T Nation

More Drugs = More Muscle...

a perspective from an IFBB pro

im confident a lot of you guys aren’t going to want to hear this… but it’s the truth

anyways, here goes:

"This site was always set up as an advanced site, where you can find TRUTHFUL information about bodybuilding, not bulshit and ideology promoted by people who generally have agendas.

This is the truth:

If your diet, training, health and rest are completely up to scratch, the more steroids you take, the bigger you will get. It’s as simple as that.

Pros have got their diet, training (health for the most part) and rest up to a standard that works for them perfectly, but they are only the size they are due to the drugs they take. Don’t beleive the crap from anyone, that they are not, even from the ‘in the know’ people that are on this board. Those very same people for the most part have used/use extremely higher dosages than what they preach. Why do they preach the low dosages? - various personal agendas.

Reality is that as a rule, 1g per week of test non stop year round is the ‘off’ time for the pros. Gear is added as it’s obtained - no real detailed cycles as such. As long as they take the high dosages of gear, they’ll grow (as long as the diet, training, health and sleep is up to scratch as mentioned previously).

Several grams of test per week, several grams of anabolics per week, up to 2g/week of tren, a shit load of orals, insulin several times a day year round, GH as much as can be afforded - 15 to 30IU/day, etc.

BUT, pros have the genetics to have their bodies accept the gear, and generally not get sick on it.

And ancilliary use is huge - liver aids to the max, anti-e’s, dht blockers, cardio supps, cholesterol supps, etc.

Still, most of them are complete wrecks. They can’t control bodily functions,
they pass out from walking a flight of stairs, they get drenched in sweat from tying their shoelaces. Gyno, baldness, dry skin, gout, excess bodily hair, acne, etc are ALL existant in virtually all of them.

It is not a healthy sport, drug use is ENORMOUS, but to ignore it and to preach otherwise is pathetic and not what this site is about.

BTW, Synthetek’s books have on them who’s who of current pros ordering Syntherol constantly. They ALL use it extensively. It is pathetic though, when one orders a bottle and their credit card gets declined due to not enough funds. You think a 30+ yo would have his life in order more than that.

Anyway, I’m sick of seeing the bullshit that has been promoted on this site the last few years. This site was originally set up as an uncensored place where you can find the truth about advanced performance enhancing, regardless of consequences. It’s getting back to that."

As a non-user I can perfectly live with both scenarios (lower than expected dosages and ridiculous dosages). But I can see that someone who wants to get to actual pro status should know what is really going on.

Related topic: Since the financial aspect has been mentioned in that statement, is it possible to be able to explain some bad competition showings of some pros in the past by a failure to acquire enough pharma?

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
As a non-user I can perfectly live with both scenarios (lower than expected dosages and ridiculous dosages). But I can see that someone who wants to get to actual pro status should know what is really going on.

Related topic: Since the financial aspect has been mentioned in that statement, is it possible to be able to explain some bad competition showings of some pros in the past by a failure to acquire enough pharma? [/quote]

it’s entirely possible that competitions have been thrown off by a failure to acquire the necessary drugs, i doubt it happens with the big names though…

makes me wanna stay natty reading all that…

I’m confused…you used the quotations, indicating it is not your own personal thoughts, but didn’t ascribe a source. Was this an e-mail that you received from a BB buddy? Was he talking about this site, or another one? Was there a real point in this? I don’t think anyone is surprised that the pros are on a shitload of gear…

Read this before.

Seems pretty obvious just based on pictures over the years that obviously drugs/synthol etc are playing an ever bigger role.

Just look at the pics of Dallas Mc Carver at 21 - insanely massive. Is also something I’ve noticed in strongman there seem to many more younger guys at a high level and their bodyweights are fucking insane pretty much across the board. Back in the 90s this was much less the case guys like Ahola looked pretty normal, i think he was only around 240 and decent lean. Now a large number of guys compete at over 315 (obviously many are not that lean). I fhink the marketability of Pudzianowski had alot to do with this. Ahola’s 240 is now Poundstone’s 330 (and leaner than Ahola).

