Misconceptions of Christianity 2

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
OK so recap.

Atheism is not a religion or a belief system. To be a belief system it would have to be the belief in something. It is not. It is the lack of belief in a god. You can be an atheist and a communist. Communism would be your belief system. The atheism just denotes that you don’t believe in a god. You can also be an atheist Capitalist.

Of course you can be a Catholic Communist (at certain points of his life Stalin was this, he was also clearly nuts) you can also be a Christian Socialist (Hitler, though his beliefs seem to have changed throughout his life, he clearly states in many documented conversations and writings that he believes in God.)

The one common theme for Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler and Stalin is that they were all raised and educated within a religion. Could they have turned out differently were they raised to think more critically? Of course I don’t know, it would be purely speculation but it makes as much sense to blame their later killing sprees on their religious education as it does to blame it on their atheism.

@Brother Chris - Sorry, got my consonants mixed up. YHW. By the way, the whole G-D thing, do you think he really cares?

@anyone who thinks Mother Teresa was a really good woman. Read the book I linked in the other post then get back to me.[/quote]

I do not know, he may not, it is just what I learned when I was little.

Well I might take a look at it, but it was written by Christopher Hitchens, which right now I am praying for, but I’m not sure if he is a good person to be writing something like that. I mean he isn’t even respectful with the Title, so credibility just went down with that title.[/quote]

LOL, it does make me want to stand in front of you shouting Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah like in Monty Python Life of Brian.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
<<< I’d like to read that.
[/quote]
Well, here’s Romans 1:18-23 again:

[quote]18-For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19-because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20-For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21-For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22-Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23-and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.[/quote] Here Paul says in essence that He has revealed Himself “within them” (His remaining though corrupt image) and “to them” (through the rest of creation) so that they are without excuse (no valid claim of the non existence of Himself). They swap places with God (in their own minds) in this case worshipping themselves (corruptible man).

This passage begins with the apostle declaring right up front that fallen man actively suppresses this truth in their own unrighteousness. Every utterance in denial of this serves only to further demonstrate it’s truth. Hence, a man deceives himself and attempts to deceive me when he declares that he is an “atheist”.(no god) Or God, who says through Paul that everybody “clearly sees” His “invisible attributes”, “eternal power” and “divine nature” is Himself a liar which is impossible.
[/quote]

Very nice - Sir Thomas Browne says much the same in Religio Medici - I’m betting he was commenting on that passage and I missed it.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
<<< As we learned from the previous thread; >>>[/quote]
“Atheists” have no problem talking about themselves in a rather ongoing fashion so I must profess my skepticism at the projected duration of such a thread.

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

I wouldn’t trust Hitchens with much - I certainly wouldn’t trust him on anything having to do with Christianity. He’s got a major axe to grind; and one can hear the grinding going on in the background every time he puts pen to paper or his toungue wags.

I actually feel sorry for the man; but not enough to believe much of what he says. I hope he gets well. Even more - I hope he comes to his senses; he’s doing an awful lot of damage by spreading his nonsense.

[/quote]
Read the book, he makes his sources very clear. I agree he has an axe to grind against organised religion. His book ‘God is not great’ is pretty clear on that.

His style is to be a contrarian. He looks for people who stick themselves on the pedestal as paragons of virtue then points out the other side to them.

Doesn’t mean he is wrong though.

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
<<< I’d like to read that.
[/quote]
Well, here’s Romans 1:18-23 again:

[quote]18-For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19-because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20-For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21-For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22-Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23-and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.[/quote] Here Paul says in essence that He has revealed Himself “within them” (His remaining though corrupt image) and “to them” (through the rest of creation) so that they are without excuse (no valid claim of the non existence of Himself). They swap places with God (in their own minds) in this case worshipping themselves (corruptible man).

This passage begins with the apostle declaring right up front that fallen man actively suppresses this truth in their own unrighteousness. Every utterance in denial of this serves only to further demonstrate it’s truth. Hence, a man deceives himself and attempts to deceive me when he declares that he is an “atheist”.(no god) Or God, who says through Paul that everybody “clearly sees” His “invisible attributes”, “eternal power” and “divine nature” is Himself a liar which is impossible.
[/quote]

Very nice - Sir Thomas Browne says much the same in Religio Medici - I’m betting he was commenting on that passage and I missed it.

