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Misconception on Protein


#19

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
Im dropping weigh in a year ive dropped 30 pounds. From reading they suggest to lose uncessary bodyfat before trying to “bulk”, so I atleast want to get to 10% bodyfat and start bulking from there. I train at home and dont have a squat rack so my leg training consist of sumo deadlifts and high rep squats. [/quote]

How will you know when you’ve reached 10%?[/quote]

I wont know exactly as of now Im around 13-15%. When I start to see more definition and less fat and a glimpse of abs. [/quote]

To clarify, you think when you start to see a glimpse of abs you will be around 10%??[/quote]

From what I read yes. [/quote]

Most people will be able to see a general abdominal shape at 15% minimum. I am around 20% by my best guess and some calipers and can see my abs pretty well when they are tight.

Read what CS says under the chart also. Body fat is mostly an arbitrary number so don’t really base anything off of it. Worrying about bodyfat is pretty pointless. Use the scale and take pictures. Pictures work better than the mirror because sometimes we don’t really realize how far we have come because the changes have been gradual. [/quote]

Whoa thats a wake up call Im alot higher then I though if thats accurate Im close to 20%


#20

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
And when you’re at that point, you will start “bulking”?[/quote]

Not really bulking I just will eat alot of meat,chicken, fish and as much protain as I can get my hands on and include alot more volume [/quote]

Three questions:

  1. why aren’t you doing those things now?
  2. why will you start doing those things then?
  3. what do you expect to happen when you do that?

I’m trying to understand your reasoning.


#21

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
And when you’re at that point, you will start “bulking”?[/quote]

Not really bulking I just will eat alot of meat,chicken, fish and as much protain as I can get my hands on and include alot more volume [/quote]

Three questions:

  1. why aren’t you doing those things now?
  2. why will you start doing those things then?
  3. what do you expect to happen when you do that?

I’m trying to understand your reasoning.[/quote]

I honestly havent tooken time to answer those myself. Alot of the times I dont recover so by focusing on primarly 2 or 3 lifts it allows me to be fresh for the next workout. Well by then I hope to have an average strength base as of right now my lifts are extremly weak quite pathetic I would say. My flat bench max is 165 and my deadlift max is 245 squat max is 225


#22

Ok this doesn’t sound good…

Post a pic.


#23

Some spoon-feeding:

Protein
To put on muscle: you need to stimulate the muscle by lifting and provide protein, and provide additional energy in the form of carbs and fat to enable the protein to be used for building muscle

To lose fat: you need to stimulate the muscle by lifting and provide protein, so that your body knows it needs to keep the muscle, and then you can manipulate carbs, fat, cardio and meal timing to burn fat

Research reviews say the “optimal” amount of protein is something like .82g per pound bodyweight. Which, if you’re at 18% bodyfat, is 1g protein per pound lean-body-mass.

Anecdotal evidence says anywhere from .8 to 1.5g protein per pound bodyweight. In fact, a lot of it says you need MORE protein when losing weight than you do when adding muscle.

Lifting
This is based on my own review and reading… but… heavy lifting should be used for both gaining and losing. While at a surplus, you should be getting stronger and/or getting bigger. While at a deficit, you should try to maintain, but many people end up getting a bit weaker. By heavy lifting, I mean something heavier than your 6RM.

Volume seems more relevant when addressing size than it does strength. Either way, most strength-based programs include a decent amount of volume (at least with “accessory” work), and most size-based programs are built very much around volume.

I haven’t found anything – by people who’ve successfully cut weight for a physique or bodybuilding competition – that suggests that more or less volume should be used while cutting. The very last week for a competition, I’ve seen the volume ramped up just to deplete glycogen… but outside of that, nothing.

I admit that everything I’ve read is heavily biased by the writings of the authors on this site, and the successes of the lifters on this site, some current, some in the past.


#24

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
My flat bench max is 165 and my deadlift max is 245 squat max is 225[/quote]
Dude, what have you been doing for the last nine months?

Your strength has dropped across the board and you’ve gone up just a few pounds in bodyweight (so I’m confused about the “dropping 30 pounds in the last year”-thing). Not trying to be a jerk, but whatever you’ve been doing has absolutely not been successful. Your goal is totally fine, but the path you’re trying to take there is all screwed up.

Re-read all the advice you got in that thread, choose any one of the programs I linked to there, and get on it, like starting tomorrow.

Good nutrition and a good program allow for plenty of recovery.