Good time to post this with the recent death of Duval - when you look at Mc Carver and that Arab guy who is a ripped 315lbs at 26 years old it looks like abuse is gonna get worse.

However, there is the flip side of this and Big A has been called a liar/ exagerrating and then the likes of Dorian massively downplay drugs (and are then called liars).

It is difficult to know what is the truth. My own belief is that it is an ever increasing abuse of drugs and this is shown in the size increase from 60s to now and the ever growing list of guys getting very ill/ dying as a result of this “sport.”

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I’m confused…you used the quotations, indicating it is not your own personal thoughts, but didn’t ascribe a source. Was this an e-mail that you received from a BB buddy? Was he talking about this site, or another one? Was there a real point in this? I don’t think anyone is surprised that the pros are on a shitload of gear…
[/quote]

the post is from the owner of another site.

I have seen OP post there an assume he thought this was relevant/ interesting.

The other site is heavily pro drugs so likely more of interest over there.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I’m confused…you used the quotations, indicating it is not your own personal thoughts, but didn’t ascribe a source. Was this an e-mail that you received from a BB buddy? Was he talking about this site, or another one? Was there a real point in this? I don’t think anyone is surprised that the pros are on a shitload of gear…
[/quote]

it was written by an IFBB pro on PM.

the point is, people often ascribe too much IFBB pro success to genetics… when it really isn’t the case. The only real genetic trait that is important here, is their bodies abilities to deal with all the drugs and not perish…

for example, ive run over a gram of tren a week with no negative side effects, mentally, physically, emotionally… and my bloods came back within range. That’s as far as genetics can go to help you (besides muscle shape, height/width of your frame, etc.)

just putting things in perspective for people who blame their genetics for their failures… it’s not their genetics necessarily at all, it’s their diets/training/drug regimens

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I’m confused…you used the quotations, indicating it is not your own personal thoughts, but didn’t ascribe a source. Was this an e-mail that you received from a BB buddy? Was he talking about this site, or another one? Was there a real point in this? I don’t think anyone is surprised that the pros are on a shitload of gear…
[/quote]

it was written by an IFBB pro on PM.

the point is, people often ascribe too much IFBB pro success to genetics… when it really isn’t the case. The only real genetic trait that is important here, is their bodies abilities to deal with all the drugs and not perish…

for example, ive run over a gram of tren a week with no negative side effects, mentally, physically, emotionally… and my bloods came back within range. That’s as far as genetics can go to help you (besides muscle shape, height/width of your frame, etc.)

just putting things in perspective for people who blame their genetics for their failures… it’s not their genetics necessarily at all, it’s their diets/training/drug regimens[/quote]

what is your height weight and age out of interest? do you have any BB goals?

over a gram of tren a week for no discernible reason other than to get in shape for an arbitrary deadline (not even a show) is pretty stupid. blood work is by no means the only barometer of health.

interested in your thoughts, you are one of the better posters here.

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I’m confused…you used the quotations, indicating it is not your own personal thoughts, but didn’t ascribe a source. Was this an e-mail that you received from a BB buddy? Was he talking about this site, or another one? Was there a real point in this? I don’t think anyone is surprised that the pros are on a shitload of gear…
[/quote]

it was written by an IFBB pro on PM.

the point is, people often ascribe too much IFBB pro success to genetics… when it really isn’t the case. The only real genetic trait that is important here, is their bodies abilities to deal with all the drugs and not perish…

for example, ive run over a gram of tren a week with no negative side effects, mentally, physically, emotionally… and my bloods came back within range. That’s as far as genetics can go to help you (besides muscle shape, height/width of your frame, etc.)

just putting things in perspective for people who blame their genetics for their failures… it’s not their genetics necessarily at all, it’s their diets/training/drug regimens[/quote]

what is your height weight and age out of interest? do you have any BB goals?

over a gram of tren a week for no discernible reason other than to get in shape for an arbitrary deadline (not even a show) is pretty stupid. blood work is by no means the only barometer of health.

interested in your thoughts, you are one of the better posters here.

yeah I read that thread, some big dudes over on PM. They run dosages that give me gyno just reading about it.