[/quote]
"Without God, there are no “atheists”. G.K. Chesterton =]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Yeah but Atheism is not a dogmatic belief system >>>[/quote]Another fatal characteristic of a bankrupt and worthless pseudo belief system.
[/quote]

I don’t know Trib - I agree with Chesterton that man is a dogma creating animal; he cannot not create dogma, however false.

I love this: “When a Man stops believing in God he doesn’t then believe in nothing, he believes anything.” ~G.K. Chesterton

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
OK so recap.

Atheism is not a religion or a belief system. To be a belief system it would have to be the beleif in something. It is not. It is the lack of belief in a god. You can be an atheist and a communist. Communism would be your belief system. The atheism just denotes that you don’t believe in a god. You can also be an atheist Capitalist.

Of course you can be a Catholic Communist (at certain points of his life Stalin was this, he was also clearly nuts) you can also be a Christian Socialist (Hitler, though his beliefs seem to have changed throughout his life, he clearly states in many documented conversations and writings that he believes in God.)

The one common theme for Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler and Stalin is that they were all raised and educated within a religion. Could they have turned out differently were they raised to think more critically? Of course I don’t know, it would be purely speculation but it makes as much sense to blame their later killing sprees on their religious education as it does to blame it on their atheism.

@Brother Chris - Sorry, got my consonants mixed up. YHW. By the way, the whole G-D thing, do you think he really cares?

@anyone who thinks Mother Teresa was a really good woman. Read the book I linked in the other post then get back to me.[/quote]

You need to specify positive or negative atheism. Commonly we are talking about positive atheism. This is a belief that there is no god. Negative atheism is no belief in god (commonly referred to as agnostic). Typical atheists do have a specific belief and generally structure their morals around that belief.[/quote]

No, no no no no no and again no.

Atheism means a lack of belief in any god. Simple as that. It is not like Christianity that has a million flavours all claiming to be the one true path. Atheism means a lack of belief in any god.

A = without
Theos = god

Now in addition to being Atheist I might also believe that there is definitely no god (which I don’t) or believe that it is unlikely that there is a god based on the evidence available (my position) but that does not change the definition of atheism.[/quote]

Yes yes yes yes yes and yes.

Atheism is a broad term and not all atheists share a common belief about god. There are lots of ways to define atheism. I don’t believe in god and I believe there is no god are entirely philosophically distinct AND that distinction is critical to the discussion. YET they both fall into the broad definition of atheism. You cannot say atheism is exactly “Atheism means a lack of belief in any god” and you cannot prove this by word structure. It is much more complex. I was only asking you to be more specific. You are a negative atheist and as such I agree, it’s not much like a religion. However, whether you chose to acknowledge it or not there are a lot of positive atheists out there, and they are not much different than a theist.

[i]Positive vs. negative
Main article: Negative and positive atheism

Philosophers such as Antony Flew,[38] and Michael Martin,[30] have contrasted positive (strong/hard) atheism with negative (weak/soft) atheism. Positive atheism is the explicit affirmation that gods do not exist. Negative atheism includes all other forms of non-theism. According to this categorization, anyone who is not a theist is either a negative or a positive atheist.[39] The terms weak and strong are relatively recent, while the terms negative and positive atheism are of older origin, having been used (in slightly different ways) in the philosophical literature[38] and in Catholic apologetics[40] since at least 1813.[41][42] Under this demarcation of atheism, most agnostics qualify as negative atheists.

Main Entry: athe·ism
Pronunciation: \Ë?Ä?-thÄ?-Ë?i-zÉ?m
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god
Date: 1546

1 archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity

  1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
  2. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.
    [/i]

est.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
I heard Hitchens opened up hundreds of houses to TRY to administer at least something to the dying, who would otherwise be doing their dying in the streets. Heard he was so committed, he even swore an oath of poverty. I believe Penn and Teller were helping him with the venture. The three living among the poor and all. Our friend Cockney is sure to join up with them. [/quote]

I have no idea about Hitchens’ charitable works because he doesn’t scream and shout about whether or not he does have charitable works. That is not the point. He is not religious so he doesn’t have to abide by the let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

He is just pointing out the fact that the Church holds up Mother Teresa to be some kind of fantastic example when in fact she deliberately prolonged people’s suffering.