Gotcha, but those exercises weren’t listed in your training plan. Also, not having a rack is a copout. There are plenty of exercise options (step-ups [depending on ceiling height], lunges, RDLs, front squats [one power clean before the set], one-leg work, etc.).

When coaches talk about that, it’s related to things like insulin sensitivity and other factors. However, it’s not relevant to someone in your situation - A young guy whose natural hormones are primed for growth and who’s very tall and relatively-underweight, even if you have some bodyfat.

Losing even more weight, another 10+ pounds based on what you’re saying, will put you even further behind the ball once you start trying to gain more size. Starting ASAP with a focus on building muscle and strength, with smart eating and a well-designed program, is the smart play here.


#25

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
My flat bench max is 165 and my deadlift max is 245 squat max is 225[/quote]
Dude, what have you been doing for the last nine months?

Your strength has dropped across the board and you’ve gone up just a few pounds in bodyweight (so I’m confused about the “dropping 30 pounds in the last year”-thing). Not trying to be a jerk, but whatever you’ve been doing has absolutely not been successful. Your goal is totally fine, but the path you’re trying to take there is all screwed up.

Re-read all the advice you got in that thread, choose any one of the programs I linked to there, and get on it, like starting tomorrow.

Good nutrition and a good program allow for plenty of recovery.

Gotcha, but those exercises weren’t listed in your training plan. Also, not having a rack is a copout. There are plenty of exercise options (step-ups [depending on ceiling height], lunges, RDLs, front squats [one power clean before the set], one-leg work, etc.).

When coaches talk about that, it’s related to things like insulin sensitivity and other factors. However, it’s not relevant to someone in your situation - A young guy whose natural hormones are primed for growth and who’s very tall and relatively-underweight, even if you have some bodyfat.

Losing even more weight, another 10+ pounds based on what you’re saying, will put you even further behind the ball once you start trying to gain more size. Starting ASAP with a focus on building muscle and strength, with smart eating and a well-designed program, is the smart play here.[/quote]

Thank you! Thats the exact critisism I needed. So I should focus on gaining muscle primarly and just forget about losing the bodyfat? You didnt mention anything about diet Im not good with counting calories should I just eat as much “clean foods” as I can get my hands on? (ex. chicken, tuna, steak, salmon, veggies, brown rice, eggs)


#26

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Some spoon-feeding:

Protein
To put on muscle: you need to stimulate the muscle by lifting and provide protein, and provide additional energy in the form of carbs and fat to enable the protein to be used for building muscle

To lose fat: you need to stimulate the muscle by lifting and provide protein, so that your body knows it needs to keep the muscle, and then you can manipulate carbs, fat, cardio and meal timing to burn fat

Research reviews say the “optimal” amount of protein is something like .82g per pound bodyweight. Which, if you’re at 18% bodyfat, is 1g protein per pound lean-body-mass.

Anecdotal evidence says anywhere from .8 to 1.5g protein per pound bodyweight. In fact, a lot of it says you need MORE protein when losing weight than you do when adding muscle.

Lifting
This is based on my own review and reading… but… heavy lifting should be used for both gaining and losing. While at a surplus, you should be getting stronger and/or getting bigger. While at a deficit, you should try to maintain, but many people end up getting a bit weaker. By heavy lifting, I mean something heavier than your 6RM.

Volume seems more relevant when addressing size than it does strength. Either way, most strength-based programs include a decent amount of volume (at least with “accessory” work), and most size-based programs are built very much around volume.

I haven’t found anything – by people who’ve successfully cut weight for a physique or bodybuilding competition – that suggests that more or less volume should be used while cutting. The very last week for a competition, I’ve seen the volume ramped up just to deplete glycogen… but outside of that, nothing.

I admit that everything I’ve read is heavily biased by the writings of the authors on this site, and the successes of the lifters on this site, some current, some in the past.[/quote]

This is amazing imput. This cleared up alot of things thank you.


#27

[quote]dt79 wrote:
Ok this doesn’t sound good…

Post a pic.[/quote]

Sorry cant get good quality hope this helps.


#28

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
My flat bench max is 165 and my deadlift max is 245 squat max is 225[/quote]
Dude, what have you been doing for the last nine months?

Your strength has dropped across the board and you’ve gone up just a few pounds in bodyweight (so I’m confused about the “dropping 30 pounds in the last year”-thing). Not trying to be a jerk, but whatever you’ve been doing has absolutely not been successful. Your goal is totally fine, but the path you’re trying to take there is all screwed up.

Re-read all the advice you got in that thread, choose any one of the programs I linked to there, and get on it, like starting tomorrow.

