T Nation

Mixing Olympic/Powerlifting

Figureing out how to design a routine that can be don eon a monday-friday scheduele. with a possible sunday-friday if my gym goes through with the decision.

I currently do:
Monday:
Box squats
Deads
ghr
calves
cable abs

Tuesday:
ME bench
overhead press
dumbell incline press
chin ups
face pulls

Thursday:
box squats
snatches (at high weights these end up as power snatches arg)
ghr
calves
cable abs

Friday:
RE bench
clean and jerk
kroc row
chin up
face pulls

I’m really looking for something for fufilling, I would love to &J twice a week and snatch at least once. should I remove chins from my first upper body day and add C&J. I don’t want to remove overhead press because I really need to get my shoulder strength up. I might take out GHR and add front/overhead squats to one of my lower body days. I really don’t know what to do. I might remove box squats from the deadlift day and do front squats. Will I be doing enough towards my competition lifts (right now just powerlifting)…

so fucking difficult…

Are you going to compete in OL? If not then there is no reason to go super heavy in them, work them in for speed purposes. I am not a fan of chins in general, too much arm and not enough back.

Changing in fronts/overheads would be good for variety and completeness in the legs, but if you arent gonna do OL then again, don’t go super heavy. I generally think, and I am not a title owner so I can’t back it up with results(yet hopefully), that you should focus on what you are going to compete in and do other exercises at lower intensity in order to round out muscle development and give you a safety net of completeness.

I would think about romanians,and standing rows (over and under).

Also what do your reps/set combos look like? I am a fan of high set/low reps for strength and power on the main lifts (dead/squat/bench) and as you move farther away from those muscle groups to more individualized, increase reps, decrease weights and sets.

This is just off the top of my head, lemme know if you need any clarification/reasoning behind any of it.

Hello. I think I can help. I do both and am stronger than the average gym goer in both. Here’s a program that might work for you.

DAY 1
A. Back Squat, 5x5
B. GHR, 4x6
C. Reverse Hyper, 3x8

DAY 2
A. Snatch, 8x3
B. Overhead Squat, 4x6
C. Overhead Press, 3x8

DAY 3
A. Clean, 8x3
B. Jerk, 8x3

DAY 4
A. BB Bench Press, 5x5
B. Chins, 4x6
C. DB Bench Press, 3x8
D. Seated Rows, 3x8

I don’t recommend a 2nd C&J day unless your body can handle it. If you can, days 2 & 5 will be your C&J days. Your snatch day will be day 3.

Do you have qualified coaching available to you for OL? If not, then it’s likely that you’re wasting your time. Without sharp technique, you’re never going to be able to handle weights that will induce a training effect that will carry over to powerlifting. Moreover, OL depends on fundamentally different strength qualities in fundamentally different positions from PL, so I feel like integrating the two is just adding a bunch of extra work that isn’t going to contribute to your total.

Now, it’s possible that incorporating some power cleans or power snatches during a training block that emphasizes speed-strength/RFD might bring some delayed transformation benefits later, but you’re training Westside (kinda), so that’s not really something you can assimilate into that framework.

Do you want to be good at powerlifting? Then stick to the template. Do you want to be mediocre at both powerlifting and OL? Then by all means proceed as planned.

[quote]Lucid_3ntr0py wrote:
Are you going to compete in OL? If not then there is no reason to go super heavy in them, work them in for speed purposes. I am not a fan of chins in general, too much arm and not enough back.

Changing in fronts/overheads would be good for variety and completeness in the legs, but if you arent gonna do OL then again, don’t go super heavy. I generally think, and I am not a title owner so I can’t back it up with results(yet hopefully), that you should focus on what you are going to compete in and do other exercises at lower intensity in order to round out muscle development and give you a safety net of completeness.

I would think about romanians,and standing rows (over and under).

Also what do your reps/set combos look like? I am a fan of high set/low reps for strength and power on the main lifts (dead/squat/bench) and as you move farther away from those muscle groups to more individualized, increase reps, decrease weights and sets.

This is just off the top of my head, lemme know if you need any clarification/reasoning behind any of it.[/quote]

We have a plifting team and school here, but I plan on competeing in Olifting eventually, So I don’t want to suck at them.

[quote]2274 wrote:
Hello. I think I can help. I do both and am stronger than the average gym goer in both. Here’s a program that might work for you.