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

I wouldn’t trust Hitchens with much - I certainly wouldn’t trust him on anything having to do with Christianity. He’s got a major axe to grind; and one can hear the grinding going on in the background every time he puts pen to paper or his toungue wags.

I actually feel sorry for the man; but not enough to believe much of what he says. I hope he gets well. Even more - I hope he comes to his senses; he’s doing an awful lot of damage by spreading his nonsense.

[/quote]

Well never the less we should pray for him, he is in bed rest right now. He’s sick with something awful. And yes it is a little troublesome to believe a man that has an invested interest in the subject, but if he has a valid, sound, and good argument we should hear him. Although, from reading his other arguments, he does not.

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
OK so recap.

Atheism is not a religion or a belief system. To be a belief system it would have to be the belief in something. It is not. It is the lack of belief in a god. You can be an atheist and a communist. Communism would be your belief system. The atheism just denotes that you don’t believe in a god. You can also be an atheist Capitalist.

Of course you can be a Catholic Communist (at certain points of his life Stalin was this, he was also clearly nuts) you can also be a Christian Socialist (Hitler, though his beliefs seem to have changed throughout his life, he clearly states in many documented conversations and writings that he believes in God.)

The one common theme for Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler and Stalin is that they were all raised and educated within a religion. Could they have turned out differently were they raised to think more critically? Of course I don’t know, it would be purely speculation but it makes as much sense to blame their later killing sprees on their religious education as it does to blame it on their atheism.

@Brother Chris - Sorry, got my consonants mixed up. YHW. By the way, the whole G-D thing, do you think he really cares?

@anyone who thinks Mother Teresa was a really good woman. Read the book I linked in the other post then get back to me.[/quote]

I do not know, he may not, it is just what I learned when I was little.

Well I might take a look at it, but it was written by Christopher Hitchens, which right now I am praying for, but I’m not sure if he is a good person to be writing something like that. I mean he isn’t even respectful with the Title, so credibility just went down with that title.[/quote]

LOL, it does make me want to stand in front of you shouting Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah like in Monty Python Life of Brian.[/quote]

What? All I said was his credibility is kind of hurt with that title.

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
OK so recap.

Atheism is not a religion or a belief system. To be a belief system it would have to be the beleif in something. It is not. It is the lack of belief in a god. You can be an atheist and a communist. Communism would be your belief system. The atheism just denotes that you don’t believe in a god. You can also be an atheist Capitalist.

Of course you can be a Catholic Communist (at certain points of his life Stalin was this, he was also clearly nuts) you can also be a Christian Socialist (Hitler, though his beliefs seem to have changed throughout his life, he clearly states in many documented conversations and writings that he believes in God.)

The one common theme for Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler and Stalin is that they were all raised and educated within a religion. Could they have turned out differently were they raised to think more critically? Of course I don’t know, it would be purely speculation but it makes as much sense to blame their later killing sprees on their religious education as it does to blame it on their atheism.

@Brother Chris - Sorry, got my consonants mixed up. YHW. By the way, the whole G-D thing, do you think he really cares?

@anyone who thinks Mother Teresa was a really good woman. Read the book I linked in the other post then get back to me.[/quote]

You need to specify positive or negative atheism. Commonly we are talking about positive atheism. This is a belief that there is no god. Negative atheism is no belief in god (commonly referred to as agnostic). Typical atheists do have a specific belief and generally structure their morals around that belief.[/quote]

No, no no no no no and again no.

Atheism means a lack of belief in any god. Simple as that. It is not like Christianity that has a million flavours all claiming to be the one true path. Atheism means a lack of belief in any god.

A = without
Theos = god

Now in addition to being Atheist I might also believe that there is definitely no god (which I don’t) or believe that it is unlikely that there is a god based on the evidence available (my position) but that does not change the definition of atheism.[/quote]
You might want to start a “Misconceptions of atheism” thread. I’d be happy to have the second post wherein I would include my oft cited piece from Romans 1 denying there is any such thing as true “atheism”.[/quote]

Yeah but Atheism is not a dogmatic belief system so it should be a very short thread.

