T Nation

Mood Change After SGHP vs Pressing Days??

Christian Thibaudeau Coaching
#1

Anybody have any thoughts/suggestions/experience with this? I’ve done 2 weeks of the original layers setup using 2 SGHP days , 2 pressing days, and 1 TBDL day. After my press days I feel incredibly charged so good I could “eat snails.” The dead lift day is draining but still leaves me feeling good.

But for whatever reason I feel like crap after SGHP days… Irritable, moody, didn’t finish with that great pumped feeling in the muscles worked. It’s a fairly new lift to me in that I haven’t done it often or focused on technique as I am trying to do now after reading CTs pulling thread. Is it probably just that I’m not efficient at it yet so it is more neurally draining than my other lifts which I have lots of practice with?

Power Cleans, Squats & DL Same Day?
#2

[quote]mstorm wrote:
Anybody have any thoughts/suggestions/experience with this? I’ve done 2 weeks of the original layers setup using 2 SGHP days , 2 pressing days, and 1 TBDL day. After my press days I feel incredibly charged so good I could “eat snails.” The dead lift day is draining but still leaves me feeling good. But for whatever reason I feel like crap after SGHP days… Irritable, moody, didn’t finish with that great pumped feeling in the muscles worked. It’s a fairly new lift to me in that I haven’t done it often or focused on technique as I am trying to do now after reading CTs pulling thread. Is it probably just that I’m not efficient at it yet so it is more neurally draining than my other lifts which I have lots of practice with?[/quote]

Yeah, that happened to my partner when I first introduced him to the movement… after 2-3 sessions he didn’t want to have anything to do with that movement for the reasons you mentioned.

Learning a complex movement… not only that, learning a NEW WAY TO USE YOUR MUSCLES (explosive/ballistic action with a decent weight) is VERY neurally draining. Which is why I NEVER recommend learning to do snatch-grip high pulls WHILE DOING the layers for that lift.

If you don’t know how to SGHP and aren’t efficient at them yet, it’s better to practice them frequently with moderate weight and lowish volume just to master the form. When the form is solid and automatized you can start to use that lift with layers.

Heck, what you are doing is like trying to learn to play golf by playing Pebble Beach without ever having taken a golf swing…

#3

Makes sense, thanks for the feedback. I just didn’t realize the effect it would have. How would you suggest structuring the split to focus on practicing technique while still getting upper back volume without applying layers to the SGHP? I’d been doing press incline tilt/SGHP/press decline tilt/TBDL/SGHP per the original layers setup.

#4

[quote]mstorm wrote:
Makes sense, thanks for the feedback. I just didn’t realize the effect it would have. How would you suggest structuring the split to focus on practicing technique while still getting upper back volume without applying layers to the SGHP? I’d been doing press incline tilt/SGHP/press decline tilt/TBDL/SGHP per the original layers setup. [/quote]

I’d do 10-15 minutes of technical practice at the start of every workout. And on the days where you were supposed to do high pulls I’d do one day of squats and one day of back work done using more traditional sets and reps.

#5

Ok thanks I’ll give that a shot for a while until the technique is second nature.

#6

I think I am going to get away from the split originally mentioned and drop the layers while working on SGHP technique since for me the attraction of that split was mass gains in the upper back. I would rather return to it after I can use the split as intended.

I’m prob going to simplify and use a 2-on 1-off rotation, one big lift per day: front squat, bench, TBDL, and a more traditional back day. Each of the big 3 lifts would cycle weekly through 1RM/3RM/6RM ramps plus density work and loaded carries. Every day starts with SGHP technique, something like 60-70% for 6x2-3 reps.That would give me about 5 weeks to fine tune it before trying a full layer approach to the SGHP along with the other main lifts and split as you laid out. Please let me know if you think this is a sensible enough plan or not, thank you.

#7

[quote]mstorm wrote:
Anybody have any thoughts/suggestions/experience with this? I’ve done 2 weeks of the original layers setup using 2 SGHP days , 2 pressing days, and 1 TBDL day. After my press days I feel incredibly charged so good I could “eat snails.” The dead lift day is draining but still leaves me feeling good.

But for whatever reason I feel like crap after SGHP days… Irritable, moody, didn’t finish with that great pumped feeling in the muscles worked. It’s a fairly new lift to me in that I haven’t done it often or focused on technique as I am trying to do now after reading CTs pulling thread. Is it probably just that I’m not efficient at it yet so it is more neurally draining than my other lifts which I have lots of practice with?[/quote]

Do you have an very many large knots in your traps. Didn’t experience this after learning high pulls but I did get the effect of what you are mentioning after heavy shrugs a while back. Every time I would shrug I would get a varying duration headache that would live me irritable and mopey the rest of the day.

Started getting deep tissue massages to work out the massive knots I had in my traps, paired with stretches for my neck, shoulder and back and it actually resolved the issue for the most part.

#8

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Do you have an very many large knots in your traps. Didn’t experience this after learning high pulls but I did get the effect of what you are mentioning after heavy shrugs a while back. Every time I would shrug I would get a varying duration headache that would live me irritable and mopey the rest of the day.

Started getting deep tissue massages to work out the massive knots I had in my traps, paired with stretches for my neck, shoulder and back and it actually resolved the issue for the most part.[/quote]

Actually I am pretty consistent about using my rumble roller and lacrosse ball to work on soft tissue adhesions/knots. For the past year I’ve done about 10 mins before every workout. The lacrosse ball (up against the wall) has been extremely useful on the upper back (traps, rhomboids, delts), if you’ve never tried that I would highly recommend. I def had lots of knots up there when I started rolling it out regularly. On a side note, I hate shrugs… never gave me headaches, but they always leave me with kinks and pain in my neck so I avoid them and in place use facepull variations and farmers walks to load the traps… it has helped avoid the pains.

