T Nation

Moderately Revised 5/3/1 and 7/5/3 with Extra Day


#1

Hey folks. I know what you're thinking and I tend to agree, don't try to fix what isn't broken but hear me out. Nothing screams that as loudly as the 5/3/1.

All I'm trying to do with my revision is do a little extra to bring up some lagging body parts (shoulders/back) while still building strength on the main compound lifts. So I wanted to add a little more volume for the day that I do OHP, and added a day where I use the barbell bent over row as my primary lift.

On those days, I'll be using more of a 7/5/3 schematic (basically what Matt Ogus does for OHP, sorry I know I know I hate him too but I can't help but admire those shoulders/shoulder strength natty or not). I searched the forum to see if I could find something similar enough but I couldn't find anything so I thought I might give this a whirl. Here is what I came up with (I put the 5/3/1 stuff up even though it's redundant, but just to freshen up the memory):

Day 1: Flat Bench (5/3/1)
Day 2: Deadlift (5/3/1)
Day 3: Rest
Day 4: OHP (7/5/3)
Day 5: Squat (5/3/1)
Day 6: Bent Over Row (7/5/3)
Day 7: Rest
REPEAT

5/3/1 Days:
Week 1: 1 set of 5 @ 65%, 1 set of 5 @ 75%, 1 set of 5+ @ 85%
Week 2: 1 set of 3 @ 70%, 1 set of 3 @ 80%, 1 set of 3+ @ 90%
Week 3: 1 set of 5 @ 75%, 1 set of 3 @ 85%, 1 set of 1+ @ 95%
Week 4: (Deload) 1 set of 5 @ 40%, 1 set of 5 @ 50%, 1 set of 5 @ 60%
-Then Repeat (add 5lb. to bench training max, add 10lb. to squat/deadlift training max)

7/5/3 Days:
Week 1: 5 sets of 7 @ 75%
Week 2: 7 sets of 5 @ 80%
Week 3: 10 sets of 3 @ 85%
Week 4: (Deload) 3 sets of 5 @ 60% OR Topset PR workout with 1 set of AMRAP @ 95% + 2-4 back off sets
-Then Repeat (add 5lb. to OHP/Bent Over Row training max)

-As per usual, the training maxes will be set at 90% of my actual max
-I will be moving the weight back to what it was 2 cycles ago if I start struggling

Other information that may be of use:
I have been training for 6 years
-My current body info isn't up to date but I'm about 176lb, 12% body fat right now
-Have never competed in anything, I care about power and aesthetics about evenly
-I broke my hand many many months ago and couldn't lift for 4 months but I'm mostly up to speed now

Well I tried. Are my revisions good for my goals? Let me know what you guys think!

EDIT: Sorry I'm new here and this is my first post. My avatar isn't working. The "main image" is the avatar, yes?


#2

Jim’s come up with a ton of templates to do a bit more. Why not run his 5/3/1 with BBB? Ton of variation for it, and you’ll get in more volume(which it sounds like you’re looking for). I see you also have a day programmed for Bent Over Row. I’ve done this before and from my experience, back responds better to more overall volume, not specifically programmed like 5/3/1.

I would put your back work after your main lift and not have a day for 5/3/1 Bent Row. Remember the gym only initiates what you’re looking do. Through sleep and diet you’ll get bigger and stronger. Not necessarily by adding a day


#3

Thank you for the input.

Its hard to get on the same page sometimes for me with 5/3/1 stuff just because there are so many variations. I would be down to try this version. However, I would still like some extra frequency and volume for my shoulders/lats.

Do you guys think a good option would be to simply take out some exercise(s) on other days and replace them with some more back/shoulder work?

Straight sets on that extra back/shoulder work or something a little more hard core?

EDIT: Sorry, I didn’t realize I couldn’t post certain links so my link was deleted, I’ll just post the workout. I saw another template for bodybuilding aside from boring but big, I think this looks better, don’t you think?

Day 1: Shoulders and Biceps
Standing Military Press â?? 5/3/1
DB Military Press â?? 4 x12
Side Laterals/Rear Laterals â?? 4 x12
Barbell Curls â?? 4 x12
Preacher Curls â?? 4 x10

Day 2: Back
Deadlift â??  5/3/1
Bent Over Rows â?? 4 x12
Chin ups â?? 4 x10 (or do Lat Pulldowns)
Good Mornings â?? 4 x10
Hanging Leg Raises â?? 4 x12

Day 3: Chest and Triceps
Bench Press â?? 5/3/1
Weighted Dips â?? 4 x10
DB Flyes â?? 4 x12
Triceps Pushdowns â?? 5 x 20
Push ups â?? 4 sets to failure

Day 4: Legs and Abs
Squat â?? 5/3/1
Leg Press â?? 5 x 15
Leg Curls â?? 5 x 15
Leg Extensions â?? 4 x12
Ab Wheel â?? 4 x12

#4

There is a lot of variation for BBB and other templates. In it’s simplest form BBB starts week 1 around 30-40% of training max for 5x10. You can also wave up and down in a number of ways. Doesn’t really matter how you do it, just get the work done.

If you’re training is set up 5/3/1 on the main lift, then hit 5x10 with those movements, or variations or such (again no wrong way really just get work done) you’re shoulders & back will get bigger with Military, Bench & DL going 5x10. Add in rows, Chinups/Pull Ups or Pulldowns, rear delts and you’ll you’re getting a lot of back work.

On paper it may not look like a whole helluva lot. But after doing it, you’ll see just how much work it is. Jack up calories (which you better if you expect to grow) and you’ll be on you’re way to a bigger you.

What you outlined is fine too. There isn’t really a right or wrong way. Try it and see if it works. If you’re looking to get bigger, how you set up your assistance stuff, IMO, doesn’t really matter as long as you increase volume gradually, have balance, and pick movements that matter for what your goals are.

Whether you set it up Upper/Lower, Body Part Split, etc I don’t think really matters. Put some work in on the main lift, and if you’re volume on assistance stuff is going to jacked up then don’t destroy yourself on the main lift


#5

so for the assistance lifts I shouldn’t be utilizing strategies to intensify them such as drop sets, slow eccentrics, etc.?


#6

No you can, but you don’t need to throw everything under the sun in your training. If you’ve ever seen John Meadows and how he sets up training, he may use 1 or 2 things like you mentioned(rest pause, drop sets, etc) a workout but there’s also a purpose. He doesn’t do them just to them. It extends sets, gets more work done. But for you to use a high volume approach AND this in your training all at once is a recipe for disaster. You’re thinking way to much


#7

“AND this?” What do you mean by “and this.”

Do you mean using the bodybuilding templates for the 5/3/1 AND using some sort of intensifier (slow eccentrics, drop sets, etc.?)


#8

Yes


#9

In all honesty. If your main goal is “power” and aesthetics you should probably go do any of the millions of BB routines out there.

The way I see it, 5/3/1 is never gonna be enough for you. Tweaking it into that thing you did, thats a living proof. You are always gonna feel something is not being worked properly (lats. shoulders, biceps, triceps, whatever) you, on a best case scenario, will fumble upon BBB, your own inventions, etc just to end up with the same feeling. Most probably you will just quit 5/3/1 after a few cycles

But if you really want to start 5/3/1, do yourself a favour and read the book, read beyond 5/3/1 too, if you have done that, do it again. Once it’s clear for you that this is not a routine and is more like a framework, a base or, what the heck, even a philosophy enter this forum again and ask whatever you feel like.