prevents narc-users from being functional in society.

Let them buy whatever they want, let them use however they want, and let’s all get along with our own goals.

^^

Uh…no.

The end goal is not genocide. That’s a side effect of the choices they make for themselves.

As long as they have to pay for drugs, they will steal. They aren’t going to be able to function in a normal society (ie; have a job, etc) at a certain point. After that, if they are still being charged for narcotics, they will steal to meet their habits. They don’t steal cos they live in “near outlaw conditions”. They steal to make money to pay for drugs.

Obviously, you have no real world experience with narcotics users. Try getting out from behind a desk and seeing how the real world works.

Genocide…whatever! You’re a moron. Try deploying to a third world country and actually seeing that word being used in practice before you start throwing it around so casually.

[quote]mapwhap wrote:
^^

Uh…no.

The end goal is not genocide. That’s a side effect of the choices they make for themselves.

As long as they have to pay for drugs, they will steal. They aren’t going to be able to function in a normal society (ie; have a job, etc) at a certain point. After that, if they are still being charged for narcotics, they will steal to meet their habits. They don’t steal cos they live in “near outlaw conditions”. They steal to make money to pay for drugs.

Obviously, you have no real world experience with narcotics users. Try getting out from behind a desk and seeing how the real world works.

Genocide…whatever! You’re a moron. Try deploying to a third world country and actually seeing that word being used in practice before you start throwing it around so casually.[/quote]

I don’t think it matters whether it is cheap or free, there would be a lot less crime if drugs were not 10 times the price of gold , I can not think of something that is more valuable than illegal drugs

[quote]mapwhap wrote:
^^

Uh…no.

The end goal is not genocide. That’s a side effect of the choices they make for themselves.

As long as they have to pay for drugs, they will steal. They aren’t going to be able to function in a normal society (ie; have a job, etc) at a certain point. After that, if they are still being charged for narcotics, they will steal to meet their habits. They don’t steal cos they live in “near outlaw conditions”. They steal to make money to pay for drugs.

Obviously, you have no real world experience with narcotics users. Try getting out from behind a desk and seeing how the real world works.

Genocide…whatever! You’re a moron. Try deploying to a third world country and actually seeing that word being used in practice before you start throwing it around so casually.[/quote]

According to the Feds 75% of all illegal drug users are employed

Premise of the War on Drugs: Hey guys, let’s decrease supply without decreasing demand. What could possibly go wrong?

This is why there are criminal billionaires.

I do think more people will do drugs if they are legal, however. Whether this will be a significant number of people is unknown.

Ok…let me reframe my initial point, since we seem to be devolving into silliness here.

My original statement was that within six months most of your hardcore heroin users would be dead, and the same for the majority of hardcore cocaine users.

The key part of the phrase here was the word “hardcore”. Regardless of what the Feds have to say, I doubt anyone could seriously make the argument that a hardcore heroin or cocaine user is a functioning, employed member of society.

Granted, it’s difficult to define “hardcore”, but you can generally track a person’s downward spiral to the point where they cross the line to fit even the broadest definition. I would venture to say that if you were to supply a person like that with all the heroin or cocaine they want, that they would eventually die from it. I don’t think I’m making too far of a leap, there.

In any case, the point of my posts has been this: if we were to eliminate the ability to make a ton of illicit cash from the dealing of illegal drugs, the problem goes away. Nobody is going to make the kind of profits to sustain an entire country if there are places where the stuff is being GIVEN away, for FREE. It’s simple economics. People aren’t (generally) going to buy something they can get for free…especially if there are no negative consequences.

Ergo, no need to rob someone for cash, empty your kid’s college fund, burglarize a home to go pawn someone else’s stereo, or to go to war over a street corner as prime selling real estate. When the ability to turn a profit disappears, so does the crime and violence that goes with it.

A side benefit, I suppose, is that the legalization of drugs would remove the social stigma of being a drug abuser…but that isn’t my primary concern.

[quote]Rocky101 wrote:

[quote]mapwhap wrote:
^^

Uh…no.