I still believe that genetics are the most important factor though. I don’t think that I could run a cycle like the guy’s over at PM run, with the 4g+ a week of AAS, slin, GH etc and expect to have a pro level physique. I’d be a shitload bigger than I am now, definitely, but I doubt I’d win any contests.

just my opinion but I still think that genetics are the limiting factor. If all it took to get a pro-level physique was a pro-size cycle, I think there’d be a lot more competitive level folk.

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
yeah I read that thread, some big dudes over on PM. They run dosages that give me gyno just reading about it.

I still believe that genetics are the most important factor though. I don’t think that I could run a cycle like the guy’s over at PM run, with the 4g+ a week of AAS, slin, GH etc and expect to have a pro level physique. I’d be a shitload bigger than I am now, definitely, but I doubt I’d win any contests.

just my opinion but I still think that genetics are the limiting factor. If all it took to get a pro-level physique was a pro-size cycle, I think there’d be a lot more competitive level folk.[/quote]

He’s saying the genetic involved aren’t necessarily the genetics that will allow you to put on muscle, but the ones that allow you to use that much AAS without dying.

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
If all it took to get a pro-level physique was a pro-size cycle, I think there’d be a lot more competitive level folk.[/quote]
Taking large amounts of drugs for years on end is a huge deal considering the money and time involved, along with the health and legal risks.

Regarding genetics, I think the whole “so and so has a great frame, full muscle bellies, and can pack on mass easy” is very overhyped. Guys like Jay Cutler, Branch Warren, and Markus Ruhl had pretty shitty shapes in many ways, yet still reached the top .1% or so of bodybuilding.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
yeah I read that thread, some big dudes over on PM. They run dosages that give me gyno just reading about it.

I still believe that genetics are the most important factor though. I don’t think that I could run a cycle like the guy’s over at PM run, with the 4g+ a week of AAS, slin, GH etc and expect to have a pro level physique. I’d be a shitload bigger than I am now, definitely, but I doubt I’d win any contests.

just my opinion but I still think that genetics are the limiting factor. If all it took to get a pro-level physique was a pro-size cycle, I think there’d be a lot more competitive level folk.[/quote]

He’s saying the genetic involved aren’t necessarily the genetics that will allow you to put on muscle, but the ones that allow you to use that much AAS without dying.[/quote]

yeah I get that, but I don’t actually agree. While I agree that the genetics to take that much AAS without it really fucking you up are very important, I still think the genetics as to how much muscle those drugs allow you to build (along with diet, training obvs) are more important.

I could be wrong, I often am, but that’s what I think. I doubt there’s much difference between what the pro’s use (obviously there’ll be a bit of individual variation with certain people preferring certain compounds but in the grand scheme of things I bet there’s more similarities than differences), but yet there’s different levels of physiques. I don’t think it’s explained by different drug protocols, I think it’s genetic predisposition towards muscle building (or lack of…)

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
Regarding genetics, I think the whole “so and so has a great frame, full muscle bellies, and can pack on mass easy” is very overhyped. Guys like Jay Cutler, Branch Warren, and Markus Ruhl had pretty shitty shapes in many ways, yet still reached the top .1% or so of bodybuilding.[/quote]

have you seen the pictures of Jay in his teens? Those pics make a pretty strong case in favour of genetics.

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
As a non-user I can perfectly live with both scenarios (lower than expected dosages and ridiculous dosages). But I can see that someone who wants to get to actual pro status should know what is really going on.

