sometimes people shoot for 500 lbs as a big barrier to break. Thats what a goal is.
400 is less believable then 500 only b/c it typically takes three 45’s, one 35, one 5, and one 2.5 per side. nobody does that, they just go to 4 plates making it 405.
500 on the other hand is a “barrier” as someone said and typically is just five 45’s and one 2.5. that is believable.
the worst is when guys tell me something like they USED to squat 580 before they hurt their knees. when you think about how hard it would be to load that weight, you just nod your head and say “yeahhhhh, okay buddy.”
I think it mostly relates to what you think your greatest weakness is. Being honest with yourself is tough. I know a lot of guys, for example, who think they are great power punchers and lose alot because they fight as such. They could prolly be fairly successful if they fought a style that matched their talents. So, if you feel that your technique is the weakness then you should put a lot more effort into that and scale back the weights. If you honestly believe that a lack of strength is holding you back, then you should put the pedal down in the weightroom. Good luck!
I don’t see how you can say your relative strength has helped your wrestling. Wrestling is technique. Strength will help you overcome deficiences in your technique, but will ultimately hurt you in the long run if you don’t get down the basics first. Stop muscling it out and learn the movement, especially in practice. I can understand tourneys, but I will never understand why guys go balls out and muscle shit when we are having technique days. It is fucking annoying to have a practice session become a full blown war. There is a time and place for such practices(we called them red flag days in wrestling) as they are beneficial, but they are not beneficial when you are trying to learn a movement and it becomes a competition.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
I don’t see how you can say your relative strength has helped your wrestling. Wrestling is technique. Strength will help you overcome deficiences in your technique, but will ultimately hurt you in the long run if you don’t get down the basics first. Stop muscling it out and learn the movement, especially in practice. I can understand tourneys, but I will never understand why guys go balls out and muscle shit when we are having technique days. It is fucking annoying to have a practice session become a full blown war. There is a time and place for such practices(we called them red flag days in wrestling) as they are beneficial, but they are not beneficial when you are trying to learn a movement and it becomes a competition.[/quote]
Technique does certainly take precidence to strength. But don’t ignore strength; at higher level competitions when both sides know technique well its often the deciding factor, especially with the upper weights.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
I don’t see how you can say your relative strength has helped your wrestling. Wrestling is technique. Strength will help you overcome deficiences in your technique, but will ultimately hurt you in the long run if you don’t get down the basics first. Stop muscling it out and learn the movement, especially in practice. I can understand tourneys, but I will never understand why guys go balls out and muscle shit when we are having technique days. It is fucking annoying to have a practice session become a full blown war. There is a time and place for such practices(we called them red flag days in wrestling) as they are beneficial, but they are not beneficial when you are trying to learn a movement and it becomes a competition.[/quote]
To be honest slimjim I dont even know enough about wrestling to say that… but every time I practice take downs someone says “this guy is really strong”.
[quote]Hannibal King wrote:
carter12 wrote:
And to put things in perspective, my bench is about 315, squat is about 400 ass to grass, and deadlift is around 500.
You did the right thing by saying “315”, but the other numbers are what got you caught. Eric Cressey just got done mentioning how stupid it makes people sound when they use numbers like “400” and “500”.
Quit lying, you aren’t strong.
If you’re overtraining, lower the volume, or increase your calories(G-flux).[/quote]
Note that he modified those numbers by saying “about” or “around”. If he isn’t training for a powerlifting competition, what the fuck does it matter? He was just giving us an idea of what he is capable of, not submitting this shit to a federation. I imagine you are one of those guys who try to justify being a weak little twat by assuming everyone else is lying or on steroids.
2 Questions for you. What rules do you compete under in MMA, and of the fights you’ve personally seen or participated in, what would you say the ratio of wins on strength/conditioning vs technique are?
My full contact experience in a ring was totally kickboxing, but we worked out wrestling and BJJ as well. I would say the kickboxing was 70% conditioning/strength vs technique. The most conditioned fighter was usually the last man standing.
I’d go into maintenance mode with strength training. You’d be surprised how infrequently you need to lift to keep your strength. I bet you wouldn’t get much weaker training once every 10 days with weights for a while. Training thai, mma, bjj you probably lose sometimes. When you lose it probably is rarely cause you’re the weaker guy.
