Moderation in Bodybuilding?

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
How long does it take to develop a physique that you can be proud of? 10-20 years?
[/quote]

Um. I would really, really hope not.

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
How long does it take to develop a physique that you can be proud of? 10-20 years?

Moderate–but constant–increases in progression, compounded over this time, will result in an impressive physique.

[/quote]

Look at how many people have been going to the gym for years, and still look like they’ve never trained in their lives. Now find the rare ones who say ‘screw moderate’ and bust their ass with the weights, lock down their diets, and do what they need to for 2-3 years (maybe 5). They usually stand out.

S

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

Look at how many people have been going to the gym for years, and still look like they’ve never trained in their lives. Now find the rare ones who say ‘screw moderate’ and bust their ass with the weights, lock down their diets, and do what they need to for 2-3 years (maybe 5). They usually stand out.

S[/quote]

STANDING OVATION

Well I ramp up my weights on most stuff, the “warm up” sets are not to failure… I do find i easier to make progress strength wise at least by not going to failure EVERY time - this does not mean I avoid failure though.

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
How long does it take to develop a physique that you can be proud of? 10-20 years?

Moderate–but constant–increases in progression, compounded over this time, will result in an impressive physique.

[/quote]

Look at how many people have been going to the gym for years, and still look like they’ve never trained in their lives. Now find the rare ones who say ‘screw moderate’ and bust their ass with the weights, lock down their diets, and do what they need to for 2-3 years (maybe 5). They usually stand out.

S[/quote]

Agreed. Additionally, I think the average, drug free bodybuilder can reach 90+% of genetic potential within 5 years of serious training.

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
How long does it take to develop a physique that you can be proud of? 10-20 years?

Moderate–but constant–increases in progression, compounded over this time, will result in an impressive physique.

[/quote]

Look at how many people have been going to the gym for years, and still look like they’ve never trained in their lives. Now find the rare ones who say ‘screw moderate’ and bust their ass with the weights, lock down their diets, and do what they need to for 2-3 years (maybe 5). They usually stand out.

S[/quote]

Ha, I was just about to say the exact same thing - that with focus and good direction most would surpass average and stand out within 3-5 years

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
How long does it take to develop a physique that you can be proud of? 10-20 years?

Moderate–but constant–increases in progression, compounded over this time, will result in an impressive physique.

[/quote]

Look at how many people have been going to the gym for years, and still look like they’ve never trained in their lives. Now find the rare ones who say ‘screw moderate’ and bust their ass with the weights, lock down their diets, and do what they need to for 2-3 years (maybe 5). They usually stand out.

S[/quote]
Couldn’t have said it better myself.

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Sounds like a funny subject for a bodybuilding website…but does anyone struggle with this concept?

Example:

Failure training. Many authors recommend working within a range of your 1RM and not going to failure. I’ve always found it difficult to hold back in order to get more volume in. I’ve always wanted to push 100% and end up reaching failure on all my top sets. If I do purposely hold back, I find it really hard to monitor my progress.

Thoughts?[/quote]

My thoughts on this.

I train relatively heavy for myself (545+ for reps on deads generally, 365+ for reps on bench, heavy everything, not the strongest dude but I am far from the weakest.)

With that being said, and coupled with my training frequency, it would be absolutely retarded to go balls out every session. I just could not recover, I’d start to get weaker, not grow, plateau. I need to have days where I keep things light, do my sets, nothing taken to failure.

I’d quickly burn out otherwise. I am realistic too, some people think they’ll add 50 lbs to a lift in 2 months…I’m happy adding 50 lbs to a lift in a year, year and a half, at this point.

I always look at the big picture. Am I 1% better than I was each month prior? Doesn’t sound like a lot but if I am gaining at that rate, I am 36% better than I am now in 3 years. We’ll go off a 405 bench max and in 3 years I am at 550 lbs. Now the rate I am gaining will probably be less than 1% each month, but I am much more concerned with the big picture than hitting balls out failure sessions every time I train if it hinders my progress in the long run. Same applies to size gains.

Everyone needs to use their brains, listen to their bodies and figure out how to make steady progress. Moderation at times is training smart. Every few sessions I have a moderate workout.