Related topic: Since the financial aspect has been mentioned in that statement, is it possible to be able to explain some bad competition showings of some pros in the past by a failure to acquire enough pharma? [/quote]

it’s entirely possible that competitions have been thrown off by a failure to acquire the necessary drugs, i doubt it happens with the big names though…[/quote]

god I hope not, that would be a really sad thing.

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I’m confused…you used the quotations, indicating it is not your own personal thoughts, but didn’t ascribe a source. Was this an e-mail that you received from a BB buddy? Was he talking about this site, or another one? Was there a real point in this? I don’t think anyone is surprised that the pros are on a shitload of gear…
[/quote]

it was written by an IFBB pro on PM.

the point is, people often ascribe too much IFBB pro success to genetics… when it really isn’t the case. The only real genetic trait that is important here, is their bodies abilities to deal with all the drugs and not perish…

for example, ive run over a gram of tren a week with no negative side effects, mentally, physically, emotionally… and my bloods came back within range. That’s as far as genetics can go to help you (besides muscle shape, height/width of your frame, etc.)

just putting things in perspective for people who blame their genetics for their failures… it’s not their genetics necessarily at all, it’s their diets/training/drug regimens[/quote]

what is your height weight and age out of interest? do you have any BB goals?

over a gram of tren a week for no discernible reason other than to get in shape for an arbitrary deadline (not even a show) is pretty stupid. blood work is by no means the only barometer of health.

interested in your thoughts, you are one of the better posters here. [/quote]

5’9 almost 200lbs 23 y/o, no bodybuilding goals at the moment

and i should have specified, it was a gram of tren E, which i think equates to about 600mg of ace or so a week…

also my blood pressure was about 110/70 at the time. BP is a HUGE indication of health on cycle. cholesterol actually isnt, believe it or not.

id say it goes like this (just my opinion)

BP
(blood clots)
hematocrit
homocysteine
kidney health
liver health

-everything else

[quote]rds63799 wrote:

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
Regarding genetics, I think the whole “so and so has a great frame, full muscle bellies, and can pack on mass easy” is very overhyped. Guys like Jay Cutler, Branch Warren, and Markus Ruhl had pretty shitty shapes in many ways, yet still reached the top .1% or so of bodybuilding.[/quote]

have you seen the pictures of Jay in his teens? Those pics make a pretty strong case in favour of genetics.[/quote]

u do realize that the pros of today (and of yesterday) started using ALL kinds of gear in their very early years right? plus it wasn’t illegal back then, so pharma grade was much more common…

today we are lucky to get reasonably dosed gear from raws out of china… and most GH is fake

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
Regarding genetics, I think the whole “so and so has a great frame, full muscle bellies, and can pack on mass easy” is very overhyped. Guys like Jay Cutler, Branch Warren, and Markus Ruhl had pretty shitty shapes in many ways, yet still reached the top .1% or so of bodybuilding.[/quote]

have you seen the pictures of Jay in his teens? Those pics make a pretty strong case in favour of genetics.[/quote]

u do realize that the pros of today (and of yesterday) started using ALL kinds of gear in their very early years right? plus it wasn’t illegal back then, so pharma grade was much more common…

today we are lucky to get reasonably dosed gear from raws out of china… and most GH is fake[/quote]

what do you mean? steroids have been illegal since all the guys in the above started out. no pro today has been getting legal gear (i only mean the top O guys not some random arabs) at any point in their career.

Walkway

Perfectly timed thread with all the “what the highest dose you’ve run” threads as of late. That posts puts it out there where it is. No one thinks of the financial burdens of real AAS usage. Most are aware of the typical side effects but many never think of the cost for years of usage. 30k a year minimum spent on drugs is pretty typical at the higher levels. One would think most people could figure this out on their own after watching videos of guys who have almost made it who still live in crappy apartments in shitty neighborhoods and do not have a pot to piss in.

Most who also do not understand the genetic ability to run high levels of gear have never tried or experienced it themselves, so it’s hard to convince them of this unique trait.