Moderates and Independents, 2012?

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Christie could be brilliant, but his weight will cause him the election. [/quote]

Yeah but he can squat a shit-ton.[/quote]

More reason why I like him.

Some interesting quotes I saw on Yahoo News…

“Government’s first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives.” - Ronald Reagan

“If the people cannot trust their government to do the job for which it exists - to protect them and to promote their common welfare - all else is lost.” - Barack Obama

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Christie could be brilliant, but his weight will cause him the election. [/quote]

In 8 months he can shed 100.

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Christie could be brilliant, but his weight will cause him the election. [/quote]

In 8 months he can shed 100.[/quote]

He could, with the stuff available on this website. And he has the T-balls to do it too.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I don’t think the masses of idiots that went to the polls for him will have the motivation to do so twice. These are people who are on welfare so you know they are lazy.[/quote]

True, but they’re also the people that want to see Obama continue forward with big government so that they can stay on the government dole.

But I do agree that the bloom is off the rose with Obama. He actually had people thinking that he was going to make a positive difference. There are many Obama voters who are not only disillusioned but a tad bitter. While it’s still too early to tell, it could be that the best the republicans can hope for is a low democrat turn out.

Those counting out Christie because of his weight should think again. We are approaching a population where almost 70% of all Americans are over weight. And he could be just the person to counter the same old same old. But he’s not running. There is a part of him that really detests the press. And he’s wise enough to know that they will be out in full force for Obama.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Those counting out Christie because of his weight should think again. We are approaching a population where almost 70% of all Americans are over weight. And he could be just the person to counter the same old same old. But he’s not running. There is a part of him that really detests the press. And he’s wise enough to know that they will be out in full force for Obama.[/quote]

The press loves to attack him. He’s pissed off just about every union in NJ which is a state with a lot of union and gov’t connections. Just see when we arrested about 140 ppl in one day on corruption charges throughout the state.

The MSNBC crowd will vote solidly left…the FOX News crowd will go solidly right. That much will always be true.

Obama won because he rallied the disenfranchised youth and those who felt entitled.

This time around will be different, but will it be enough to knock out an incumbent…who knows.

For what it’s worth I think that Chris Christie has the best chance to do it, fattie or not.

If Christie lost weight, I would argue that if he ran, he could very well win.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
If Christie lost weight, I would argue that if he ran, he could very well win. [/quote]

I think he can win regardless…what he did in Jersey with those politics, pretty strong.

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
If Christie lost weight, I would argue that if he ran, he could very well win. [/quote]

I think he can win regardless…what he did in Jersey with those politics, pretty strong.

[/quote]

Problem is once he leaves everything will be undone. The courts are even making him overturn some of his decisions. He is fighting every step of the way but I think he is more popular nationally than locally. There is a huge amount of opposition in NJ to his policies. The unions hate him.

[quote]Bonesaw93 wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
If Christie lost weight, I would argue that if he ran, he could very well win. [/quote]

I think he can win regardless…what he did in Jersey with those politics, pretty strong.

[/quote]

Problem is once he leaves everything will be undone. The courts are even making him overturn some of his decisions. He is fighting every step of the way but I think he is more popular nationally than locally. There is a huge amount of opposition in NJ to his policies. The unions hate him.
[/quote]

The number one reason he will be successful on the national level. People are just as fed up with Unions and Entitlements as they are with the wars.

If he rides his anti-union and entitlement unicorn, he can beat Obama.

Everybody who is not in a union is sick of them…they served their purpose and are now painfully obsolete.

Especially after the GOP won the recall in Wisconsin. Don’t think Obama wasn’t paying attention to that.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Especially after the GOP won the recall in Wisconsin. Don’t think Obama wasn’t paying attention to that. [/quote]

I tend to look at those results a different way.

As in “How many incumbent state reps were defeated?” Only two, so it shows that even in a recall with tempers blowing up all over the place the incumbents still were able to remain in place.

Just proving if you have the seat it is hard to take it away.

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Especially after the GOP won the recall in Wisconsin. Don’t think Obama wasn’t paying attention to that. [/quote]

I tend to look at those results a different way.

As in “How many incumbent state reps were defeated?” Only two, so it shows that even in a recall with tempers blowing up all over the place the incumbents still were able to remain in place.

Just proving if you have the seat it is hard to take it away.[/quote]

I agree with this. Next week, 2 Dem seats are up for recall. If those seats go to the GOP, I think that would speak loudly.

A battle was won, but the war is nowhere near over.

From the political attitude here in California, I am starting to think that we will see some fireworks here in California.

Just announced today, our fake budget passed by Dems is already falling short. $4 Billion was assumed on “windfall revenues” (which is the PC way of saying, “we have no fucking idea where this money is going to come from”). A court order for an audit was called, and the assembly speaker is denying to follow the court order. Some awesome shit jumping off around here.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Especially after the GOP won the recall in Wisconsin. Don’t think Obama wasn’t paying attention to that. [/quote]

I tend to look at those results a different way.