Like you said your strength is good. So just maintain and focus on the sport and dare I say sport specific conditioning. The general physical attribute of strength sounds good. How is your flexibility/mobility? Conditioning?
Above all, if you want to try something new like dropping your strength training don’t be afraid to try it. You won’t get weak overnight.
In mma the prescription for you is different than everyone else. Kevin Randleman should work technical subs for a while and pull back on strength training, Vanderlei looks like lately he’s focused on strength too much, and I bet Rich Franklin is stronger at a lot of exercises than A. Silva. A lot of guys are stronger than chuck liddell yet can’t take him down. You probably will benefit most from more technical thai, bjj and wrestling training and easing back on strength. Conditioning you can usually add 12 weeks prior to fighting if you’re already in good shape. Health and not getting burnt out is job 1. Job 2 is technical practice (which will always maintain some strength and give some conditioning). Job 3 is conditioning and any general physical weak areas, maybe mobility or flexibility. Job 4 is strength maintenance.
No offence to CW, but i was really suprised he had no idea who Martin Rooney was…
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
You quoted his article as if it were Gospel. But he has not proven himself to be a MMA training god. Until that happens, his opinion is one of MANY.[/quote]
As is yours. Except CW is reputable, as opposed to some anonymous internet asshole who continually bashes him.
I really don’t like all the bullshit that is going on between a couple assholes badmouthing CW constantly in the last couple weeks. I hope you’re getting paid to do this, CALaw.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
You quoted his article as if it were Gospel. But he has not proven himself to be a MMA training god. Until that happens, his opinion is one of MANY.
As is yours. Except CW is reputable, as opposed to some anonymous internet asshole who continually bashes him.
I really don’t like all the bullshit that is going on between a couple assholes badmouthing CW constantly in the last couple weeks. I hope you’re getting paid to do this, CALaw.[/quote]
When did I bash CW? Do you think QUESTIONING whether someone knows what he is talking is bashing that person?
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Except CW is reputable, as opposed to some anonymous internet asshole who continually bashes him.[/quote]
By the way, why is he reputable? More importantly, how do YOU know he is reputable? Name one top MMA fighter he has trained - one chamption. Do it. Now.
If you can’t do that, then you consider him reputable simply because he writes articles on a website. Which means you have a lot to learn in life, boy.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
By the way, why is he reputable? More importantly, how do YOU know he is reputable? Name one top MMA fighter he has trained - one chamption. Do it. Now.
If you can’t do that, then you consider him reputable simply because he writes articles on a website. Which means you have a lot to learn in life, boy.[/quote]
When did Chad Waterbury become an MMA coach? He simply offered a way to develop strength and conditioning for MMA. In fact, they are very useful for gaining the strength qualities that the program is designed for. I have personally used the program and found it works. That’s all the reputation I need.
Your attack is uncalled for dude.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
You quoted his article as if it were Gospel. But he has not proven himself to be a MMA training god. Until that happens, his opinion is one of MANY.
As is yours. Except CW is reputable, as opposed to some anonymous internet asshole who continually bashes him.
I really don’t like all the bullshit that is going on between a couple assholes badmouthing CW constantly in the last couple weeks. I hope you’re getting paid to do this, CALaw.
When did I bash CW? Do you think QUESTIONING whether someone knows what he is talking is bashing that person? [/quote]
It’s the way you go about it. I already posted on here that a couple of CW’s programs have been splits, so even he doesn’t always go with the full body shit.
I think the amount of success people have had on this site with his programs, and the personal gains I’ve experienced, speak enough that I think the guy knows what he’s talking about. As for training pros, Christ, a lot of trainers train bodybuilders you’ve never heard of, high school athletes you’ve never heard of, and college athletes you’ve never heard of. Trainers don’t just train pros- they have to build a reputation and start somewhere. Joe DeFranco doesn’t just train NFL players, he does a lot of high school and college athletes in my are too. Does that make him less reputable? Or because he only trains Jim Finn and not Tiki Barber? I think that comparison is ridiculous.
