T Nation

More Fun Violations of Liberty



Due process I hardly knew ye!



Traffic tickets and parking tickets are highway robbery.


I'm not sure what parking is like in the US, in the UK the local governments sell off all the car parks, and then start hammering people with parking tickets, under the ruse of encouraging people not to use their cars.


What would happen if everyone in the country refused to pay imposed parking fines?


ron paul would commend you. After all, it isn't in the Constitution.

Oh, unless ron paul says it is.



This is using the police power of the state to generate revenue and that is morally and constitutionally wrong! It is an end run around the 4th amendment. Now it might seem like a little issue, not a federal case, right? Well what happens when the cities and states start realizing they need more cash? They are going to look at statues like this and think well we are already doing this so why not take it a step further, after all we have the public's best interest at heart and we the officials know what is best. I tell you the truth, the threat to our liberty as citizens of the USA is not coming from the federal government so much as it is the local and state. They can and do pass laws and ordinances all the time that are highly suspect and costly to the citizens they govern. Because these laws cost the taxpayer "only money" and don't violate the politically popular parts of the bill of rights (1st mainly) rarely are these local officials called to task on their poor governance and that just encourages them more!

Every one of the bill of rights is critical to our survival as a nation just as the right to not be subject to unfair taxation and levies under the guise of punishment for minor legal infractions. Or I should say yes they can charge all they want but they can't take away the right of the citizen to appeal and reverse the fine just cause the city needs the money!


This is exactly right. The police department should not be involved in revenue generation - asset seizures should be disallowed Constitutionally, and any sort of quota on tickets should be similarly banned.


Indeed. When the men with the guns need money, who are we to argue?



Funny, Jeff, but harsh.

Due process, at least for me is kind of a big deal. Today it's "just" parking tickets, but at what point does it impose on our freedom?
When it's "just" open containers?
Or "just" possesion of controlled substances?
Or "just" carrying an unregistered firearm?

American Justice system
minus Due Process
minus Habeus Corpus

equals = ?????????


The answer is tyranny but Jeffy has already signed his life over to the State so don't try and explain the ideas of liberty to him; it would just mess him up. He only understands armed authority.

On a more serious note, people don't understand that there is no relative interpretation to the constitution. It is a contract that must be precisely defined in order to be understood. Every word must be taken literally as that is its intent. The language is clear if only slightly idiomatic to the time it was written; but it was the intent that the contract would be taken literally -- or why bother writing it and swear oaths to uphold and defend it.

If its just a piece of paper then it doesn't mean anything and the government can do anything it wants. That contract precisely defines how the government is to operate and what it could and could not do. That document is a legally binding contract that must be upheld in order to be valid.

So either it is, or it isn't...and if it isn't there is only one solution...

I've posted "The Declaration of Independence" before on other threads but I think it bears repeating. That document is the real meat of this country.


You're a fucking proud advocate of communism and you are really going to sit and bitch about the government being too powerful NOW?

I know the answer to this, but it's worth repeating for people that may be new to the site: DID YOU MISS EVERYFUCKINGTHING THAT EVER HAPPENED UNDER COMMUNIST GOVERNMENTS?

How mis-wired do you have to be to an advocate of less government control and communism at the same time? To try to true up the Constitution of the USA and the communist manifesto? I mean, at some point, if you were to really think about it, would you actually blow a circuit breaker or something?

And while we're at it, who in 2008 looks at the dozens of millions murdered by communist governments, the brutal repressions, the decimations, the political mass murders, the gulags, the camps, the Tianemen Squares, the absolute destruction of nearly every single personal freedom, the repression of basic human rights, the mass starvings, the violent thought control which extended from writing all the way down to art, the destruction of the economy, the wars of communist revolution and all the theft and mayhem that ALWAYS resulted, and says "Gee, that looks like a good idea!" If you look at the numbers in terms of human death and suffering, a 2008 convert to nazism is about 10% the idiot that a communist in the 21st century is.


Ummm, feel free to back up how a fellow Marine is a commie? I have disagreed with a great deal of the stuff the man has said, but I never got the feeling that Lifty was a commie.



You must have missed his pro communism phase before he became a hardcore libertarian. It has been a very strange metamorphosis.


I have never advocated violence and I have never advocated for an oppressive government. So in fact it wasn't communism but rather communalism.

I did and still do advocate economic communal living where means are shared between people who have a common goal, in a voluntary manner. This may or may not be the most ideal society. I haven't decided, yet. It hinges on what would logically motivate someone to live this way. It does not preclude the notion of self interest.


Boston police officers will begin searching teenagers for firearms in their homes. Apparently, parents aren't to be trusted to do their jobs any longer.


In the next two weeks, Boston police officers who are assigned to schools will begin going to homes where they believe teenagers might have guns. The officers will travel in groups of three, dress in plainclothes to avoid attracting negative attention, and ask the teenager's parent or legal guardian for permission to search. If the parents say no, police said, the officers will leave.

So what? Mommy and Daddy say no and the cops walk away.

Waste of money and time? Yes. Violating liberty? No.


Baby steps Zap. Baby steps.



You are too paranoid about some of these things. Save your energy for the people that are truly out to get you and not the cops trying to stop 16 year olds from shooting each other.

This is a way for some cops to earn some OT before they pull the budget. This is not laying the groundwork for the gun grabbers. There are plenty of other things to be legitimately concerned about.

Don't be the boy that cries wolf.


exactly why gun control laws are abound and popping up all the time. im surprised at how many people dont realize this. land of the free err slaves


BTW Mike, I think your original link is a real concern and a violation of the Constitution. The Boston police link was not.