T Nation

MKatz RE Short Cycles?


#1

hoping for some info/input from mkatz here - as he seems to the guy for short cycle advice!

i am interested in possibly pursuing the shorter cycle route but am concerned with the effects of aas on tendon health, as i have had problems in the past with tendon tears.

researching the subject it seems that primarily equapoise and deca are reconmended for their properties relating to collagen synthesis increase. however, neither of these are suitable for a shorter cycle, are they?

any suggestions please?

also, (somewhere on this site?) i came across a very interesting article relating to aas use in the eastern bloc countries recoomending shorter cycles, lower dosages but especially no testosterone esters, avoiding "bloat", and other estrogen-related sides, but gave no details of compounds used or dosages etc. can anyone tell me where this article was sourced or provide more details?


#2

well,I have done 2 x 2 on 4 off cycles so far.

I'm not very learned on the collagen synthesis aspect of AAS, but its pretty obvious you chould stay away from winny.
I've heard that Var can have a positive effect. Expensive but worth a look into. I think I read that in one of P-22's posts where he outlined that a var-winny stack was useful for cutting since Var could counteract the negative effect that winny has.

Just my 2cents,
CD


#3

I have used both EQ and a Prop/NPP mix (separately) for short cycles along with Anavar and Winstrol (also separately). The Winstol definately starts to cause joint pain within a day or two whenever I have taken it regardless of the injectable i was using at the time (i always use injectibles for my cycles as they are shorter and low-medium doses). On the contrary i have not had this problem with the Anavar or either of the 2 injectibles.

If you want to use nandrolone, then i suggest NPP as it is a much shorter ester. If you want to use EQ, then it is a little trickier. First off, it must be at least 200mg/ml as lower concentrations have a different (longer) release curve and thus a different halflife. I have found that for a short cycle with EQ only if 3ml (200mg/ml) are taken on day -2 (2 days before cycle begins) then it will be about 14-16 days after the cycle begins that you will feel that it is over.

We start therapy with Alpha Male 14 days after inject and find that this works well. If you want a bigger dose of EQ, then you will be making your cycle slightly longer, probably getting closer to three weeks and at this point it starts getting harder to minimizes HTPA disruptions. You could add anavar to this to make a decent cycle, i would go with X dose per day for the first 10 and then anywhere from 1.5X to 2X for the rest of the cycle.


#4

I'm no Mike Katz, but I have a suggestion nontheless. I'm coming off an ACL tear and I too have been reaserching AAS that have a positive effect on Collagen synthesis. In my search 4 chemicals came up repeatedly(Unless you inlude HGH, then it's 5). Those were EQ, decca(or any nandrolone), Var and Primo.

If you're interested in a short cycle, EQ and Decca are clearly not good options. That leaves you with Var and primo. You could make them the crux of your cycle if you goal is to improve joint health, or simply include them in your cycle to minimize another AAS's problematic effect on joints.


#5

I'm sure Katz will come to the rescue on this one soon, but I'd just like to point out a few things. First off I would NOT use Alpha Male for pct (at least not JUST Alpha Male). Clomid and nolva, or at least one of the two would be needed. ALso if you can find it, there is short acting eq (just like short acting deca). Other than that the gear that was reccomened used in the lowest doses necessary to grow is probably what Katz will reccomend. He seems to stick to the "use only what's needed" idea for doses. Which makes sense. Still I think that test prop should be used in any of these cycles for it's obvious benefits, but that's me.


#6

Ok Bro's, in the 3 years that I have been using AAS, I have structured my cycles in just about every way you could imagine. It wasn't until this past summer that I gave the short cycle route a try, and the results were nothing short of spectacular.
Briefly, the cycles were kept to 3 weeks or less and followed up by a 5 week off period which consisted of clomid/nolvadex for the first 2-3 weeks, and then supps for the next 2-3 weeks.
I have only done 3 versions of this so far, but when I get back on in January, I will be using this protocol. That's all I have time 4 now, but I will elaborate more on the 3 cycles shortly.