I don’t give a shit if he doesn’t train the guys in the NFL, I’d rather see how well he does turning an overweight HS football player around and making him gain mass and speed.
Eh. I’m done with this argument. I respect many of the trainers on this site, and they all know more than you or I do. The only difference is I’m willing to admit it, I guess.
[quote]carter12 wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
By the way, why is he reputable? More importantly, how do YOU know he is reputable? Name one top MMA fighter he has trained - one chamption. Do it. Now.
If you can’t do that, then you consider him reputable simply because he writes articles on a website. Which means you have a lot to learn in life, boy.
When did Chad Waterbury become an MMA coach? He simply offered a way to develop strength and conditioning for MMA. In fact, they are very useful for gaining the strength qualities that the program is designed for. I have personally used the program and found it works. That’s all the reputation I need.
Your attack is uncalled for dude.[/quote]
I never made an attack. Here is how the argument went down:
- Someone says Waterbury is an MMA-strength-training god.
- I say, “Really? What fighters has he trained? Why is he a god?”
- Everyone says, “You are attacking him!”
Has this site gone so downhill that asking whether someone is qualified to write on a subject matter is a personal attack?
Now, by way of disclosure: Yes, I find CW a little annoying. In another thread someone asked him about MMA training books. He smugly acted like none were out there. In fact, there are books by champions and trainers of champions.
So the whole, “I want to market myself so much that I won’t share information great people have produced,” really pisses me off. Especially in light of the fact that CW has not been the training coach to even one champion. It was a dick move. (If he was ignorant of these other books, well, that says a lot, too, I think.)
P.S. I’m glad the program worked for you. I hope someday you become a champion. You seem like a good guy.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
carter12 wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
By the way, why is he reputable? More importantly, how do YOU know he is reputable? Name one top MMA fighter he has trained - one chamption. Do it. Now.
If you can’t do that, then you consider him reputable simply because he writes articles on a website. Which means you have a lot to learn in life, boy.
When did Chad Waterbury become an MMA coach? He simply offered a way to develop strength and conditioning for MMA. In fact, they are very useful for gaining the strength qualities that the program is designed for. I have personally used the program and found it works. That’s all the reputation I need.
Your attack is uncalled for dude.
I never made an attack. Here is how the argument went down:
- Someone says Waterbury is an MMA-strength-training god.
- I say, “Really? What fighters has he trained? Why is he a god?”
- Everyone says, “You are attacking him!”
Has this site gone so downhill that asking whether someone is qualified to write on a subject matter is a personal attack?
Now, by way of disclosure: Yes, I find CW a little annoying. In another thread someone asked him about MMA training books. He smugly acted like none were out there. In fact, there are books by champions and trainers of champions.
So the whole, “I want to market myself so much that I won’t share information great people have produced,” really pisses me off. Especially in light of the fact that CW has not been the training coach to even one champion. It was a dick move. (If he was ignorant of these other books, well, that says a lot, too, I think.)
P.S. I’m glad the program worked for you. I hope someday you become a champion. You seem like a good guy.[/quote]
Can we both accept that you have some animosity towards CW, especially considering what you just posted about his reply to a book question? This is probably why your wording caused me to interpret your post as a personal attack. You still seem to wish to discredit him and tarnish his reputation.
I certainly understand questioning authors, and I hope everyone here has the intelligence to do so. However, what should be questioned is whether his methods work or not. Sure every strength coach wants to make more money to meet their goals, but we can’t say for sure whether his response to that question is really the way you interpreted it. So why bother and then post about it?
There could be many factors as to why he didn’t mention any books… too busy to read other MMA books, forgot specific books because of other things going on, etc. Or maybe he is just out to get money and push everyone down so that he can become the MMA training god?
It shouldn’t really make much difference to us intelligent trainees. In summary, we should not get so concerned about a strength coach’s agenda, as we all know that every one of them wants to make money, but we should question their methods instead. That is time better spent.
I was surprised Chad hadn’t heard of Martin too. That said,
I think Chad has good ideas and workouts. Martin has good stuff. JC and Rhadi, good stuff. Ferrugia and Defranco…good stuff.
All of them and all trainers say things I would use and things I wouldn’t use for myself. Some of the stuff I wouldn’t use but I would have others use.