The end goal is not genocide. That’s a side effect of the choices they make for themselves.

As long as they have to pay for drugs, they will steal. They aren’t going to be able to function in a normal society (ie; have a job, etc) at a certain point. After that, if they are still being charged for narcotics, they will steal to meet their habits. They don’t steal cos they live in “near outlaw conditions”. They steal to make money to pay for drugs.

Obviously, you have no real world experience with narcotics users. Try getting out from behind a desk and seeing how the real world works.

Genocide…whatever! You’re a moron. Try deploying to a third world country and actually seeing that word being used in practice before you start throwing it around so casually.[/quote]

According to the Feds 75% of all illegal drug users are employed[/quote]

I believe there are a lot of functioning addicts

[quote]mapwhap wrote:
^^

Uh…no.

The end goal is not genocide. That’s a side effect of the choices they make for themselves.

As long as they have to pay for drugs, they will steal. They aren’t going to be able to function in a normal society (ie; have a job, etc) at a certain point. After that, if they are still being charged for narcotics, they will steal to meet their habits. They don’t steal cos they live in “near outlaw conditions”. They steal to make money to pay for drugs.

Obviously, you have no real world experience with narcotics users. Try getting out from behind a desk and seeing how the real world works.

Genocide…whatever! You’re a moron. Try deploying to a third world country and actually seeing that word being used in practice before you start throwing it around so casually.[/quote]

I work as an orderly at a psychiatric/rehab center. I don’t have experience? Ha, fuck off. Nothing you say is going to impress or shock me into changing my mind because not only do I have experience from my job and my personal life, I have done actual research into the topic.

You missed my point about outlaw conditions. You’re saying that if society viewed drug abuse like alcohol abuse, i.e. tolerantly, the average abuser would still steal? When he doesn’t have to? If he were given the opportunity to have a job and keep it due to lessened drug regulation? Please. This would largely reduce the crime element here.

I would say your idea is a form of “purposeful elimination” then, if you want to play your silly language games, because enabling with malicious intent still qualifies as morally unsound. Sorry my non-technical use of ‘genocide’ made you get upset.

Wow!! An orderly? That definitely qualifies you as an expert on the subject then!!! I’m sure your experience changing sheets and emptying bedpans gives you some real insight into drug addiction issues.

You’ve done some actual research into the subject? Really? You know what that tells me? That you sat around and read a bunch of books and studies to justify your position. Sorry pal…“research” ain’t real wold experience. I know you academic types like to think so, but it isn’t.

I’ll clarify one more time for you, since you’re clearly a little dull. I’ll make sure I type slowly so you can follow along.

What I suggested, braniac, was that they have unlimited ACCESS to the drugs they want. I never said to de-criminalize the use of hard narcotics on the street. The difference is that I don’t feel sorry for people who are addicted to narcotics…it’s their own fault they are on it. It’s not my fault, not society’s fault, not anybody’s fault but THEIR OWN. So, if they lack the ability to contol their urges to the point where it kills them, then so what?

According to most of the other posters here, there are a large number of functioning addicts in the world. So, obviously, it isn’t going to kill a whole bunch of them, and giving it to them where they can’t hurt anyone else serves the dual purpose of keeping them off the streets when they are high, and entirely destroying the profit margins currently enjoyed by criminals.

And nobody is playing “silly language games” here, you fucking douchebag. Genocide is the total elimination of entire populations off the face of the planet. It’s killing men, women and especially children for the purpose of destroying any evidence that a group of people ever existed. It’s incredibly brutal, and beyond disgusting to witness in any form. Maybe you should try doing something useful with your life, and deploying to a war zone where something like that has happened. You damn sure wouldn’t use the term like it was something to be made fun of.

Better yet, since you’re obviously far too important to society to risk your neck doing something dangerous like that…why don’t you just research it?

man I feel all warm and fuzzy:)

giving it away for free. Thats interesting but every proposal I have heard advocates selling it at reasonable prices (I guess market driven) and putting the profits or tax revenue to treatment.

Profits if its government run, and tax revenue if its private enterprise I guess.