Good nutrition and a good program allow for plenty of recovery.

Gotcha, but those exercises weren’t listed in your training plan. Also, not having a rack is a copout. There are plenty of exercise options (step-ups [depending on ceiling height], lunges, RDLs, front squats [one power clean before the set], one-leg work, etc.).

When coaches talk about that, it’s related to things like insulin sensitivity and other factors. However, it’s not relevant to someone in your situation - A young guy whose natural hormones are primed for growth and who’s very tall and relatively-underweight, even if you have some bodyfat.

Losing even more weight, another 10+ pounds based on what you’re saying, will put you even further behind the ball once you start trying to gain more size. Starting ASAP with a focus on building muscle and strength, with smart eating and a well-designed program, is the smart play here.[/quote]

Thank you! Thats the exact critisism I needed. So I should focus on gaining muscle primarly and just forget about losing the bodyfat? You didnt mention anything about diet Im not good with counting calories should I just eat as much “clean foods” as I can get my hands on? (ex. chicken, tuna, steak, salmon, veggies, brown rice, eggs)[/quote]

Read this. If you search around this site enough you can find some awesome stuff for diet and training.

Some of my favorite writers are Chris Colucci, who has already chimed in here, Nate Miyaki, Tim Henriques, and Lee Boyce are some of my favorites. CT, Dan John, Matt Kroc, Ben Bruno, Bret Contreras and many others are also awesome. Just look around.


#29

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
Thank you! Thats the exact critisism I needed.[/quote]
Cool. Very glad to help.

But I wasn’t being rhetorical. What have you been doing for the last nine months? What has your training and general diet looked like?

Very yes.

Check the nutrition section I wrote about here:

You definitely don’t have to eat like a bodybuilder, 95% clean. If you’re training hard, you can have the occasional pizza, soda, whatever, even if you’re carrying some fat. You’re a growing guy, so give your body what it needs to grow (ample nutrition) and give it a reason to grow (a tough, well-designed training plan).

You said you feel like shit when you eat carbs. Is that all carbs (bread, oatmeal, rice, beans, potatoes), in any amount, at any time of the day? As has been mentioned, protein is importnat but it isn’t the be-all, end-all of building muscle. Your body needs carbs, healthy fats, and total calories in order to recover and grow.

Also, as a general note, understand that this kind of approach…

… is exactly how you can end up spending another nine months of eating and training with nothing at all to show for it. “Eh, I’ll just eat some stuff and lift some stuff and see what happens.” Specific goals give you something to plan for, and a plan gets shit done.

Decide to lift 3-5 days a week (depending on the program you chose) for 16 weeks straight. No interruptions, no skipped workouts. Decide to eat 3 good meals a day, 7 days a week. No skipping breakfast on a Saturday because you woke up at 2:00pm, no skipping lunch because you don’t feel like making a sandwich, no skipping dinner because you’re not hungry.


#30

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
Thank you! Thats the exact critisism I needed.[/quote]
Cool. Very glad to help.

But I wasn’t being rhetorical. What have you been doing for the last nine months? What has your training and general diet looked like?

Very yes.

Check the nutrition section I wrote about here:

You definitely don’t have to eat like a bodybuilder, 95% clean. If you’re training hard, you can have the occasional pizza, soda, whatever, even if you’re carrying some fat. You’re a growing guy, so give your body what it needs to grow (ample nutrition) and give it a reason to grow (a tough, well-designed training plan).

You said you feel like shit when you eat carbs. Is that all carbs (bread, oatmeal, rice, beans, potatoes), in any amount, at any time of the day? As has been mentioned, protein is importnat but it isn’t the be-all, end-all of building muscle. Your body needs carbs, healthy fats, and total calories in order to recover and grow.

Also, as a general note, understand that this kind of approach…

… is exactly how you can end up spending another nine months of eating and training with nothing at all to show for it. “Eh, I’ll just eat some stuff and lift some stuff and see what happens.” Specific goals give you something to plan for, and a plan gets shit done.

Decide to lift 3-5 days a week (depending on the program you chose) for 16 weeks straight. No interruptions, no skipped workouts. Decide to eat 3 good meals a day, 7 days a week. No skipping breakfast on a Saturday because you woke up at 2:00pm, no skipping lunch because you don’t feel like making a sandwich, no skipping dinner because you’re not hungry.[/quote]

Lifting isnt my main priority in life so sometimes I forget about it and dont even touch a barbell in weeks. Not no more I will make it a priority. Carbs like pasta and bread and diary make me drowsy. Fruit is my main source of carbs not sure if the sugar affects gains but it definately gives me energy.