DAY 1
A. Back Squat, 5x5
B. GHR, 4x6
C. Reverse Hyper, 3x8

DAY 2
A. Snatch, 8x3
B. Overhead Squat, 4x6
C. Overhead Press, 3x8

DAY 3
A. Clean, 8x3
B. Jerk, 8x3

DAY 4
A. BB Bench Press, 5x5
B. Chins, 4x6
C. DB Bench Press, 3x8
D. Seated Rows, 3x8

I don’t recommend a 2nd C&J day unless your body can handle it. If you can, days 2 & 5 will be your C&J days. Your snatch day will be day 3.[/quote]

This looks pretty good, We don’t have a reverse hyper at my gym, should I deadlift instead? I’m gonna put this routine in a notepad file to look at later. WHen I stall on my current one. THANKS. I also though something like:

Monday:
boxsquat
bench press
C&J
db rows

Wednesday:
Snatch
deadlift
overhead press
chinup

Friday:
front/overhead/ or suited backsquat if I’m approaching a meet
Bench press
C&J
Rows

anyways, I can’t be the only one on this forum with this issue. I might buy a barbell for at home and train OLY lifting in the morning and plifting in the afternoon. BUt I’m broke right now.

zep,

I train olympic lifts, deadlifts, squats at home, and do isolation and machine work at the health club my family has a membership to a few times a week in the evenings, mostly for hobby. So I’m not really in the same situation as you, but I think building strength, speed, position for the olympic lifts will translate to powerlifting if I ever want to go in that direction, especially since I deadlift and do upper back work at the gym a couple times a week.

I’m not sure if your program really makes sense though tbh, the olympic lifts are very demanding and form intensive so I’d say you should either scrap them or put more focus on them. The other option might be to just focus on the clean and jerk, a much easier movement than the snatch, and incorporate that into your PL routine?

C&J might be easier (and that is really dependent on whether or not you’re technically good at them), but they’re a lot harder to recover from than snatches.

The program 2274 set out looks pretty solid and do-able. You could also just break each day down into:

A. Oly variation
B. Whatever PL lift you’re training that day
C. Assistance for that lift

[quote]ninearms wrote:
C&J might be easier (and that is really dependent on whether or not you’re technically good at them), but they’re a lot harder to recover from than snatches.

The program 2274 set out looks pretty solid and do-able. You could also just break each day down into:

A. Oly variation
B. Whatever PL lift you’re training that day
C. Assistance for that lift
[/quote]

I’m decent at clean and jerking. I could deffinatey use a coach but they teach a , horrible form powerclean to push press" to the athletes here. I’ve been slowly adding weight to my C&J and snatch the last few weeks. my goal right now is a 225 C&J and a 185 pound snatch.

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
2274 wrote:
Hello. I think I can help. I do both and am stronger than the average gym goer in both. Here’s a program that might work for you.

DAY 1
A. Back Squat, 5x5
B. GHR, 4x6
C. Reverse Hyper, 3x8

DAY 2
A. Snatch, 8x3
B. Overhead Squat, 4x6
C. Overhead Press, 3x8

DAY 3
A. Clean, 8x3
B. Jerk, 8x3

DAY 4
A. BB Bench Press, 5x5
B. Chins, 4x6
C. DB Bench Press, 3x8
D. Seated Rows, 3x8

I don’t recommend a 2nd C&J day unless your body can handle it. If you can, days 2 & 5 will be your C&J days. Your snatch day will be day 3.

This looks pretty good, We don’t have a reverse hyper at my gym, should I deadlift instead? I’m gonna put this routine in a notepad file to look at later. WHen I stall on my current one. THANKS. I also though something like:

Monday:
boxsquat
bench press
C&J
db rows

Wednesday:
Snatch
deadlift
overhead press
chinup

Friday:
front/overhead/ or suited backsquat if I’m approaching a meet
Bench press
C&J
Rows

anyways, I can’t be the only one on this forum with this issue. I might buy a barbell for at home and train OLY lifting in the morning and plifting in the afternoon. BUt I’m broke right now.
[/quote]

I wouldn’t recommend deadlifting anymore because the snatches, cleans and back squats would impact your entire posterior chain A LOT. Goodmornings would be a better and less demanding choice IMO.

[quote]2274 wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
2274 wrote:
Hello. I think I can help. I do both and am stronger than the average gym goer in both. Here’s a program that might work for you.

DAY 1
A. Back Squat, 5x5
B. GHR, 4x6
C. Reverse Hyper, 3x8

DAY 2
A. Snatch, 8x3
B. Overhead Squat, 4x6
C. Overhead Press, 3x8

DAY 3
A. Clean, 8x3
B. Jerk, 8x3

DAY 4
A. BB Bench Press, 5x5
B. Chins, 4x6
C. DB Bench Press, 3x8
D. Seated Rows, 3x8

I don’t recommend a 2nd C&J day unless your body can handle it. If you can, days 2 & 5 will be your C&J days. Your snatch day will be day 3.