#9

[quote]mstorm wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Do you have an very many large knots in your traps. Didn’t experience this after learning high pulls but I did get the effect of what you are mentioning after heavy shrugs a while back. Every time I would shrug I would get a varying duration headache that would live me irritable and mopey the rest of the day.

Started getting deep tissue massages to work out the massive knots I had in my traps, paired with stretches for my neck, shoulder and back and it actually resolved the issue for the most part.[/quote]

Actually I am pretty consistent about using my rumble roller and lacrosse ball to work on soft tissue adhesions/knots. For the past year I’ve done about 10 mins before every workout. The lacrosse ball (up against the wall) has been extremely useful on the upper back (traps, rhomboids, delts), if you’ve never tried that I would highly recommend. I def had lots of knots up there when I started rolling it out regularly. On a side note, I hate shrugs… never gave me headaches, but they always leave me with kinks and pain in my neck so I avoid them and in place use facepull variations and farmers walks to load the traps… it has helped avoid the pains.[/quote]

Yeah, I don’t really them much myself anymore. The effect they provide just doesn’t seem to be worth the toll they take on the body. Most of my trap work comes from Power Clean (not very good at these and still going light to work on technique), SGHP’s, with the occasional high rep cable rope face pulls and upright rows.

#10

I’m glad you posted this. I am running into the same issue with the SGHP & Snatch. Hell I was trying to learn the Snatch and the SGHP at the same time…No wonder I’m such a pleasant person :slight_smile:

#11

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I’m glad you posted this. I am running into the same issue with the SGHP & Snatch. Hell I was trying to learn the Snatch and the SGHP at the same time…No wonder I’m such a pleasant person :)[/quote]

Glad it wasn’t just me who made the same mistake! Even after just one 10-min session today (focusing on technique before doing the main lift) felt a ton better. I actually enjoyed it and felt like I got into a groove after a couple sets of 3’s. It has a nice activation effect as well before moving onto the main lift.

#12

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Yeah, I don’t really them much myself anymore. The effect they provide just doesn’t seem to be worth the toll they take on the body. Most of my trap work comes from Power Clean (not very good at these and still going light to work on technique), SGHP’s, with the occasional high rep cable rope face pulls and upright rows.[/quote]

I plan to focus on SGHP technique for a month and then do the same thing with power cleans, so I could eventually incorporate the clean and push press. I have done them all before but not in a year or more so it’s kinda like baby steps at this point haha.

#13

While I am nowhere close to mastering the SGHP, I did recently make a break-through on technique. I had been struggling to do 115lb (I know - baby weights) for the longest time. Then one day I started to feel the hip drive and all of a sudden the weight was light. I ramped to 150 in two sessions and I feel like I can go higher already (though I am forcing myself to make 5lb jumps). Again, I know that these are far from impressive pulls. I never felt bad after this move like you did - but on the flip side I really look forward to them now.

Cheers,
Needa

#14

CT comments on the headache from snatch high pulls from another thread

#15

[quote]concepthenry wrote:
ct comments on the headache from snatch high pulls from another thread

Thanks for pointing that out, I wish I had seen that thread a few weeks ago…

#16

[quote]mstorm wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I’m glad you posted this. I am running into the same issue with the SGHP & Snatch. Hell I was trying to learn the Snatch and the SGHP at the same time…No wonder I’m such a pleasant person :)[/quote]

Glad it wasn’t just me who made the same mistake! Even after just one 10-min session today (focusing on technique before doing the main lift) felt a ton better. I actually enjoyed it and felt like I got into a groove after a couple sets of 3’s. It has a nice activation effect as well before moving onto the main lift. [/quote]

Did the same thing last night myself and felt much better.

#17

[quote]Captain Needa wrote:
While I am nowhere close to mastering the SGHP, I did recently make a break-through on technique. I had been struggling to do 115lb (I know - baby weights) for the longest time. Then one day I started to feel the hip drive and all of a sudden the weight was light. I ramped to 150 in two sessions and I feel like I can go higher already (though I am forcing myself to make 5lb jumps). Again, I know that these are far from impressive pulls. I never felt bad after this move like you did - but on the flip side I really look forward to them now.

Cheers,
Needa[/quote]

I have to remember that SGHP is a partial movement, compared to the snatch or power snatch. I do full snatch singles until I have “good” form with at least 70% of my PR. Before SGHP layers. If I don’t start with full snatches, I struggle with my form and using my hips for the first few sets, and then I am thinking too much while I ramp. Now, I am using more weight for SGHP, but my full snatches are less than my bodyweight for activation sets.

#18

Just wanted to throw that out there for anybody needing a boost in their deadlift sessions (and as a thank you to CT of course)… I remember in one of CT’s SGHP threads he mentioned that it can potentiate the deadlift if performed first.

Well today was my first deadlift session using SGHP technique practice sets at the start (8x3 @ 60-70% which I’m doing at the start of every workout).

When I transitioned to the trap bar deadlifts, it was an incredible difference. The entire movement felt easy, weights were flying up. I went right past my previous PR by 22.5lbs. I stopped there even though I could’ve gone up another 15 lbs since it would’ve been more of a grinder. Couldn’t believe the difference.