#31

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
My flat bench max is 165 and my deadlift max is 245 squat max is 225[/quote]
Dude, what have you been doing for the last nine months?

Your strength has dropped across the board and you’ve gone up just a few pounds in bodyweight (so I’m confused about the “dropping 30 pounds in the last year”-thing). Not trying to be a jerk, but whatever you’ve been doing has absolutely not been successful. Your goal is totally fine, but the path you’re trying to take there is all screwed up.

Re-read all the advice you got in that thread, choose any one of the programs I linked to there, and get on it, like starting tomorrow.

Good nutrition and a good program allow for plenty of recovery.

Gotcha, but those exercises weren’t listed in your training plan. Also, not having a rack is a copout. There are plenty of exercise options (step-ups [depending on ceiling height], lunges, RDLs, front squats [one power clean before the set], one-leg work, etc.).

When coaches talk about that, it’s related to things like insulin sensitivity and other factors. However, it’s not relevant to someone in your situation - A young guy whose natural hormones are primed for growth and who’s very tall and relatively-underweight, even if you have some bodyfat.

Losing even more weight, another 10+ pounds based on what you’re saying, will put you even further behind the ball once you start trying to gain more size. Starting ASAP with a focus on building muscle and strength, with smart eating and a well-designed program, is the smart play here.[/quote]

Thank you! Thats the exact critisism I needed. So I should focus on gaining muscle primarly and just forget about losing the bodyfat? You didnt mention anything about diet Im not good with counting calories should I just eat as much “clean foods” as I can get my hands on? (ex. chicken, tuna, steak, salmon, veggies, brown rice, eggs)[/quote]

Read this. If you search around this site enough you can find some awesome stuff for diet and training.

Some of my favorite writers are Chris Colucci, who has already chimed in here, Nate Miyaki, Tim Henriques, and Lee Boyce are some of my favorites. CT, Dan John, Matt Kroc, Ben Bruno, Bret Contreras and many others are also awesome. Just look around.
[/quote]

Im not sure about the unlimited fruit I can eat alot of fruit but will most definately do my reasearch.


#32

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
Lifting isnt my main priority in life[/quote]
This is totally fine. I’m kinda-sorta a professional and I “only” lift three days a week most of the time. Contrary to what some guys will say, lifting is not and should not be the main priority in anybody’s life unless you’re directly making money from it (competitive powerlifting/bodybuilding/whatever).

This is not so fine. Consistency, especially as a younger lifter, is what builds a foundation of muscle and strength. If you ask anyone on this site, “If you could travel back in time and start lifting at any age, knowing what you know now, when would you go?” I’d bet 90% of guys would say in their teens. So much progress can be made in those couple of years if you dial things in.

When in doubt, or if you get the itch to start slacking, remember your goals. If you really do want to hulk out, sometimes you’re going to have to suck it up and head to the gym when you just feel like playing Battlefield.

Good stuff.

Could be a few things (portion size, macro content of the meal, etc.). I’d still try to include things rice and potatoes. They’re cheap, which is always a plus when you don’t buy the groceries, and like I said before, carbs are protein-sparing. Basically, if you provide your body enough carbs and fats, there’s next-to-no chance it’ll want to burn protein/aminos for fuel, so your protein intake gets prioritized for growth.

Also, simply making sure you’re never “just” eating a big pile of carbs is key. A giant bowl of pasta isn’t dinner. A giant bowl of pasta with two chopped up chicken breasts would be. A decent serving of quality protein, plus some healthy fats, should be included every time you eat. Only time you really ditch the healthy fats in a meal is pre, during, and immediately post-workout, when a protein-carb shake is the choice.

EDIT: I re-read your first post, with your sample menu, and saw the rice cakes and mashed potatoes. That’s kinda along the lines. Not perfect, but definitely in the right direction.


#33

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
Lifting isnt my main priority in life[/quote]
This is totally fine. I’m kinda-sorta a professional and I “only” lift three days a week most of the time. Contrary to what some guys will say, lifting is not and should not be the main priority in anybody’s life unless you’re directly making money from it (competitive powerlifting/bodybuilding/whatever).

This is not so fine. Consistency, especially as a younger lifter, is what builds a foundation of muscle and strength. If you ask anyone on this site, “If you could travel back in time and start lifting at any age, knowing what you know now, when would you go?” I’d bet 90% of guys would say in their teens. So much progress can be made in those couple of years if you dial things in.