This looks pretty good, We don’t have a reverse hyper at my gym, should I deadlift instead? I’m gonna put this routine in a notepad file to look at later. WHen I stall on my current one. THANKS. I also though something like:

Monday:
boxsquat
bench press
C&J
db rows

Wednesday:
Snatch
deadlift
overhead press
chinup

Friday:
front/overhead/ or suited backsquat if I’m approaching a meet
Bench press
C&J
Rows

anyways, I can’t be the only one on this forum with this issue. I might buy a barbell for at home and train OLY lifting in the morning and plifting in the afternoon. BUt I’m broke right now.

I wouldn’t recommend deadlifting anymore because the snatches, cleans and back squats would impact your entire posterior chain A LOT. Goodmornings would be a better and less demanding choice IMO.[/quote]

You’re gonna make me go paranoid not wanting me to train a competition lift O_O. I thought about it and something like this might be nice for a while:

Monday:
clean 5x3
Deadlift to max
ghr
calves

Tuesday:
ME bench press
jerk press
dumbell incline press
DB rows

Thurs:
Snatch 4x2-3
Squat variation
GHR
calves

Friday:
RE bench press
Military
Chin
DB row

I honestly don’t know. I have this thread saved to review when I stall out on my current program. Thanks a ton for the help. I ver probably will use one of the routines you posted after I run a smolov bastard program this summer.

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
You’re gonna make me go paranoid not wanting me to train a competition lift O_O.[/quote]

Not my intent. After all, I’ve experienced noticeable carryover from squatting, snatching and cleaning to deadlifts.

why not keep with the WS template and throw in your OL lifts on the DE leg days? rotate a week or two of snatches instead of deadlifts on your ME lower days…

I wish i could help you more, but i think im in the same boat, just competed in PL and want to look at OL

[quote]lbh110 wrote:
why not keep with the WS template and throw in your OL lifts on the DE leg days?[/quote]

That’s exactly what I do for WS4SB. I depending on the month, I snatch or clean on DE upper day. I keep the big 3 on ME days.

Here’s what I do to throw in some Oly lifts in my routine:

Day One - Press
OH Squats
Push Press
CG Bench
2 Board
Dips

Day Two - Pull
Cleans/Clean variation
Deadlifts
DE Bench
BORs
Rdls/GM’s

Day Three - Squat
Full Snatch
Back squat
ME Bench
Front squat

Basically I just throw in an oly movement at the beginning of each workout. It serves as a warm up and helps me focus on technique due to me not being fatigued or anything. I suggest doing 5-8 sets of 1-3 reps for each lift. I usually only do singles for my snatch. Overall my #1 goal is still my big 3 though while still focusing on improving my Olympic lifting technique. I’m not an expert or anything though, just giving a personal opinion so take it for what its worth :wink:

[quote]ThinkGreen wrote:
Here’s what I do to throw in some Oly lifts in my routine:

Day One - Press
OH Squats
Push Press
CG Bench
2 Board
Dips

Day Two - Pull
Cleans/Clean variation
Deadlifts
DE Bench
BORs
Rdls/GM’s

Day Three - Squat
Full Snatch
Back squat
ME Bench
Front squat

Basically I just throw in an oly movement at the beginning of each workout. It serves as a warm up and helps me focus on technique due to me not being fatigued or anything. I suggest doing 5-8 sets of 1-3 reps for each lift. I usually only do singles for my snatch. Overall my #1 goal is still my big 3 though while still focusing on improving my Olympic lifting technique. I’m not an expert or anything though, just giving a personal opinion so take it for what its worth ;)[/quote]

very cool. I’d probably have a second bench day because I make more progress twice a week but that’s just me. Have you been making gains on this kind of routine?

Yes I have definitely made gains on this program. I actually do bench every day though, I do Close Grip on my first day, DE Bench on my 2nd day, and ME Bench on my 3rd day. I focus on bench more though due to it being my weakest lift of the big 3 by far

Right now I’m thinking:

Monday:
ME Squat/RE bench/Clean day

ME squat variation to max (box atm)
Cleans 4x2
RE bench press 3xmax reps with 135 for now
DB rows 4x5-8

Wednesday:
ME deadlift day

deadlift to max
GHR 3x12
Calves 3x12

Thursday:
ME bench press day:

ME bench press
Overhead press 3x5
inline db press 3x8
chins 3x3-8
DB rows 4x5-8

Friday:
light squat/snatch/jerk day

snatch 4x2
boxsquat up to 80% max for reps
jerks 4x2-3
GHR 3x12

Has adequate volume for me I like it. The biggest issue is how to add fullbody olympic lifts into the upper/lower style split I prefered. This isn’t really an upper/lower split anymore. BUt I like the way it’s layed out. I think jerking with a fatigued upper body will teach me to use more leg drive.

This is so fucking confusing.

i would do the olift at the start of your sessions.

koing

Eat a truckload of food and sleep a ton. Cause thats a heavy duty routine