“Moderation” in bodybuilding means you want “moderate” size or want to make a “moderate” commitment. Bodybuilding is extreme by definition, so if you’re seeking “moderation,” you’re not really bodybuilding at all. The choice of training method is a scientific issue, so whether you’re about “moderation” doesn’t hinge on that.

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Sounds like a funny subject for a bodybuilding website…but does anyone struggle with this concept?

Example:

Failure training. Many authors recommend working within a range of your 1RM and not going to failure. I’ve always found it difficult to hold back in order to get more volume in. I’ve always wanted to push 100% and end up reaching failure on all my top sets. If I do purposely hold back, I find it really hard to monitor my progress.

Thoughts?[/quote]

My thoughts on this.

I train relatively heavy for myself (545+ for reps on deads generally, 365+ for reps on bench, heavy everything, not the strongest dude but I am far from the weakest.)

With that being said, and coupled with my training frequency, it would be absolutely retarded to go balls out every session. I just could not recover, I’d start to get weaker, not grow, plateau. I need to have days where I keep things light, do my sets, nothing taken to failure.

I’d quickly burn out otherwise. I am realistic too, some people think they’ll add 50 lbs to a lift in 2 months…I’m happy adding 50 lbs to a lift in a year, year and a half, at this point.

I always look at the big picture. Am I 1% better than I was each month prior? Doesn’t sound like a lot but if I am gaining at that rate, I am 36% better than I am now in 3 years. We’ll go off a 405 bench max and in 3 years I am at 550 lbs. Now the rate I am gaining will probably be less than 1% each month, but I am much more concerned with the big picture than hitting balls out failure sessions every time I train if it hinders my progress in the long run. Same applies to size gains.

Everyone needs to use their brains, listen to their bodies and figure out how to make steady progress. Moderation at times is training smart. Every few sessions I have a moderate workout.[/quote]

Good post. It definitely makes a difference depending on what you focus on as to how you handle your workouts (intensity wise).

Obviously, that’s not talking about the average un-serious gym goer who struggles to put in the effort.

[quote]belligerent wrote:
“Moderation” in bodybuilding means you want “moderate” size or want to make a “moderate” commitment. Bodybuilding is extreme by definition, so if you’re seeking “moderation,” you’re not really bodybuilding at all. The choice of training method is a scientific issue, so whether you’re about “moderation” doesn’t hinge on that. [/quote]

That’s not really what this thread’s about.

It’s more a question of pacing the load so that you manage more volume (and/or so that you manage to lift more next time), example:

Bench Press

Method 1:
Low reps, keep adding weight till last set to failure (you manage 5 reps @ 300lbs)

Method 2: (moderate)
~8 reps/set while adding ~20lbs/set, you get to 280lbs, and manage 2 sets between 5-8 reps with the same load (last set is to failure)

BOTH methods are to failure (there’s no lacking in effort in any way), but the second method has you doing more volume, not only on the “warmups”, but also on the last working sets too (all from taking a more “moderate” approach). So over-all, just for the sake of lifting 20lbs less, you manage to drastically increase the volume and still lift a decent amount on the last set…and likely will make better progress than method 1 where you “save up” and put in EVERYTHING you’ve got just to lift a little bit more on your last set.

[quote]SSC wrote:

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
How long does it take to develop a physique that you can be proud of? 10-20 years?
[/quote]

Um. I would really, really hope not.[/quote]

Really?

I’m not saying that you wont see any improvement until then, but to me, bodybuilding seems like more of a marathon than a sprint.

Look at someone like Professor X. He’s been lifting 10+ years, and he is still trying to improve his physique. I’m sure he is proud of how he has transformed his body, but I would guess that he is not quite satisfied yet.

The bodybuilders that win shows tend to be in their 30’s and 40’s…I’d guess that most of them started lifting in their early 20’s, which means that 10-20 years is what it took for them to get a “winning” physique–if not longer.

Maybe the phrase “physique that you can be proud of” was misleading, but I’ve always considered weightlifting/bodybuilding to be a life-long endeavour, and not something that is mastered in a matter of years.

I’d agree that realistically, you’re talking 10+ years - mainly because of life, setbacks, distractions, learning etc.

There’s no physical reason why someone who has great direction and focus shouldn’t reach near their potential faster.