Atheism means without god. The end.[/quote]

I’ll just cut and paste from above so we don’t miss the opportunity to address this. LOL.

It’s impossible to live without a God. Impossible. If God is not at the center of your life, then you will invariably worship any number of false “gods.” Power, money, status…or, what it often really boils down to: worshipping one’s self as a “god.” Think about it. That’s why Atheism really doesn’t exist.
[/quote]

People managed fine for literally millions of years before a small group of people in the middle east decided that the War god from their polytheistic religion was more powerful than the other gods and they should start to pray exclusively to that one.

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
It is not like Christianity that has a million flavours all claiming to be the one true path. [/quote]

CB there might be “million flavours” of Christianity, but we all believe that Jesus is the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE and no one comes unto the Father except through Jesus. We might have our disagreements about different topics, Mary, Saints, Communion, Music, 6000 year old earth, but those do not matter as long as you have a personal relationship with Christ. If you invite Jesus into your heart, repent and believe that he is the Christ, Died for your sins, was ressurected on the 3rd day, and assended into heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father, then you to can be saved. Jesus is standing there wanting to be with you. He stands at the door and knocks. He wants what is best for you. He wants to show you how much he loves you. He can change your life all you have to do is seek him with your whole heart, and he will forgive you of your sins, and change you.

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

I wouldn’t trust Hitchens with much - I certainly wouldn’t trust him on anything having to do with Christianity. He’s got a major axe to grind; and one can hear the grinding going on in the background every time he puts pen to paper or his toungue wags.

I actually feel sorry for the man; but not enough to believe much of what he says. I hope he gets well. Even more - I hope he comes to his senses; he’s doing an awful lot of damage by spreading his nonsense.

[/quote]
Read the book, he makes his sources very clear. I agree he has an axe to grind against organised religion. His book ‘God is not great’ is pretty clear on that.

His style is to be a contrarian. He looks for people who stick themselves on the pedestal as paragons of virtue then points out the other side to them.

Doesn’t mean he is wrong though.[/quote]

I like his brother, Peter Hitchens.

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
OK so recap.

Atheism is not a religion or a belief system. To be a belief system it would have to be the beleif in something. It is not. It is the lack of belief in a god. You can be an atheist and a communist. Communism would be your belief system. The atheism just denotes that you don’t believe in a god. You can also be an atheist Capitalist.

Of course you can be a Catholic Communist (at certain points of his life Stalin was this, he was also clearly nuts) you can also be a Christian Socialist (Hitler, though his beliefs seem to have changed throughout his life, he clearly states in many documented conversations and writings that he believes in God.)

The one common theme for Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler and Stalin is that they were all raised and educated within a religion. Could they have turned out differently were they raised to think more critically? Of course I don’t know, it would be purely speculation but it makes as much sense to blame their later killing sprees on their religious education as it does to blame it on their atheism.

@Brother Chris - Sorry, got my consonants mixed up. YHW. By the way, the whole G-D thing, do you think he really cares?

@anyone who thinks Mother Teresa was a really good woman. Read the book I linked in the other post then get back to me.[/quote]

You need to specify positive or negative atheism. Commonly we are talking about positive atheism. This is a belief that there is no god. Negative atheism is no belief in god (commonly referred to as agnostic). Typical atheists do have a specific belief and generally structure their morals around that belief.[/quote]

No, no no no no no and again no.

Atheism means a lack of belief in any god. Simple as that. It is not like Christianity that has a million flavours all claiming to be the one true path. Atheism means a lack of belief in any god.

A = without
Theos = god

Now in addition to being Atheist I might also believe that there is definitely no god (which I don’t) or believe that it is unlikely that there is a god based on the evidence available (my position) but that does not change the definition of atheism.[/quote]
You might want to start a “Misconceptions of atheism” thread. I’d be happy to have the second post wherein I would include my oft cited piece from Romans 1 denying there is any such thing as true “atheism”.[/quote]

Yeah but Atheism is not a dogmatic belief system so it should be a very short thread.

Atheism means without god. The end.[/quote]

I’ll just cut and paste from above so we don’t miss the opportunity to address this. LOL.

