By Zeus’ left testicle, what a lot of argument over a simple topic!
It is (IMO) FINE to mix MOST oil and water-based hormones within the same shot.
In my 1000 shot plus career (how bizarre does that sound?), I have mixed either HCG and oil-based gear, OR Zambon stanozolol and oil-based gear, maybe 100 times.
Apart from the obvious viscosity-induced flow rate variance, I see and have experienced ZERO negative effects from this practice.
And whilst I appreciate RJ saying that he advises against it, because it poses greater (and unnecessary) risk. My education into histopathology and other stuff has NOT lead me to any other conclusions than those which initially lead me down the path of including oil and water in one syringe.
Of course oil and water don’t mix either inside or outside the body. With all due respect to RJs vet friend. HOW is this relevant? It isn’t. The oil based gear and the water based gear may interact in some trivial, and essentially benign way to mildly affect the dispersal rates of each other, but the effects will be insignificant, I feel.
However I will add one caveat. I speak from experience of using certain proven combinations. IF you use certain drugs that interact with each other biochemically whilst in the syringe, i.e. they are incompatible for some reason, then YES, you could end up with some problems, or not…
A case in point - combining IGF1 and insulin in the same shot is not a good idea, because the acidity of the IGF1 ‘keeper solution’ (the acetic acid soln.) may dissociate the insulin peptide into something useless.
I’ve seen this with my own eyes when the 6iu of insulin turned into a semi-solid, cloudy ‘plug’ in the barel, upon inclusion of 40mcg of IGF1…!
For those non-feedstock/animal husbandry/RN/medical people amongst us, the difference between ‘cottage cheese’ and ‘grape juice’ that RJ refers to, is the organism that caused the infection. ‘Cottage cheese’ is usually caused by the organism mycobacterium bovis, mycobacterium tuberculosis and others.
This is called ‘caseous necrosis’. ‘Grape juice’ on the other hand, is caused by different bacteria or fungal infections, causing a different immune response within the body, and is usually referred to as ‘liquefactive necrosis’.
Neither have anything to do with oil/water mix injections as far as I can gather from the texts, or from the application of logic.
Infected abscesses form, or do not form, based upon contamination, not based upon whether the shot contains a mix of oil and water.
It’s all about trying to avoid an abscess. You take no unnecessary risks with the cattle in an effort to avoid IM abscesses. The resoning for this should be quite obvious.
An old-school feedlot veterinarian is not going to cite chapter and verse clinical reasons for not mixing injections. They tend to speak in common sense rather than, “look at me I read a book”-ese.
As for the abscess reference - the guy wanted to know how there could be an abscess while injecting antibiotics. Cottage cheese is a sign of necrosis and/or infection. Grape juice is a sign of a sterile abscess. But injecting syringe full of antibiotics can cause just as big an abscess as anything out there.
My opposition to mixing does not have a damn thing to do with absorption. It is all about what kind of trauma you are causing at the injection site.
I find it funny that you laugh about the discussion in this thread, and then you proceed to launch into the longest post so far.