As in “How many incumbent state reps were defeated?” Only two, so it shows that even in a recall with tempers blowing up all over the place the incumbents still were able to remain in place.

Just proving if you have the seat it is hard to take it away.[/quote]

I agree with this. Next week, 2 Dem seats are up for recall. If those seats go to the GOP, I think that would speak loudly.

A battle was won, but the war is nowhere near over.

From the political attitude here in California, I am starting to think that we will see some fireworks here in California.

Just announced today, our fake budget passed by Dems is already falling short. $4 Billion was assumed on “windfall revenues” (which is the PC way of saying, “we have no fucking idea where this money is going to come from”). A court order for an audit was called, and the assembly speaker is denying to follow the court order. Some awesome shit jumping off around here.[/quote]

I just spent several weeks in your state on vaca and got to see (and hear this from my Grandfather) first hand.

It is pretty rediculous how they are just making up numbers as they go (kind of like the fearless leader of the teleprompter in DC).

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
So…by all indications, Obama should lose?

Mufasa[/quote]

He still polls higher than any of the possible contenders… who all poll lower than a generic Republican… this tells me people are upset/frustrated, but like the likely alternatives even less.

That’s pretty much where I am. I think the “Big Decision” for me is going to be is it worth voting “against” someone who is likely to win, or should I vote for someone I like who has no chance of winning.

I can’t imagine the Republicans picking someone in their primary that I’d want to support.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
The Republicans really do have a golden opportunity here, by relaxing their anal sphincter just a bit, and not being so fucking Republican. If they are willing to move their political compass just a little left, they will win moderates and perhaps some Dems. Fiscally Conservative, socially neutral, and business friendly. I want to see someone offer a tax incentive to keep jobs here in the US. And for fuck’s sake, GTFO out of the Middle East. You throw up someone like that, I would bet he could beat Obummer. [/quote]

You have a good point here. A lot of the “democrats” I speak to tell me their support for Obama was generally a knee-jerk reaction to the fact that the Republicans had Bush for so long and were looking to replace him with someone who seemed too similar.

The other deciding factor was Palin. I know some of the people here still have a raging hardon for the witch, but she cost the Republicans an election. Given how close the voting came out, and the controversy surrounding Palin, it’s not rocket surgery to see this. Take Palin away in '08 and today we’d be discussing President McCain.

If the Republican party puts someone forward that is young, only slightly right of center, they have a real shot at winning (with the right campaign, obviously). The next step for them should they win is to stay the course and not shift right back to extreme right-wing, otherwise they’ll never see a Presidency again.

And for the love of God, no more bumpkins from Alaska.

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
So…by all indications, Obama should lose?

Mufasa[/quote]

He still polls higher than any of the possible contenders… who all poll lower than a generic Republican… this tells me people are upset/frustrated, but like the likely alternatives even less.

That’s pretty much where I am. I think the “Big Decision” for me is going to be is it worth voting “against” someone who is likely to win, or should I vote for someone I like who has no chance of winning.

I can’t imagine the Republicans picking someone in their primary that I’d want to support.[/quote]

Just to add to what Spartiates said:

A lot of polls seem to be showing a divergence in the electorate (that is also seen right here on “PWI”):

One side sees the President as an absolute failure and perhaps the worst President ever (and most likely a group that would not have voted for him irrespective of the shape of the economy).

Then there are those that see him as doing the best job he can under the worst economic circumstances since the Great Depression, compounded by both a) a weakening Europe and b) pressures from emerging economies like Brazil, India and China. This really represents a mix of both an “undecided” electorate and the ones that put the President’s approval rating higher than the “unknown” GOP candidate.

What will be interesting is how will these Polls change when the actual GOP candidate is chosen.

Mufasa

[quote]Makavali wrote:

You have a good point here. A lot of the “democrats” I speak to tell me their support for Obama was generally a knee-jerk reaction to the fact that the Republicans had Bush for so long and were looking to replace him with someone who seemed too similar.

The other deciding factor was Palin. I know some of the people here still have a raging hardon for the witch, but she cost the Republicans an election. Given how close the voting came out, and the controversy surrounding Palin, it’s not rocket surgery to see this. Take Palin away in '08 and today we’d be discussing President McCain.

If the Republican party puts someone forward that is young, only slightly right of center, they have a real shot at winning (with the right campaign, obviously). The next step for them should they win is to stay the course and not shift right back to extreme right-wing, otherwise they’ll never see a Presidency again.
[/quote]

I agree with most of this. I think Obama has to make the argument that Congress, not just Republicans, are responsible for most of the current mess (most of them have either been there longer than Obama or took stances that were inflexible). If the Super Congress is unable to get anything accomplished, which by the looks of things it is party loyalists with more power but smaller numbers, then that argument gets better. I think Obama has moved into a moderate/centrist spot by appearing to work with Republicans and go against many in his party.

I think whichever candidate can appear more central, whether slightly left or right, will have the greatest chance of winning. Poll numbers I have seen show the majority of voters are in the center and are sick of the extremes of both groups. Mobilize the middle and that candidate can win.