It’s impossible to live without a God. Impossible. If God is not at the center of your life, then you will invariably worship any number of false “gods.” Power, money, status…or, what it often really boils down to: worshipping one’s self as a “god.” Think about it. That’s why Atheism really doesn’t exist.
[/quote]

People managed fine for literally millions of years before a small group of people in the middle east decided that the War god from their polytheistic religion was more powerful than the other gods and they should start to pray exclusively to that one.[/quote]

Okay, let’s say that’s true. They may have managed “fine” - I don’t really agree with that - but let’s say they did. They still worshipped a “god” of some sort. It’s inescapable.

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
OK so recap.

Atheism is not a religion or a belief system. To be a belief system it would have to be the beleif in something. It is not. It is the lack of belief in a god. You can be an atheist and a communist. Communism would be your belief system. The atheism just denotes that you don’t believe in a god. You can also be an atheist Capitalist.

Of course you can be a Catholic Communist (at certain points of his life Stalin was this, he was also clearly nuts) you can also be a Christian Socialist (Hitler, though his beliefs seem to have changed throughout his life, he clearly states in many documented conversations and writings that he believes in God.)

The one common theme for Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler and Stalin is that they were all raised and educated within a religion. Could they have turned out differently were they raised to think more critically? Of course I don’t know, it would be purely speculation but it makes as much sense to blame their later killing sprees on their religious education as it does to blame it on their atheism.

@Brother Chris - Sorry, got my consonants mixed up. YHW. By the way, the whole G-D thing, do you think he really cares?

@anyone who thinks Mother Teresa was a really good woman. Read the book I linked in the other post then get back to me.[/quote]

You need to specify positive or negative atheism. Commonly we are talking about positive atheism. This is a belief that there is no god. Negative atheism is no belief in god (commonly referred to as agnostic). Typical atheists do have a specific belief and generally structure their morals around that belief.[/quote]

No, no no no no no and again no.

Atheism means a lack of belief in any god. Simple as that. It is not like Christianity that has a million flavours all claiming to be the one true path. Atheism means a lack of belief in any god.

A = without
Theos = god

Now in addition to being Atheist I might also believe that there is definitely no god (which I don’t) or believe that it is unlikely that there is a god based on the evidence available (my position) but that does not change the definition of atheism.[/quote]
You might want to start a “Misconceptions of atheism” thread. I’d be happy to have the second post wherein I would include my oft cited piece from Romans 1 denying there is any such thing as true “atheism”.[/quote]

Yeah but Atheism is not a dogmatic belief system so it should be a very short thread.

Atheism means without god. The end.[/quote]

I’ll just cut and paste from above so we don’t miss the opportunity to address this. LOL.

It’s impossible to live without a God. Impossible. If God is not at the center of your life, then you will invariably worship any number of false “gods.” Power, money, status…or, what it often really boils down to: worshipping one’s self as a “god.” Think about it. That’s why Atheism really doesn’t exist.
[/quote]

People managed fine for literally millions of years before a small group of people in the middle east decided that the War god from their polytheistic religion was more powerful than the other gods and they should start to pray exclusively to that one.[/quote]

Thank you, you have shown me the true path. Atheism, here I come. You still have not backed up your claim about his polytheism and war god.

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
I’ll just cut and paste from above so we don’t miss the opportunity to address this. LOL.

It’s impossible to live without a God. Impossible. If God is not at the center of your life, then you will invariably worship any number of false “gods.” Power, money, status…or, what it often really boils down to: worshipping one’s self as a “god.” Think about it. That’s why Atheism really doesn’t exist.
[/quote]

I don’t know why I keep posting because nobody seems to listen or care about what I have to say. What evidence to you have to support your claim that all people need to worship something? I agree that for people who are very religious, there is perhaps a need to worship something, and if you removed God from their lives they would indeed worship something else. But not everyone is like this. I’ve lived without a God for over 20 years now and I’m doing just fine. As difficult as it may be for you to believe, I simply don’t feel the need to “worship” anything. I am simply without a religion and don’t feel the need to have one.

I should add here that I would very much like it if there were a God. There are days when I wish I could believe in a God. That doesn’t prove that one exists.

I don’t doubt that some atheists/agnostics worship money, power, themselves, but not all are like this. I’m not like this, and my atheist/agnostic friends are not like this. This is similar to saying that all Catholic priests are pedophiles. Even I don’t make that assertion.

BTW - I know many Christians who, despite their religion, are very much into money and worshiping themselves. I’ve met my share of selfish Christians. This is one of the reasons why I am so skeptical of the fact that religion does any good. I have no doubt that religion has a positive affect on some people and causes them to lead good lives. But I’ve seen far too many “bad” who claimed to be “good Christians.”

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

Yeah but Atheism is not a dogmatic belief system .[/quote]

False.

As we learned from the previous thread;

Atheists can’t murder

Atheism invoked in wrong doing ceases to be atheism

Despots can’t be atheists

Atheists must be capitalists

Otherwise, they’re excommunicated from the one true Atheism. Therefore, we can’t find atheists doing bad stuff! Not only that, but what appears to be atheists doing bad stuff, even in the name of atheism, is actually religion doing bad stuff![/quote]

Are you actually reading my posts? Atheists can be anything except believers in God. It’s that simple. Atheism doesn’t replace religion. All the time you spend on religion an Atheist might spend on any number of things that have nothing to do with Atheism. Atheism is not complete belief system. It is one small part of someone’s beliefs.

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

They still worshipped a “god” of some sort. It’s inescapable. [/quote]

Evidence, please. Show me evidence that supports this assertion.

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
I’ll just cut and paste from above so we don’t miss the opportunity to address this. LOL.

It’s impossible to live without a God. Impossible. If God is not at the center of your life, then you will invariably worship any number of false “gods.” Power, money, status…or, what it often really boils down to: worshipping one’s self as a “god.” Think about it. That’s why Atheism really doesn’t exist.
[/quote]

I don’t know why I keep posting because nobody seems to listen or care about what I have to say. What evidence to you have to support your claim that all people need to worship something? I agree that for people who are very religious, there is perhaps a need to worship something, and if you removed God from their lives they would indeed worship something else. But not everyone is like this. I’ve lived without a God for over 20 years now and I’m doing just fine. As difficult as it may be for you to believe, I simply don’t feel the need to “worship” anything. I am simply without a religion and don’t feel the need to have one.

I should add here that I would very much like it if there were a God. There are days when I wish I could believe in a God. That doesn’t prove that one exists.

I don’t doubt that some atheists/agnostics worship money, power, themselves, but not all are like this. I’m not like this, and my atheist/agnostic friends are not like this. This is similar to saying that all Catholic priests are pedophiles. Even I don’t make that assertion.

BTW - I know many Christians who, despite their religion, are very much into money and worshiping themselves. I’ve met my share of selfish Christians. This is one of the reasons why I am so skeptical of the fact that religion does any good. I have no doubt that religion has a positive affect on some people and causes them to lead good lives. But I’ve seen far too many “bad” who claimed to be “good Christians.”[/quote]

I agree there are many imperfect Christians. I am one of them. Only Saints even approach anything like being a “good Christian.” Anyway, in the flurry of all the posting sometimes a post or two isn’t responded to - please don’t take it personally.

I don’t think it’s possible not to have something at the center of your life that you pay homage to and treat as a God.

Now this is usually unconcious, no doubt. If you look at your own life, carefully, you’ll no doubt find something that you put at the center of it. It is your first priority; and it determines much of the content of your thoughts and actions.

Now, I’m sure you’d at least admit to that.

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

Yeah but Atheism is not a dogmatic belief system .[/quote]

False.

As we learned from the previous thread;

Atheists can’t murder

Atheism invoked in wrong doing ceases to be atheism

Despots can’t be atheists

Atheists must be capitalists

Otherwise, they’re excommunicated from the one true Atheism. Therefore, we can’t find atheists doing bad stuff! Not only that, but what appears to be atheists doing bad stuff, even in the name of atheism, is actually religion doing bad stuff![/quote]

Are you actually reading my posts? Atheists can be anything except believers in God. It’s that simple. Atheism doesn’t replace religion. All the time you spend on religion an Atheist might spend on any number of things that have nothing to do with Atheism. Atheism is not complete belief system. It is one small part of someone’s beliefs.[/quote]

Huh, that’s strange. I seem to recall a whole lot of caveats being tacked on as to why despotic atheists aren’t atheists. And, as to why state atheism is actually a religion.