MK


#7

anavar
npp
eq base

are all good choices.


#8

thanks for the responses and suggestions. i think that winstrol is definitely out? the problem with some of the other suggestions is primarily availability - except with the oxandrolone where its cost as well!

i look forward to your detailing those cycles mkatz,and thanks for your input.


#9

Cycle #1:150mg test prop days 1,2,3 and eod thereafter...last shot on day 17...PCT began on day22, which may have been a little premature, but it worked out ok d/t the 5 weeks off. All in all, I was very impressed with this cycle, especially given my goals going into it-to shed bodyfat and preserve lbm...After 3 weeks on, I dropped about 10lbs. of fat and added 2-3lbs. lbm.

Cycle #2:50mg winstrol/d and 75mg anadrol/d for 21 days...My goal going into this cycle was to add as much lbm as possible, while staying relatively dry...I looked very sharp during this cycle and by keeping my diet very clean, I managed to stay bloat free. The winstrol had me looking great,but it's not worth the damage you inflict on your tendons...I managed to add 6lbs. lbm and dropped my bodyfat a couple points with this one.

Cycle #3:100mg test prop and 100mg npp days 1,2,3, and eod thereafter, with last shot on day 17...Once again, I probably should have waited a few more days to start pct, but regardless I started clomid day22...This one was probably my favorite w/ cycle #2 coming in at a close second...I expected a lot more bloat off of this stack than what I got-npp effects me entirely different than nand dec...I wound up gaining 7 lbs. of lbm and kept bodyfat constant.

HOpe some of this info. helps!

MK


#10

thanks for the input.

i dont know whether this short cycle route is viable for tendon health, or to put it another way, that the compounds that do assist can be effective via short cycles.

mikek - other than the aas, do you use anything else in-cycle? eg nolvadex etc?

how much of your gains do you actually keep "longer term"? it seems almost impossible that you are sythesising 4-7lbs of muscle in a 2-3weeks period and it isnt long enough at that weight for the body to adjust its "set point"??

thanks.


#11

tokon, npp is just fast acting deca...deca increases collagen synthesis more than any other AAS w/ exception to boldenone...so therefore you can have a "tendon healthy" cycle if npp is inorporated or even oxandrolone.
I ran letrozole for my first and third 3 weekers, but just ran some b-6 and vitex for the second one.
Yes, I have been able to hang onto the majority of gains off these cycles d/t minimal hpta suppression and knowing how to handle the transition off AAS...Which has come through trial and error I might add.
Give it a shot bro, you won't be disappointed.

MK


#12

Hi Mike-

Can you comment on your diet during Cycle #2, since it seems to disprove the "you can't cut and bulk at the same time" philosophy...?

Thanks!


#13

That philosophy doesn't apply to chemically enhanced bodies.


#14

Mike I'd like to understand better why 5 weeks off and not 3 weeks?

And why not use Clomid the entire 5 weeks off?

Best,
MC


#15

so, basically, as long as the activity of the compounds used are "done" inside of 21days, htpa disruption is minimalised? this, and hdl-ldl profile, ie health concerns, appears to be the primary advantages of these short cycles? yeah??


#16

MC, the 5 weeks off was instilled to ensure complete hpta recovery/health...I felt that 5 weeks of clomid/nolva would be overkill for such a short time on and data has shown that down regulation of the leydig cells occurs with prolonged clomid use...the opposite can be said for nolvadex btw.

Tokon, essentially you are correct in assuming overall health will not be compromised to the same degree as longer duration cycles...But that is not to guarantee you will be side effect free from this method;It's just that the chances are slimmer and sides are less pronounced.

MK


#17

Thanks MK.

Can't find the research re: Clomid's impact on the Leydig cells --- please direct me to it!

Cyborg says that long term use of Clomid is not only safe but beneficial:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=461705&pageNo=-1#bottom

The only reference I have found regarding this possibility is when the Clomid is taken while on HCG....

Thanks again,
MC