Read everybody. The fact that Chad hasn’t fought or trained a top mma guy isn’t a major issue. Conditioning an athlete to a certain level does not require you to have that experience.
Martin’s experience with some top flight guys is very useful because he understands the crazy things that happen when walking out to the ring in a big event, flying to Japan for a fight and all the little stuff that goes into peaking for fight night.
Everyone has something to offer and every author’s 3-20 page article is not all of what they know or all of their beliefs. Usually there is a key first line or intro that says ‘this is for average guys’ or ‘this is for 2 weeks right before a show.’ The authors background should be noted just to help you see where they’re coming from or who there target is for that piece, but I wouldn’t say a guy can’t condition a fighter cause he hasn’t worked with a top guy yet.
And on the specific issue of MMA. Some of the fighters could do only HIIT sprints on a bike and still kick the shit out of a lot of other fighters. Some of them aren’t conditioned or strong and still win, though it happens less lately.
The fighters go in the ring and the fighters get the win not the S&C coaches. Good subs and KO accuracy are not built with the S&C coach but with time on the mat. S&C is a supplement.
[quote]
I certainly understand questioning authors, and I hope everyone here has the intelligence to do so. However, what should be questioned is whether his methods work or not. Sure every strength coach wants to make more money to meet their goals, but we can’t say for sure whether his response to that question is really the way you interpreted it. So why bother and then post about it? [/quote]
Because - and I know I may not come off as a caring person - I care about people. I really do. If someone wants to lift weights to help himself become a champion, then I want him to be a success.
When coaches refuse to refer people to other helpful works, I get pissed off. It shows that the coach is not concerned with helping the trainee achieve success. It shows that the coach is only interested in making a quick buck off of book sales, etc.
On a related note, for similar reasons, it pisses me off when supplement companies sell inferior products. One reason I only purchase Biotest supplements is because of the company’s integrity. I expect T-Nation similar integrity from all T-Nation contributors.
[quote]
There could be many factors as to why he didn’t mention any books… too busy to read other MMA books, forgot specific books because of other things going on, etc. Or maybe he is just out to get money and push everyone down so that he can become the MMA training god? [/quote]
Yes, that about covers it. If he’s too busy reading other MMA books, well, that’s hardly a defense - especially when he wants to market himself as knowledgeable about MMA-specific training. If he doesn’t mention other books because he is afraid of competition, then he is a petty and insecure little man - and he’s also fucking T-Nation readers over. That’s bullshit.
T-Nation and its readers are “king makers.” People who write for T-Nation develop a large fan base and because of that, are able to get book deals and achive success they would not otherwise achieve. The very least the person made a “king” can do is give honest and helpful answers to questions - even if it won’t lead to a book sale!
Now, if CW had said: “Hey, man, there are books out there, but I’m not going to tell you what they are because I only want you reading my stuff,” I would have said: “Fucking cool! This guy has a sack!” It was his whole, “I don’t think there’s anything out there” bullshit that pissed me off.
There are sources out there - damn good fucking sources written by former champions and trainers of champions. If CW doesn’t know about these books, he has no business writing MMA-related articles.
[quote]
It shouldn’t really make much difference to us intelligent trainees.[/quote]
I agree. But I care about newbies. I was a newbie once. I was clueless. So I feel bad for the newbies who get taken in by the marketing hype. But I guess that’s just part of “growing up.”
I buy Biotest supplements. As a customer of Biotest, I support T-Nation. As a customer, I expect honest answers and honest articles. If a writer is hiding the truth because he is afraid of competition, then I would like to know.
Of course, I don’t have the “right” to know, but you’d damn well better believe I’ll investigate to see whether the truth is being hidden from view.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Eh. I’m done with this argument. I respect many of the trainers on this site, and they all know more than you or I do. The only difference is I’m willing to admit it, I guess.[/quote]
You don’t know me, what I know, or what I’ve accomplished. So you’re throwing drunk punches.
Here’s what I know about you (from your blog): You smoke and lead an unehalthy (spirtually and physically) lifestyle. You are a walking stereotype that people have of people from New Jersey. You are not someone I would ever want to meet, and your opinion is not something I value.