T Nation

Misconceptions of Christianity 2

Continue on here, I sorta got lost towards the end with the amount of replies but lets be respectful to each other.

Will someone post the Doctrine of Mary link again? I can not find it anywhere, and Google sucks for that type of search. Brings up all the Catholic Bashing Websites. I want the best link that my Catholic brothers all agree on.

Here’s an interesting one:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p6.htm

Actually it’s a pretty good bet this http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm or this http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent.html will not be disputed by any catholic as authoritative for just about anything

OK so recap.

Atheism is not a religion or a belief system. To be a belief system it would have to be the beleif in something. It is not. It is the lack of belief in a god. You can be an atheist and a communist. Communism would be your belief system. The atheism just denotes that you don’t believe in a god. You can also be an atheist Capitalist.

Of course you can be a Catholic Communist (at certain points of his life Stalin was this, he was also clearly nuts) you can also be a Christian Socialist (Hitler, though his beliefs seem to have changed throughout his life, he clearly states in many documented conversations and writings that he believes in God.)

The one common theme for Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler and Stalin is that they were all raised and educated within a religion. Could they have turned out differently were they raised to think more critically? Of course I don’t know, it would be purely speculation but it makes as much sense to blame their later killing sprees on their religious education as it does to blame it on their atheism.

@Brother Chris - Sorry, got my consonants mixed up. YHW. By the way, the whole G-D thing, do you think he really cares?

@anyone who thinks Mother Teresa was a really good woman. Read the book I linked in the other post then get back to me.

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
OK so recap.

Atheism is not a religion or a belief system. To be a belief system it would have to be the beleif in something. It is not. It is the lack of belief in a god. You can be an atheist and a communist. Communism would be your belief system. The atheism just denotes that you don’t believe in a god. You can also be an atheist Capitalist.

Of course you can be a Catholic Communist (at certain points of his life Stalin was this, he was also clearly nuts) you can also be a Christian Socialist (Hitler, though his beliefs seem to have changed throughout his life, he clearly states in many documented conversations and writings that he believes in God.)

The one common theme for Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler and Stalin is that they were all raised and educated within a religion. Could they have turned out differently were they raised to think more critically? Of course I don’t know, it would be purely speculation but it makes as much sense to blame their later killing sprees on their religious education as it does to blame it on their atheism.

@Brother Chris - Sorry, got my consonants mixed up. YHW. By the way, the whole G-D thing, do you think he really cares?

@anyone who thinks Mother Teresa was a really good woman. Read the book I linked in the other post then get back to me.[/quote]

You need to specify positive or negative atheism. Commonly we are talking about positive atheism. This is a belief that there is no god. Negative atheism is no belief in god (commonly referred to as agnostic). Typical atheists do have a specific belief and generally structure their morals around that belief.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
OK so recap.

Atheism is not a religion or a belief system. To be a belief system it would have to be the beleif in something. It is not. It is the lack of belief in a god. You can be an atheist and a communist. Communism would be your belief system. The atheism just denotes that you don’t believe in a god. You can also be an atheist Capitalist.

Of course you can be a Catholic Communist (at certain points of his life Stalin was this, he was also clearly nuts) you can also be a Christian Socialist (Hitler, though his beliefs seem to have changed throughout his life, he clearly states in many documented conversations and writings that he believes in God.)

The one common theme for Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler and Stalin is that they were all raised and educated within a religion. Could they have turned out differently were they raised to think more critically? Of course I don’t know, it would be purely speculation but it makes as much sense to blame their later killing sprees on their religious education as it does to blame it on their atheism.

@Brother Chris - Sorry, got my consonants mixed up. YHW. By the way, the whole G-D thing, do you think he really cares?

@anyone who thinks Mother Teresa was a really good woman. Read the book I linked in the other post then get back to me.[/quote]

You need to specify positive or negative atheism. Commonly we are talking about positive atheism. This is a belief that there is no god. Negative atheism is no belief in god (commonly referred to as agnostic). Typical atheists do have a specific belief and generally structure their morals around that belief.[/quote]

True, it does depend on which denomination we’re talking about.

Rubbing salt into a wound, I am. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
OK so recap.

Atheism is not a religion or a belief system. To be a belief system it would have to be the beleif in something. It is not. It is the lack of belief in a god. You can be an atheist and a communist. Communism would be your belief system. The atheism just denotes that you don’t believe in a god. You can also be an atheist Capitalist.

Of course you can be a Catholic Communist (at certain points of his life Stalin was this, he was also clearly nuts) you can also be a Christian Socialist (Hitler, though his beliefs seem to have changed throughout his life, he clearly states in many documented conversations and writings that he believes in God.)

The one common theme for Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler and Stalin is that they were all raised and educated within a religion. Could they have turned out differently were they raised to think more critically? Of course I don’t know, it would be purely speculation but it makes as much sense to blame their later killing sprees on their religious education as it does to blame it on their atheism.

@Brother Chris - Sorry, got my consonants mixed up. YHW. By the way, the whole G-D thing, do you think he really cares?

@anyone who thinks Mother Teresa was a really good woman. Read the book I linked in the other post then get back to me.[/quote]

You need to specify positive or negative atheism. Commonly we are talking about positive atheism. This is a belief that there is no god. Negative atheism is no belief in god (commonly referred to as agnostic). Typical atheists do have a specific belief and generally structure their morals around that belief.[/quote]

No, no no no no no and again no.

Atheism means a lack of belief in any god. Simple as that. It is not like Christianity that has a million flavours all claiming to be the one true path. Atheism means a lack of belief in any god.

A = without
Theos = god

Now in addition to being Atheist I might also believe that there is definitely no god (which I don’t) or believe that it is unlikely that there is a god based on the evidence available (my position) but that does not change the definition of atheism.

Are you also lacking a belief that there is a lack of evidence to believe or rule out the existence of a diety?

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
OK so recap.

Atheism is not a religion or a belief system. To be a belief system it would have to be the beleif in something. It is not. It is the lack of belief in a god. You can be an atheist and a communist. Communism would be your belief system. The atheism just denotes that you don’t believe in a god. You can also be an atheist Capitalist.

Of course you can be a Catholic Communist (at certain points of his life Stalin was this, he was also clearly nuts) you can also be a Christian Socialist (Hitler, though his beliefs seem to have changed throughout his life, he clearly states in many documented conversations and writings that he believes in God.)

The one common theme for Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler and Stalin is that they were all raised and educated within a religion. Could they have turned out differently were they raised to think more critically? Of course I don’t know, it would be purely speculation but it makes as much sense to blame their later killing sprees on their religious education as it does to blame it on their atheism.

@Brother Chris - Sorry, got my consonants mixed up. YHW. By the way, the whole G-D thing, do you think he really cares?

@anyone who thinks Mother Teresa was a really good woman. Read the book I linked in the other post then get back to me.[/quote]

You need to specify positive or negative atheism. Commonly we are talking about positive atheism. This is a belief that there is no god. Negative atheism is no belief in god (commonly referred to as agnostic). Typical atheists do have a specific belief and generally structure their morals around that belief.[/quote]

No, no no no no no and again no.

Atheism means a lack of belief in any god. Simple as that. It is not like Christianity that has a million flavours all claiming to be the one true path. Atheism means a lack of belief in any god.

A = without
Theos = god

Now in addition to being Atheist I might also believe that there is definitely no god (which I don’t) or believe that it is unlikely that there is a god based on the evidence available (my position) but that does not change the definition of atheism.[/quote]

It’s impossible to live without a God. Impossible. If God is not at the center of your life, then you worship any number of false “gods.” Power, money, status…or, what it often really boils down to: worshipping one’s self as a “god.” Think about it. That’s why Atheism really doesn’t exist.

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
OK so recap.

Atheism is not a religion or a belief system. To be a belief system it would have to be the beleif in something. It is not. It is the lack of belief in a god. You can be an atheist and a communist. Communism would be your belief system. The atheism just denotes that you don’t believe in a god. You can also be an atheist Capitalist.

Of course you can be a Catholic Communist (at certain points of his life Stalin was this, he was also clearly nuts) you can also be a Christian Socialist (Hitler, though his beliefs seem to have changed throughout his life, he clearly states in many documented conversations and writings that he believes in God.)

The one common theme for Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler and Stalin is that they were all raised and educated within a religion. Could they have turned out differently were they raised to think more critically? Of course I don’t know, it would be purely speculation but it makes as much sense to blame their later killing sprees on their religious education as it does to blame it on their atheism.

@Brother Chris - Sorry, got my consonants mixed up. YHW. By the way, the whole G-D thing, do you think he really cares?

@anyone who thinks Mother Teresa was a really good woman. Read the book I linked in the other post then get back to me.[/quote]

You need to specify positive or negative atheism. Commonly we are talking about positive atheism. This is a belief that there is no god. Negative atheism is no belief in god (commonly referred to as agnostic). Typical atheists do have a specific belief and generally structure their morals around that belief.[/quote]

No, no no no no no and again no.

Atheism means a lack of belief in any god. Simple as that. It is not like Christianity that has a million flavours all claiming to be the one true path. Atheism means a lack of belief in any god.

A = without
Theos = god

Now in addition to being Atheist I might also believe that there is definitely no god (which I don’t) or believe that it is unlikely that there is a god based on the evidence available (my position) but that does not change the definition of atheism.[/quote]
You might want to start a “Misconceptions of atheism” thread. I’d be happy to have the second post wherein I would include my oft cited piece from Romans 1 denying there is any such thing as true “atheism”.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
OK so recap.

Atheism is not a religion or a belief system. To be a belief system it would have to be the beleif in something. It is not. It is the lack of belief in a god. You can be an atheist and a communist. Communism would be your belief system. The atheism just denotes that you don’t believe in a god. You can also be an atheist Capitalist.

Of course you can be a Catholic Communist (at certain points of his life Stalin was this, he was also clearly nuts) you can also be a Christian Socialist (Hitler, though his beliefs seem to have changed throughout his life, he clearly states in many documented conversations and writings that he believes in God.)

The one common theme for Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler and Stalin is that they were all raised and educated within a religion. Could they have turned out differently were they raised to think more critically? Of course I don’t know, it would be purely speculation but it makes as much sense to blame their later killing sprees on their religious education as it does to blame it on their atheism.

@Brother Chris - Sorry, got my consonants mixed up. YHW. By the way, the whole G-D thing, do you think he really cares?

@anyone who thinks Mother Teresa was a really good woman. Read the book I linked in the other post then get back to me.[/quote]

You need to specify positive or negative atheism. Commonly we are talking about positive atheism. This is a belief that there is no god. Negative atheism is no belief in god (commonly referred to as agnostic). Typical atheists do have a specific belief and generally structure their morals around that belief.[/quote]

No, no no no no no and again no.

Atheism means a lack of belief in any god. Simple as that. It is not like Christianity that has a million flavours all claiming to be the one true path. Atheism means a lack of belief in any god.

A = without
Theos = god

Now in addition to being Atheist I might also believe that there is definitely no god (which I don’t) or believe that it is unlikely that there is a god based on the evidence available (my position) but that does not change the definition of atheism.[/quote]
You might want to start a “Misconceptions of atheism” thread. I’d be happy to have the second post wherein I would include my oft cited piece from Romans 1 denying there is any such thing as true “atheism”.[/quote]

I’d like to read that.

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
OK so recap.

Atheism is not a religion or a belief system. To be a belief system it would have to be the beleif in something. It is not. It is the lack of belief in a god. You can be an atheist and a communist. Communism would be your belief system. The atheism just denotes that you don’t believe in a god. You can also be an atheist Capitalist.

Of course you can be a Catholic Communist (at certain points of his life Stalin was this, he was also clearly nuts) you can also be a Christian Socialist (Hitler, though his beliefs seem to have changed throughout his life, he clearly states in many documented conversations and writings that he believes in God.)

The one common theme for Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler and Stalin is that they were all raised and educated within a religion. Could they have turned out differently were they raised to think more critically? Of course I don’t know, it would be purely speculation but it makes as much sense to blame their later killing sprees on their religious education as it does to blame it on their atheism.

@Brother Chris - Sorry, got my consonants mixed up. YHW. By the way, the whole G-D thing, do you think he really cares?

@anyone who thinks Mother Teresa was a really good woman. Read the book I linked in the other post then get back to me.[/quote]

I do not know, he may not, it is just what I learned when I was little.

Well I might take a look at it, but it was written by Christopher Hitchens, which right now I am praying for, but I’m not sure if he is a good person to be writing something like that. I mean he isn’t even respectful with the Title, so credibility just went down with that title.

I wouldn’t trust Hitchens with much - I certainly wouldn’t trust him on anything having to do with Christianity. He’s got a major axe to grind; and one can hear the grinding going on in the background every time he puts pen to paper or his toungue wags.

I actually feel sorry for the man; but not enough to believe much of what he says. I hope he gets well. Even more - I hope he comes to his senses; he’s doing an awful lot of damage by spreading his nonsense.

I heard Hitchens opened up hundreds of houses to TRY to administer at least something to the dying, who would otherwise be doing their dying in the streets. Heard he was so committed, he even swore an oath of poverty. I believe Penn and Teller were helping him with the venture. The three living among the poor and all. Our friend Cockney is sure to join up with them.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
OK so recap.

Atheism is not a religion or a belief system. To be a belief system it would have to be the beleif in something. It is not. It is the lack of belief in a god. You can be an atheist and a communist. Communism would be your belief system. The atheism just denotes that you don’t believe in a god. You can also be an atheist Capitalist.

Of course you can be a Catholic Communist (at certain points of his life Stalin was this, he was also clearly nuts) you can also be a Christian Socialist (Hitler, though his beliefs seem to have changed throughout his life, he clearly states in many documented conversations and writings that he believes in God.)

The one common theme for Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler and Stalin is that they were all raised and educated within a religion. Could they have turned out differently were they raised to think more critically? Of course I don’t know, it would be purely speculation but it makes as much sense to blame their later killing sprees on their religious education as it does to blame it on their atheism.

@Brother Chris - Sorry, got my consonants mixed up. YHW. By the way, the whole G-D thing, do you think he really cares?

@anyone who thinks Mother Teresa was a really good woman. Read the book I linked in the other post then get back to me.[/quote]

You need to specify positive or negative atheism. Commonly we are talking about positive atheism. This is a belief that there is no god. Negative atheism is no belief in god (commonly referred to as agnostic). Typical atheists do have a specific belief and generally structure their morals around that belief.[/quote]

No, no no no no no and again no.

Atheism means a lack of belief in any god. Simple as that. It is not like Christianity that has a million flavours all claiming to be the one true path. Atheism means a lack of belief in any god.

A = without
Theos = god

Now in addition to being Atheist I might also believe that there is definitely no god (which I don’t) or believe that it is unlikely that there is a god based on the evidence available (my position) but that does not change the definition of atheism.[/quote]
You might want to start a “Misconceptions of atheism” thread. I’d be happy to have the second post wherein I would include my oft cited piece from Romans 1 denying there is any such thing as true “atheism”.[/quote]

Yeah but Atheism is not a dogmatic belief system so it should be a very short thread.

Atheism means without god. The end.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
I heard Hitchens opened up hundreds of houses to TRY to administer at least something to the dying, who would otherwise be doing their dying in the streets. Heard he was so committed, he even swore an oath of poverty. I believe Penn and Teller were helping him with the venture. The three living among the poor and all. Our friend Cockney is sure to join up with them. [/quote]

Really? Recent thing?

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
<<< I’d like to read that.
[/quote]
Well, here’s Romans 1:18-23 again:

[quote]18-For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19-because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20-For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21-For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22-Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23-and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.[/quote] Here Paul says in essence that He has revealed Himself “within them” (His remaining though corrupt image) and “to them” (through the rest of creation) so that they are without excuse (no valid claim of the non existence of Himself). They swap places with God (in their own minds) in this case worshipping themselves (corruptible man).

This passage begins with the apostle declaring right up front that fallen man actively suppresses this truth in their own unrighteousness. Every utterance in denial of this serves only to further demonstrate it’s truth. Hence, a man deceives himself and attempts to deceive me when he declares that he is an “atheist”.(no god) Or God, who says through Paul that everybody “clearly sees” His “invisible attributes”, “eternal power” and “divine nature” is Himself a liar which is impossible.

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
OK so recap.

Atheism is not a religion or a belief system. To be a belief system it would have to be the beleif in something. It is not. It is the lack of belief in a god. You can be an atheist and a communist. Communism would be your belief system. The atheism just denotes that you don’t believe in a god. You can also be an atheist Capitalist.

Of course you can be a Catholic Communist (at certain points of his life Stalin was this, he was also clearly nuts) you can also be a Christian Socialist (Hitler, though his beliefs seem to have changed throughout his life, he clearly states in many documented conversations and writings that he believes in God.)

The one common theme for Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler and Stalin is that they were all raised and educated within a religion. Could they have turned out differently were they raised to think more critically? Of course I don’t know, it would be purely speculation but it makes as much sense to blame their later killing sprees on their religious education as it does to blame it on their atheism.

@Brother Chris - Sorry, got my consonants mixed up. YHW. By the way, the whole G-D thing, do you think he really cares?

@anyone who thinks Mother Teresa was a really good woman. Read the book I linked in the other post then get back to me.[/quote]

You need to specify positive or negative atheism. Commonly we are talking about positive atheism. This is a belief that there is no god. Negative atheism is no belief in god (commonly referred to as agnostic). Typical atheists do have a specific belief and generally structure their morals around that belief.[/quote]

No, no no no no no and again no.

Atheism means a lack of belief in any god. Simple as that. It is not like Christianity that has a million flavours all claiming to be the one true path. Atheism means a lack of belief in any god.

A = without
Theos = god

Now in addition to being Atheist I might also believe that there is definitely no god (which I don’t) or believe that it is unlikely that there is a god based on the evidence available (my position) but that does not change the definition of atheism.[/quote]
You might want to start a “Misconceptions of atheism” thread. I’d be happy to have the second post wherein I would include my oft cited piece from Romans 1 denying there is any such thing as true “atheism”.[/quote]

Yeah but Atheism is not a dogmatic belief system so it should be a very short thread.

Atheism means without god. The end.[/quote]

I’ll just cut and paste from above so we don’t miss the opportunity to address this. LOL.

It’s impossible to live without a God. Impossible. If God is not at the center of your life, then you will invariably worship any number of false “gods.” Power, money, status…or, what it often really boils down to: worshipping one’s self as a “god.” Think about it. That’s why Atheism really doesn’t exist.

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Yeah but Atheism is not a dogmatic belief system >>>[/quote]Another fatal characteristic of a bankrupt and worthless pseudo belief system.

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

Yeah but Atheism is not a dogmatic belief system .[/quote]

False.

As we learned from the previous thread;

Atheists can’t murder

Atheism invoked in wrong doing ceases to be atheism

Despots can’t be atheists

Atheists must be capitalists

Otherwise, they’re excommunicated from the one true Atheism. Therefore, we can’t find atheists doing bad stuff! Not only that, but what appears to be atheists doing bad stuff, even in the name of atheism, is actually religion doing bad stuff!