When in doubt, or if you get the itch to start slacking, remember your goals. If you really do want to hulk out, sometimes you’re going to have to suck it up and head to the gym when you just feel like playing Battlefield.

Good stuff.

Could be a few things (portion size, macro content of the meal, etc.). I’d still try to include things rice and potatoes. They’re cheap, which is always a plus when you don’t buy the groceries, and like I said before, carbs are protein-sparing. Basically, if you provide your body enough carbs and fats, there’s next-to-no chance it’ll want to burn protein/aminos for fuel, so your protein intake gets prioritized for growth.

Also, simply making sure you’re never “just” eating a big pile of carbs is key. A giant bowl of pasta isn’t dinner. A giant bowl of pasta with two chopped up chicken breasts would be. A decent serving of quality protein, plus some healthy fats, should be included every time you eat. Only time you really ditch the healthy fats in a meal is pre, during, and immediately post-workout, when a protein-carb shake is the choice.

EDIT: I re-read your first post, with your sample menu, and saw the rice cakes and mashed potatoes. That’s kinda along the lines. Not perfect, but definitely in the right direction.[/quote]

Consistency is hard for me since lifting becomes a chore. I was looking over the 6 weeks to super hero program and it looks quite intresting would that be a good approach? Carbs make me feel guilty after eating. But ill try to eat some potatoes and brown rice throughout the day.


#34

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
Consistency is hard for me since lifting becomes a chore. I was looking over the 6 weeks to super hero program and it looks quite intresting would that be a good approach? Carbs make me feel guilty after eating. But ill try to eat some potatoes and brown rice throughout the day. [/quote]

What are you trying to accomplish by lifting?


#35

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
Consistency is hard for me since lifting becomes a chore. I was looking over the 6 weeks to super hero program and it looks quite intresting would that be a good approach? Carbs make me feel guilty after eating. But ill try to eat some potatoes and brown rice throughout the day. [/quote]

What are you trying to accomplish by lifting?[/quote]

6 month goal I want to windmill dunk in a basketball my senior year. Long term goal I want to put on muscle look like hulk which is nearly impossible.


#36

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
Consistency is hard for me since lifting becomes a chore.
[/quote]

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
Long term goal I want to put on muscle look like hulk which is nearly impossible.
[/quote]

With your current attitude, I think this that looking like hulk is almost certainly impossible.

CT’s programs are excellent and you will make progress if you follow them. But if you plan on doing 6 weeks to a superhero, then quitting altogether because lifting starts to feel like a chore, perhaps you shouldn’t even bother.

Stop looking for a quick fix. As Chris just told you above, it’s fine if lifting isn’t a “main priority” in your life, but if it becomes such a chore that you’ll go weeks without touching a barbell, it seems quite unlikely that you will progress much. You don’t have to lift 7 days a week, but lifting hard 3 days a week consistently for a few years will get you a lot further than any single 6-week block.


#37

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
Consistency is hard for me since lifting becomes a chore.
[/quote]

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
Long term goal I want to put on muscle look like hulk which is nearly impossible.
[/quote]

With your current attitude, I think this that looking like hulk is almost certainly impossible.

CT’s programs are excellent and you will make progress if you follow them. But if you plan on doing 6 weeks to a superhero, then quitting altogether because lifting starts to feel like a chore, perhaps you shouldn’t even bother.

Stop looking for a quick fix. As Chris just told you above, it’s fine if lifting isn’t a “main priority” in your life, but if it becomes such a chore that you’ll go weeks without touching a barbell, it seems quite unlikely that you will progress much. You don’t have to lift 7 days a week, but lifting hard 3 days a week consistently for a few years will get you a lot further than any single 6-week block.[/quote]

It becomes a chore when it gets repetitive. I chose six weeks to a superhero in particular because its something different then what I been doing. I want to execute that program because it looks challenging and I want to see how my body will react to it. Not because I want a “quick fix” I know muscle doesnt happen overnight Im not expecting it to.

I realize that it shouldnt be a chore. Just last week I expanded my room took out my tv and couch to put my barbell and dumbell in there. It stares at me and laughs at my laziness I will beat small steps at a time.


#38

[quote]Alexis Smash wrote:
I realize that it shouldnt be a chore.[/quote]

Sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn’t. Some people on here absolutely love training, and some absolutely abhor it.

Doing it anyway, no matter how you feel, is what actually gets you results. There’s a life lesson in there too.