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Mixing Anaconda and Whey Hydrolyzate?


#1

CT,

I had stocked up on MAG-10 and Anaconda when they were on sale a few months back (the 4 tub bundles, BRING THEM BACK :)), but recently ran out of MAG-10. I still have almost 4 tubs of Anaconda left, and was wondering what I should be mixing it with during my workouts. Lately, I have been doing

2 scoops Anaconda
25g Hydrolyzed whey
70g dextrose

It's obvious the hydrolyzed whey isn't as fast absorbing as Anaconda, but is this actually detrimental to the benefits of Anaconda? I obviously don't want to take an extra 2 scoops of Anaconda to replace the MAG-10, because of all the added ingredients. What do you think?

Thanks coach


#2

hydrolyzed whey is nearly as fast as CH. If you just add in the missing amount of leucine from the MAG-10, it should be similar.


#3

That's what I thought. It's not like I'm adding whey concentrate or anything lol

Thanks, Davinci


#4

This is something that should be clarified outright.....Whey Hydrolysates and Ch would be a good mix....if whey is better in some aminos and CH in others..they are both absorbed quickly...there should be a no real differnce or none that we should consider significant...i think MAG-10 has added Lucine because Whey is richer in Lucine naturally


#5

2 things:

1) MAG-10 has much more leucine added than whey has naturally. We are talking on the order of 5g or so (I don't have the specific breakdown because Biotest has a proprietary formula, but looking at the numbers on the back of the bottle it's pretty straight forward to estimate--leucine is most likely between 4g-9g depending on how much citrulline malate is in each scoop). This is much more than a scoop of whey protein contains naturally.

2) Speed depends on the degree of hydrolysis. Not all--or even most--of the "whey hydrolysates" on the market are anywhere near as fast as the casein hydrolysate in MAG-10 or PeptoPro. This is a simple cost cutting procedure on the part of the companies--extensively hydrolyzing whey down to di- and tri-peptides is both expensive in it's own right than just running it through 1 or 2 passes of industrial hydrolysis (to get large peptides), and more problematic from a flavoring standpoint because the small peptides are, to phrase it nicely, bitter as fuck-all.

Additionally, thus far data from studies indicates that only di- and tri-peptides can be absorbed without first being subject to brush border hydrolysis, which slows down nutrient transport by taking things. di and tri peptides absorb even quicker than free amino acids.

So, in order to get a true "whey hydrolysate" that acts "as fast as" casein hydrolysates of the same degree is very expensive and consequently not done by most companies. Most proteins billed as "whey hydrolysate" are not nearly as fast as they would like you to think. Faster than isolates or concentrate, yes. As fast as you think? Not nearly. So pick your "hydrolyzed whey" protein very carefully if you really want the benefits.

Therefore a mix of the two may not be superior, particularly if the whey has a low degree of hydrolysis or not enough di/tri peptides as a % of the serving.


#6

Excellent post


#7

x2

Thanks, Aragorn!


#8

I assume that anyone purchasing MAG-10 would check the supplier for WH...in the UK there is a very good supplier and the product tested....i just dont agree that CH or WH are superior over one another even the best ones....MAG-10 is a great product in USA but in the Uk its expensive...its cheaper to get peptopro and add the lecuine and CM....unless ur an elite level athlete i dont think its going to make much differnce....


#9

PeptoPro IS casein hydrolysate. It's practically the SAME THING as MAG-10 except without the extra leucine and CM added. PeptoPro IS NOT whey protein!! Not unless there's some other protein also named 'peptopro' that also comes from protein factory and is based in the UK. I know of only one brand, and that IS CH, not WH!

If you are arguing on the other hand that a mass market whey "hydrolyslate" is not in fact inferior to high degree casein hydrolysate, then you simply are not paying attention to the data. There are maybe, maybe, a couple whey hydrolysates that are hydrolyzed to the high degree they need to be to absorb as fast as the CH proteins above such as MAG-10 and peptopro. They might, or might not, be approximately as quick. But they are expensive and hard to find. The mass market whey proteins are simply inferior for quick absorption based on straight science.


#10

I'm going to send you a PM if you don't mind.


#11

I will add that the highest degree of whey protein hydrolysis I have seen is a protein with an average molecular weight of 520 Daltons, with 70% of the proteins in the mix having a weight of 1000 Daltons or less. This also happens to be the company that makes PeptoPro.

Now, there might be other companies with whey hydrolysates that are more highly hydrolyzed on average, or equally so. And in fact I know of one company that advertises its whey protein as having 50 % (or 55 % I'm not sure) di- and tri-peptides. Which means that at least some of the protein will hit you about as quick as MAG-10 if they are true to advertising claims. However I have no idea what the rest of their protein mix is hydrolyzed to because I can't find their data. However, the average molecular weight for an amino acid is approximately 135 Daltons. This means that 270-395 daltons is the weight of a di or tri peptide that will be absorbed. There is some variation of the weights of course, because amino acids do weigh different amounts. For instance tryptophan is heaviest and weighs ~204 D, so that's between 400-612 D for a di/tri peptide. But this is a good estimate of the weights involved.

This also means that an average weight of 520 Daltons is STILL too big (on average) to pass without first going through brush border hydrolysis, which slows up entry into the blood stream. So even they best whey that I know of is not as fast as PeptoPro or MAG-10.

**EDITED for faulty math :frowning: